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Greed.. the Demise to the US economy


abrungot

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Americans doing whats needed:

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This was despite the fact that demand for gasoline was up just 0.3% compared to the same period last year, according to the EIA report. Gasoline demand usually grows at about 1.5% per year, but the slowing economy and rising prices have led consumers to cut back on driving.

 

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Here's how Oil companies respond?

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Analysts said refiners are making less gas, and that's contributing to the pump price surge, especially as the warm weather driving season approaches.

 

Refineries are running at 83.1% capacity, according to the EIA. They should be running at 89% to 90% this time of year, said Mark Waggoner, president of Excel Futures, a California-based commodities trading firm.

 

From CNN.com

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according to Forbes,IEA projects China will dislodge the US as the worlds top energy consumer soon after 2010.I heard one report yesterday that China's demand for crude was up about 11% in a week.Some BS about ensuring plentiful domestic supplies before the olympics.We're cutting back and China's buying it up,but we're all going to pay, regardless.

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.......and this surprises you how?????? <_<

 

Look at the profits the oil companies made.......ALL of them!!!! :angry:

 

 

All we can do is bend over and take it until we get some politicians in place that have the cajones to fight them. None will......they may promise it, but the legislature won't allow it even if they REALLY tried. :angry:

 

So............................take out stock in vasoline....... :o:blink::unsure:

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Well if it was a level playing field we would have more refineries.The E.P.A. has not allowed a new refinery to be built in years.If they would a bunch cigar chomping clubhouse guys would have already built one and we would not have a shortage.It's the tree hugging democrats that are ruining America!!!!!!!!!

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Here is a current effort to build one. The main problems are lack of investor interest, and opposition from locals. Industry officials caution against overbuilding new plants, say expansion of existing ones are best bet. Strangely, no mention of the EPA.

 

US: No New Refineries in 29 Years

 

by Jad Mouawad, New York Times

May 9th, 2005

 

About 100 miles southwest of Phoenix, in a remote patch off Interstate 8, Glenn McGinnis is seeking to do something that has not been done for 29 years in the United States. He is trying to build an oil refinery.

 

Part of his job is to persuade local officials and residents to allow a 150,000-barrel-a-day refinery in their backyard - no small task. Another is to find investors ready to risk $2.5 billion in a volatile industry. So far, the effort has consumed six years and $30 million, with precious little to show for it.

 

Oil industry analysts and trade organizations like the American Petroleum Institute say they know of no one else doing the same thing.

 

Even so, Mr. McGinnis - an industry veteran who joined Arizona Clean Fuels last year as chief executive to give the project more heft against long odds - cleared a significant hurdle recently when Arizona awarded him a crucial emissions permit. Still ahead are countless rounds of negotiations with local, state and federal agencies to secure dozens more permits.

 

Meanwhile, the 1,400-acre site picked for the refinery, an old citrus grove near the Mexican border, remains empty, a sign of why the United States is now grappling with an acute shortage of plants that can refine the more than 20 million of barrels of crude oil that the country consumes every day.

 

The last refinery to be completed in the United States was in 1976, and Mr. McGinnis knows all too well that community and political opposition squashed earlier projects. His proposed refinery in Arizona has already been forced away from its original site near Phoenix, in 2003, after the state considered expanding the city's clean-air limits.

 

But times may be changing, said Mr. McGinnis, an oil business veteran of 33 years who has run refineries in the United States and Aruba.

 

"The moon and the stars have aligned for us," he said, speaking on his cellphone between discussing crude oil supplies with Mexico's state oil company. "We're halfway through, and we still have a lot of work."

 

Long considered the ugly duckling of the oil industry, the refining business is now in the spotlight as Americans complain about sticker shock at the gasoline pumps and higher energy prices over all.

 

President Bush has taken notice. Last month, Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, visiting the president at his Texas ranch on April 25, chided him with the message that his country could send more oil, but the United States would not have the ability to refine it. Soon afterward, Mr. Bush offered to provide closed military bases for new refineries.

 

Over the last quarter-century, the number of refineries in the United States dropped to 149, less than half the number in 1981. Because companies have upgraded and expanded their aging operations, refining capacity during that time period shrank only 10 percent from its peak of 18.6 million barrels a day. At the same time, gasoline consumption has risen by 45 percent.

 

But in the last two years, the refining business has experienced a revival of sorts, leading some refiners to predict they have entered an age of higher margins and better returns. Not everyone agrees, but for the first time in a long time the industry is more confident about itself. Even with better economics, however, it is still tough to build a refinery from scratch. Mr. McGinnis says he is not afraid of the challenge. He and his staff work in a small office in Phoenix, mostly consumed these days with securing permits and looking for financial backing.

 

The next step is to complete an environmental impact statement for the federal Bureau of Land Management. That will include an assessment of the refinery's impact on underground water sources and endangered species, as well as its effect on any Native American burial grounds.

 

After that, the project needs to get the site's zoning changed by Yuma County from agricultural to heavy industrial; Arizona's preservation office needs to be convinced that the refinery does not trample on any ancient historic site or trail; and finally, the project must apply for a presidential permit, which is issued by the State Department, to allow the crossing of a 200-mile pipeline into Mexico.

 

The business of turning crude oil into gasoline, jet fuel or heating oil has rarely been a lucrative proposition. It has dismal profit margins compared with its more glamorous cousin, exploration. It is highly cyclical and fairly unpredictable, because demand for gasoline swings sharply by season. And because of low oil prices over the past decades, refiners have been forced into cutthroat competition that has driven many of the smaller refiners out of business.

 

More refining capacity will almost certainly be needed. Gasoline demand is forecast to rise 39 percent by 2025, to 12.9 million barrels a day, up from today's 9.3 million barrels, according to a long-term outlook by the Energy Information Administration. By then, gasoline alone will account for nearly half the crude oil consumed in the United States.

 

By contrast, domestic refining capacity is expected to grow only by 0.8 percent from 2005 to 2007, slightly less than the 0.9 percent increase registered between 1998 and 2004, according to Jacques Rousseau, an oil analyst with the investment banker Friedman, Billings, Ramsey.

 

Jay Saunders, who follows oil companies for Deutsche Bank, said that the increase in refining margins would lead to increased capacity. "The industry is definitely going to overbuild," he said, "they have in the past and they will in the future."

 

Others caution that the industry should be wary of recreating a glut of capacity that would cause profit margins to sink again. "Refining has been a cyclical business for a long time," said Bill Hauschildt, the vice president for global refining with ChevronTexaco. "In the past few years, there's been much more discipline in the market for not overbuilding capacity."

 

Part of the issue, according to refiners, is that substantial investments were made over the last decade to lower carbon emissions and meet low-sulfur fuels regulations. The American Petroleum Institute estimates the industry invested $47 billion on such investments. More investments will be needed through 2007 to clean up gasoline and diesel.

 

"This is going to cost you money and the only thing you will get is cleaner air and less emissions - which are good - but no new capacity," said Edward H. Murphy, the industry group's general downstream sector manager.

 

"What refiners need are clear guidance on what's permissible and what is not if they want to expand," Mr. Murphy said. "So far, that has not been very clear."

 

To make up for the domestic shortfall, gasoline imports from Europe and South America have been rising in recent years. Gasoline imports now account for nearly 10 percent of domestic consumption and have exceeded a million barrels a day on average throughout April.

 

But even as the United States grows more reliant on foreign gasoline, it will face mounting competition from other buyers where demand is similarly growing, like China and India. "More competition means imports might become more expensive," said Joanne Shore, an analyst with the government's Energy Information Administration.

 

For Bob Slaughter, the president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association, the industry's main trade group, "The question now is to keep the growth in imports at a reasonable level." He expects additional capacity will come from expansion of existing projects and not from the construction of new refineries like the one in Arizona.

 

Even if all goes to plan and investors are found, Mr. McGinnis's envisioned refinery will not be ready before late 2009.

 

The prospect of a new employer, 3,000 construction jobs and 600 permanent posts has done a lot to outweigh concerns over the project, said John Nussbaumer, the mayor of Wellton, a city of 1,900 people about 20 miles from the refinery site.

 

"Of course I am concerned about the effects on the environment," he said. "Would I rather see it somewhere else? Yes. Would I oppose it at this time? No. It's been too long since a new refinery was built in the United States. Anything we can do to reduce our dependency on the Middle East is a good thing."

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Then they could all be running at 70% instead of 83.

Instead of the demand being higher than the supply.The supply would be higher than the demand.Supply and demand is what America was built on.The E.P.A. only allowing a handfull of suppliers is screwing up the demand.

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Well if it was a level playing field we would have more refineries.The E.P.A. has not allowed a new refinery to be built in years.If they would a bunch cigar chomping clubhouse guys would have already built one and we would not have a shortage.It's the tree hugging democrats that are ruining America!!!!!!!!!

Everything I hear/read points to the huge economic expansion in China, creating a demand for transportation vehicles and the needed petroleum products to go with the vehicles. Apparently, demand for Chinese manufactured goods has vastly increased primarily because of free$$ trade???. So, cheaper priced goods, but much higher energy costs, and less!! jobs!!! in the USA. I know it is easy to blame, as you call them,"tree hugging democrats", but the power is vastly elsewhere. Having lived in Houston for almost 60 years, I have seen the results of cleaner air to breathe, and I am thankful that it changed from the 60s. A local radio personality used to mention, jokingly, that there must be a lot of automobile traffic on the east side of Houston near the ship channel and refineries causing heavy air pollution, when it could be seen from miles away. Refineries are just like sewer treatment plants, everyone knows we need them, but no one wants one near their home and/or workplace. And, by the way, I don't think we can survive without trees! Especially near chemical plants and refineries!!!

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Go ahead blame it on the demacrats, we gave the reps a chance and what did we get? a war that we will never get out of, debt in the trillions, americans losing thier homes at a record rate, the world hates us, china owns us, we will never see 3.00 gas again and we,ve lost more jobs than in the 3 years before the depression, we have alfred E newman for a presadent, and the silent ceo of halliburtn for a vice pres, carl rove who is( the devel incarnated ) out of the public eye but in the ear of everyone at the white house. if you think any of these people that i,m talking about are going to help any of us you are are not reading the paper. i don,t have the answers but a monkey can tell this sh,t ain,t working. i don,t care who you vote for just don,t vote for anybody you have already voted for. now iv,e been wanting to say this for a long time thanks for listening with love in my heart for my country,,,,,,,,,,leland harry truman waddell

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lol is the glass half full or half empty?....think about it then read waddy's post again....and then go online and look up who is actually responsible for what has happened.It's alot easier and quicker to repeat talking points(cover of a book)than it is to actually repeat everything on the pages.

 

It's kind of like blaming all of the negative things happening in NA$CAR on Brian France.He was put in charge of a runaway train.I just hope he makes the right decisions when it comes to righting the sinking ship.Our current President had the economy Presidential dreams were made of.So much so,that it took four years of the most expensive war ever before it started to take it's toll.

 

People never remember your success' as much as they do your failures.

 

Largest stock market ever.

Lowest unemployment ever.

Lowest inflation ever.

Greatest economic growth ever.

Largest budget for stem cell research ever(just not embrionic)

Safest the country has ever been.(hard to stomach for Bush bashers I know but it's true)

 

Yes,alot of that is turning around,but if not for the strong economy the tax cuts created,it would have been alot sooner than four years before life got hard again.

 

If you really really think the grass will be greener on the other side of the fence,just try and not complain as taxes increases take as big a bite out of your wallet as the gas prices are.

 

This is not a paid political add because....uh...well...the man is a lame duck....why would I get paid to say this crap?...lmao :lol:

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AINT NUTTEN LIKE A COWARD WHO STANDS BACK AND MOUTHS OFF ..AND WHEN THE FIGHT STARTS RUN.S LIKE HELL CRYING FOR MAMMA ..... HAS A DEMOCRATIC RING TO IT DONT IT ..... MY POINT IS ..DEMOS .VOTED FOR THE WAR ..ASLONG AS IT WAS GOING GOOD .THEY DIDNT CRY ..CRAP HAPPEN AND WALLA .I DIDNT VOTE FOR THIS ..THEY LIED ..CLINTON RING A BELL ....... MAYBE WE SHOULDNT BE FIGHTING A WAR .WISHED IT WAS OVER OR BETTER YET NOT EVEN STARTED ...BUSH REALLY DIDNT HAVE MUCH OF A CHANCE TO BE THE PRESIDENT HE MOST PROBABLY WANTED TO BE .... WHO KNOWS WHAT THIS COUNTRY WOULD BE LIKE IF HE DIDNT GO OVER THERE AND START KICKING BUTT ...I BELIEVE CLINTON DID ALITTLE SPANK .SENT A COUPLE OF BOMBS OVER TO BIN LADEN . WOW ..DID ALOT OF GOOD ..HE SENT FOUR AIRPLANES BACK AT US ..OUR PLANES .... THIS BS GOES BOTH WAYS ..I ALWAYS HAVE A GOOD LAUGH WHEN SOMETHING COMES UP ..ONE OR ALLL .SAY ONE THING .......I HAVE A PLAN ....WELL SO DO I ..I WONT VOTE FOR NONE OF THE ABOVE . ILL WRITE IN NICK HOLT .....

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Go ahead blame it on the demacrats, we gave the reps a chance and what did we get? a war that we will never get out of, debt in the trillions, americans losing thier homes at a record rate, the world hates us, china owns us, we will never see 3.00 gas again and we,ve lost more jobs than in the 3 years before the depression, we have alfred E newman for a presadent, and the silent ceo of halliburtn for a vice pres, carl rove who is( the devel incarnated ) out of the public eye but in the ear of everyone at the white house. if you think any of these people that i,m talking about are going to help any of us you are are not reading the paper. i don,t have the answers but a monkey can tell this sh,t ain,t working. i don,t care who you vote for just don,t vote for anybody you have already voted for. now iv,e been wanting to say this for a long time thanks for listening with love in my heart for my country,,,,,,,,,,leland harry truman waddell

It's O.K.!!!I really would'nt expect a democrat to understand!!!!! ;)

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Here is a current effort to build one. The main problems are lack of investor interest, and opposition from locals. Industry officials caution against overbuilding new plants, say expansion of existing ones are best bet. Strangely, no mention of the EPA.

 

US: No New Refineries in 29 Years

 

by Jad Mouawad, New York Times

May 9th, 2005

 

Mr. McGinnis - an industry veteran who joined Arizona Clean Fuels last year as chief executive to give the project more heft against long odds - cleared a significant hurdle recently when Arizona awarded him a crucial emissions permit. Still ahead are countless rounds of negotiations with local, state and federal agencies to secure dozens more permits.

 

The next step is to complete an environmental impact statement for the federal Bureau of Land Management. That will include an assessment of the refinery's impact on underground water sources and endangered species, as well as its effect on any Native American burial grounds.

 

After that, the project needs to get the site's zoning changed by Yuma County from agricultural to heavy industrial; Arizona's preservation office needs to be convinced that the refinery does not trample on any ancient historic site or trail; and finally, the project must apply for a presidential permit, which is issued by the State Department, to allow the crossing of a 200-mile pipeline into Mexico.

 

Sounds like a bunch of tree hugging B.S. to me!!!!!!!!! :blink:

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Americans are the most spoiled people on the planet. We all gripe when we don't have a perfect world but in comparison to the rest of the planet we have the most and best of everything. Ever check gas prices in the rest of the world? There is a reason most countries walk and ride bikes and at best drive little rice burners till the wheels fall off. Food prices are more expensive everywhere, and we have more of it than we can consume!

 

No politician or party makes the United States the superpower that it is and will remain. Our free way of life is what makes us different from the rest of the world.

 

Economy ebbs and flows just like everything else in life. Anyone remember the Jimmy Carter days!! That democrat was supposed to be the savior! Thats a laugh!! If you think voting in a democrat will make any difference I have some oceanfront property in Iowa I would like you to look at.

 

I wouldn't want to live anywhere else in the world and I'm thankful every day for our way of life and most other people would love nothing more than to have it as good as we do. Jealousy is the reason we are hated so much everywhere else. They all know we have it better than the rest of the world.

 

Im off my pulpit now!!

 

One more thing,

 

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

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I regret posting an opinion on this site, strickly because it's not the right venue for political discussion. However, in the correct circumstance, I'll mouth off standing back, forward, and upside down, but not here. In any event, hopefully all of the racers have a great season with minimal disappointments. That goes for the speedways as well.

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