Rules for classes at new track in Lewisville

[Lucky161]

Is this the correct place to post a discussion of rules for the new track going in? If not please move it where it goes.

 

Assuming all goes well and I do have my fingers and toes crossed, the Lewisville track is supposed to open for the 2008 season.

Wonder what they have in mind for classes?

I hope they don't try to run more than 3 classes in one night, preferably just 2 in my opinion.

I have a reputation for being a spendthrift when it comes to racing and I think it's probably deserved. My motto is "If it costs more and doesn't make racing better or safer, then we don't need it."

I have a friend who although is younger than me has more actual track time and experience in some areas even though we both grew up around racing.

 

He says that street stocks should run DOT tires and no weight jacks. I think they should be allowed 7" inch racing retreads and weight jacks. I am not sure how long it's been since he ran street stocks if ever or if he ever ran them on pavement. But my experience was that when we had to run DOT tires, we spent all our time and money trying to find tires that were soft and reliable. Obviously that is at least somewhat conflicting. But when we could all run the 7" Hoosier retread cheater slick, our cars all handled better and a set would last all season running twice a week. Also when the guys from the dirt track showed up, we wiped them every time because they didn't have weight jacks and could hardly get around the track. They would wear out tires in a single night, be in the way, cause wrecks and never be competitive even though some had more powerful engines than we had. Anyone else have thoughts about this?

 

We also were allowed a holley 500 2 bbl and it worked well. To me that was better than people trying to modify their rochesters etc. and since ford and mopar offered holleys originally, some of them started out with a better carb.

 

Growing up in DFW, I never saw a competitive Ford race car at any local track. When I moved to Lubbock I saw several After asking around, I found out that Fords had engines that sat farther foward than Chevys and that was why they wouldn't run good around here. Out there they let everyone put their engine where the front plug was even with the top ball joint and sure enough the Fords and Chevys were much more equal. I am a Chevy guy, but I think it's good to have other makes running if reasonably possible.

[Lucky161]

Concerning late models.

 

There are presently very few late model pavement cars in this area, so this class is almost going to have to start from scratch. I understand the idea of wanting cars from the Austin, SA and Houston area to run here, but I wonder if they are running too pricey a car for a track just starting out. How many of those guys are going to come up here week in and week out. I am afraid if the cars are too expensive it will take to long for the DFW area to come up with a good field of cars. It would not be a good thing in my opinion if people came out and saw an anemic field of cars especially for several weeks or all season.

 

The best short track pavement late models I remember were the ones when Howe cars 1st and 2nd generation were available but not widely in use and only a handful of guys had Baker engines. My thinking is that something like this would be easier to build on at least to start. I have been reading about guys running engines in the $10-20K range. That worries me. I did a little shopping online the other day and found a place that offered 383 complete engines for $3000. Now correct me if I am wrong but on alchohol those engines ought to put out 475-500 hp and that ought to provide a lot of umph for a late model class.

 

I also read about fan cooled brakes and cambered rear ends. Hopefully not. Those would violate my motto (see above).

 

Your thoughts?

[97car]

They are going to have to look at what is in the area to draw from and who to work with. I would suggest IMCA type classes such as Hobby,I-stock,Mods or limited mods, that way the guys can run dirt and asphalt in the area going asphalt only rules obviously does not work,look at the asphalt tracks that are currently in the state now,they have no where near the count the dirt tracks have. For late models maybe get TSRS up there for some races as well as ASA and correct me if I am wrong USLMA as well. A few USAC races and maybe a GN race like THR. If they get enough late models in the area then they could consider the expense of running them. First the track has to be built.

[shanler]

I agree on not using the DOT tires in street stock. The track tire at altus is the Towel City 8in retread slick. They last the whole season, there cheaper than racing slicks(good year,hoosiers, etc.) and perform much better than any DOT tire. Towel City also makes a treaded version of this tire. In super stock they use an 8" racing slick that are the good year and hoosier racing caps from towel city. They cost less than new tires and they last at least twice as long. This cuts everyone's tire bill in half and I haven't heard anyone complain about that! The track can even be the dealer and make a little selling the tires.

[Lucky161]

I agree on not using the DOT tires in street stock. The track tire at altus is the Towel City 8in retread slick. They last the whole season, there cheaper than racing slicks(good year,hoosiers, etc.) and perform much better than any DOT tire. Towel City also makes a treaded version of this tire. In super stock they use an 8" racing slick that are the good year and hoosier racing caps from towel city. They cost less than new tires and they last at least twice as long. This cuts everyone's tire bill in half and I haven't heard anyone complain about that! The track can even be the dealer and make a little selling the tires.

 

The Hoosier tire we used was the treaded one, although we were allowed to grandfather any slick ones we had. Turns out the treaded ones were actually faster than the slicks anyway and lasted longer too. We were beginning to get heat problems with the slicks and apparently the grooves in the treaded one took care of that.

 

Which track are they running in Altus these days, the short original one or the big one across the street?

 

They are going to have to look at what is in the area to draw from and who to work with. I would suggest IMCA type classes such as Hobby,I-stock,Mods or limited mods, that way the guys can run dirt and asphalt in the area going asphalt only rules obviously does not work,look at the asphalt tracks that are currently in the state now,they have no where near the count the dirt tracks have. For late models maybe get TSRS up there for some races as well as ASA and correct me if I am wrong USLMA as well. A few USAC races and maybe a GN race like THR. If they get enough late models in the area then they could consider the expense of running them. First the track has to be built.

 

I agree that the IMCA type cars are very plentiful around here, particularly the mods and pro mods. But a lot of tracks are still running non IMCA type street stocks.

 

As for traveling shows, I am certainly hoping they can attract ASA and perhaps USAC dirt champs or sprints and I would love for them to get some kind of supermodified show. If they have the capacity ARCA would be a nice deal too. After all Bristol didn't start out with 135,000 per show.

[texasprd]

...I hope they don't try to run more than 3 classes in one night...

 

... I think it's good to have other makes running if reasonably possible.

 

Lucky161,

 

From a fan's perspective, I think you are absolutely right on both counts. I think 3 classes is about right - a track should have entry-level, intermediate, top-level. I believe more than three classes leads to low car counts in each class and a longer, less interesting show - longer due to more classes that have to have their three-car heat races and 7-car features and less-interesting for the low counts in each class & race as I just mentioned.

 

On edit: Not to mention the purse fragmentation, which makes it harder for the racers to keep racing...

[Racer02]

They still run at the little track in Altus, the big track is closed permanently. The retread tire rule has really worked well for the racers because they work well and they last in both street and super stock classes. I agree on 3-4 classes of cars max and keeping the motor rules simple and affordable for the street/super classes. (Ex.maybe 9 or 9.5 to 1 compression) Just a thought because its easy to check/enforce.

[97car]

I think the guys that ran at Longhorn Speedway in Austin can fill you in on those recaps they ran I think were the same company, I don't remember if I heard good or bad about them,but they need to be 1/2 the price of a new tire to make them worth it. I know on dirt recaps were not reliable

[RodneyRodriguez]

the Towel City did did indeed last, thinking back those we about $70.00 a tire. we never had trouble with them, those were not treaded.

[CommonSenseRacing]

I hope they don't try to run more than 3 classes in one night, preferably just 2 in my opinion.

 

I don’t believe two classes, even 3 is enough. There are a lot of cars sitting in peoples garages up on jack stands, so it would be wise to take into consideration this factor in writing rules for a new track.

 

5 classes:

 

1. Allison Legacy, Legends, Thunder Roasters are basically the same type of class, store bought, very limited as to what you are allowed to do to them (RULE SPECIFIC). The track needs to pick one and promote a single ¾ scale division. That doesn’t mean they can’t have special races or big race for the other ¾ scale cars, just that on a weekly basis there needs to be only one division dedicate to this type of car. The TSP cars are a touring series, that is why I didn’t group them in with the other ¾ scale cars.

2. An weekly entry level division, bomber, pure stock, what ever you want to call it. 108 inch wheel base car that can be upgraded when the driver wants to move to the next level.

3. Hobby stock, adds a little more.

4. Street Stock, adds even more to the same car.(personal opinion, Trucks and SS should merge, just like THR did with there two divisions)

5. Modified, break out the check book.

6. Late Model, empty out the kids collage fund.

 

Also, spectator drags, everyone who signs up, then line the cars up in the infield during intermission, two at a time, one lap, elimination rounds. Winner gets a trophy, this gets more people involved. The next step is Enduros on Sunday, truly entry level, this has hooked more people into circle track racing than anything else I’ve seen. Then there is the Demolition Derby and all the other attractions that should be utilized to get people into the front gate. The races are what determine whether people come back, the HOOK gets them there in the first place.

 

With so many alternatives for people to spend their entertainment dollars, creativity is a must in today’s business world.

 

JMO

[Racer02]

Good points. What I've seen some tracks do that run five classes is alternate giving different classes a night off so the show doesn't run sooooo long for the fans. Also, I would like the bomber, hobby class to be the same class. This increases car count for that class and at alot of tracks its the most entertaining class of cars to watch. Enduros on sundays is a great idea about once a month. Those enduro guys end up running in the bomber class.

[jracer98]

It's my understanding that the main fellows involved in this deal are Legends car folks.

Jay

[Lucky161]

I hope they don't try to run more than 3 classes in one night, preferably just 2 in my opinion.

 

I don’t believe two classes, even 3 is enough. There are a lot of cars sitting in peoples garages up on jack stands, so it would be wise to take into consideration this factor in writing rules for a new track.

 

I see your points but I still disagree. Want them to run 6 classes? Ok run them 2 or 3 nights a week then. Which wouldn't be a bad idea if all of the classes have enough cars. In fact, in my daydream, I want to run 6 nights a week, but no more than 2 classes per night.

 

5 classes:

 

1. Allison Legacy, Legends, Thunder Roasters are basically the same type of class, store bought, very limited as to what you are allowed to do to them (RULE SPECIFIC). The track needs to pick one and promote a single ¾ scale division. That doesn’t mean they can’t have special races or big race for the other ¾ scale cars, just that on a weekly basis there needs to be only one division dedicate to this type of car. The TSP cars are a touring series, that is why I didn’t group them in with the other ¾ scale cars.

 

After reading a post on down the line, I'll probably not make friends and influence people with my opinion here, but I'll give it anyway. I don't like them. Sure they are pretty and I'd love to have a Thunder Roadster personally. And I'll bet they're a hoot to drive. But they have 4 cyl motorcycle engines! YUK! Real race cars have big V8s. Prejudiced? Can't think of a better word, but it is what it is. And these cars are VERY expensive. A lot of late models don't have that much money in them. If I could afford one of those, I'd be in a late model. They may not look as nice up close, but dwarf cars are a much better value if you ask me. And they already race them weekly at TMS. Problem with TMS is the tracks are too short for even street stocks. A track just starting out doesn't need two classes of cars in the $15K range and if that post I mentioned is correct, then it looks like late models will be the class sitting out. Not acceptable to me.

 

2. An weekly entry level division, bomber, pure stock, what ever you want to call it. 108 inch wheel base car that can be upgraded when the driver wants to move to the next level.

 

Check.

3. Hobby stock, adds a little more.

4. Street Stock, adds even more to the same car.(personal opinion, Trucks and SS should merge, just like THR did with there two divisions)

 

3 and 4 combined might be ok. Separate if they both have enough cars, but if that's the case, move it to a different night. Isn't that basically what is being done combining the RR and Street Stocks at some tracks now?

5. Modified, break out the check book.

 

Probably, but why not their own night?

 

6. Late Model, empty out the kids collage fund.

 

Well there already seems to be plenty of discussion on costs and what to do about them, but I personally think late models are an important class for a track like this. Perhaps not weekly at first, but they still should run them and hopefully weekly at first.

 

Also, spectator drags, everyone who signs up, then line the cars up in the infield during intermission, two at a time, one lap, elimination rounds. Winner gets a trophy, this gets more people involved. The next step is Enduros on Sunday, truly entry level, this has hooked more people into circle track racing than anything else I’ve seen. Then there is the Demolition Derby and all the other attractions that should be utilized to get people into the front gate. The races are what determine whether people come back, the HOOK gets them there in the first place.

 

I don't have a big problem with spectator drags, but I am not so sure how much value they create. But I wouldn't just dismiss them entirely. I am not sure if you could do a weekly enduro, but monthly should be no problem and I would be for that, although not my cup of tea either. Personally I never stay for demo derbys anymore. My opinion, if you've seen one you've seen them all and I've seen WAY more than one. But I would have them if it was up to me. I would prefer to have the race cars displayed as much as possible both in parking lot and mall car shows and just at individual businesses and even vacant lots. The promoter should be furnishing free tickets for the racers to give out to those that express interest. They should have some literature to hand out to potential fans, racers and sponsors, telling what is going on, what it cost to participate etc.

 

With so many alternatives for people to spend their entertainment dollars, creativity is a must in today’s business world.

 

Sure it is. I think I've added some to your list that meet that criteria.

 

JMO

 

 

Good points. What I've seen some tracks do that run five classes is alternate giving different classes a night off so the show doesn't run sooooo long for the fans. Also, I would like the bomber, hobby class to be the same class. This increases car count for that class and at alot of tracks its the most entertaining class of cars to watch. Enduros on sundays is a great idea about once a month. Those enduro guys end up running in the bomber class.

 

I would say at least most of this makes sense to me.

 

 

It's my understanding that the main fellows involved in this deal are Legends car folks.

Jay

 

Of course this is just my opinion, but this isn't the best news I've heard all day. See above as to my opinions about Legends cars. And just because that is where their interests lie or where it began does not mean they can't still be planning on the more traditional classes too. Hopefully not on the same night.

[Crazyhorse]

most guys are use to 'buying' spec cars.......if it they had to actually built one to race they would find a less effortless hobby. jmo of course , but i know i got spoiled with the 'built it from a box' method.

[jracer98]

You misunderstood. What I am saying is that I believe some of the people involved with buying the land and building the track have raced Legends cars. I did not mean (nor do I think) that the track will be used exclusively for Legends cars.

 

Jay

[Lucky161]

You misunderstood. What I am saying is that I believe some of the people involved with buying the land and building the track have raced Legends cars. I did not mean (nor do I think) that the track will be used exclusively for Legends cars.

 

Jay

 

Actually that's the way I understood you. Not that they would for sure, just that it might be what was near and dear to them. Hopefully, they will be able to accomodate both.