"AFFORDABLE V-8 STOCKCAR RACING"

[arts22]

Landlord,

I live 75 miles south of Dallas on I45. My closest track is HMP and its 2.5 to 3 hr drive... From what Im understanding this will be a traveling series, so theres no money saved in that matter...

 

 

Slammer00, noone is trying to slam you or your ideas, it just doesnt make since....

 

On the tranny, the trucks ran the turbo350 on the road course at TMS and it worked fine...

 

JMO, its a bad idea. This will just cause lower counts in the classes that exist. If your really wanting to help asphalt racin, then build on something that is already here. You may not make the money or have your own empire, but who to say this class will make it thru 2007... AND 10 people telling you there in, doesnt count until the car is paid for... How many cars are out there right now and why not bring one to THR and show case it at the spectacular?

[thumper]

Landlord,I appreciate your ideas of an affordable V8 class.Your spec car however is not the answer I dont think.Whenever you have spoec parts there is always a lot of politics involved,like who will be the provider.Look at IMCA and the tire deal between American Racer and Hooser.And also what started out to be a class for the budget racer became a top level series.20K for a competetive car and almost double that for a seasons expenses.So along comes the Limited Modified class.What happens?The same hi dollar teams in modifieds now add a limited to use for testing and track time so they take all the top prizes now.Where does the budget racer fit?In the back of the pack.

A very wise promoter/track owner once told me "Racing is expensive and I am not going to let you spend any more than you have to in order to race here".He did away with all the expensive cars and put everyone on street tires.His top class was called Street Stocks and was very restricted on what was allowed as modifications.He paid the same as other tracks paid modifieds.His largest class was one a lot of people scoffed at and that was a Bomer class made of metric cars.It prooved to be an extreamly popular and exciting class.Even his ministocks were told to take off the slicks and use street tires.The result of all this was the cars were only as fast as the tires and the driver.Spending lots of money on special parts did not do much.A top car in the top class was worth about 5-6K.The racing was really exciting,like watching bull riders racing an oval.Like racing was in the beginning.His name is Donnie Yocum and owns CC Speedway.His people have vowed toet return to his philosiphy for him due to health concerns he is experiencing.

My point is Science and evolution has made us think we need the best and newest designs to create a sellable and exciting show.NASCAR shows us what could be if money is no object.NASCAR is the biggest enemy of local SAT nite racing.Everybodys purse is below what it takes to run any series.My advise to you would be to take a class like Super Streets or Bomers and create a SHOW with them that promoters would pay for and people would want to see.Dress them up,wild paint jobs,personalities,good guys and bad guys,good bad and ugly. Heros and villans.Imaginary characters.Touching stories..You dont need expensive cars or even spec cars.The late models,trucks etc already have that department and are great to have as a traveling show.Everyday they become boring like all the other cars become to the average spectator.Racing does not need another class of cars or more rules,it needs a PROMOTER or two.Get some money going in a truly inexpensive class of cars and it will flourish.What would you rather watch,30 bomers duking it out for 50 laps or a dozen LM following each other for 100 laps.As a driver which would you rather be in?Pay the cheap cars like they were expensive cars and be creative making races for them.Put the race in the drivers hands.Its not that hard.LMO and I dont know anything anyway. Thumper.

[Ford27]

I think its great someone is so excited about promoteing a new asphalt class and it has possibilities for new or upgrading drivers from sportsmans and such,but i think this falls into the main pet peeve of mine which is "lets scrap the expensive lm crap and start from scratch". Fans want late model car counts up and so do I. The best fix is to consolidate the rules so tsrs and sas and hmp can run together(I know easier said than done) but half the fun of lm is trying to get them to go faster than the other guy.I ve always thought the best cost saveing approch, while maintaining the fun of using your brain to make it faster was cost limits. run any shock you want as long as the msrp was no more than say 150.00. run any tranny you want but you cant spend more than 1500. need a brake caliper you got 200.00 and so on(examples only dont yell at me 150 is to much for a shock!) at least then we can have the fun of researching and decideing what we think we'll get the best bang for the buck. heres your car go drive dont sound like much fun. jmo

[Slammer 00]

I race a totally spec car and I have a blast racing it. I want to move up into a V8 spec car and one does not exist. We do not want to hurt the LM leagues or car counts. This league is for the guy who does not want to spend a lot of money and a lot of his spare time working on the car. Nothing a matter with spending a lot of money on your motor, shocks and brakes, etc. This league was not dreamed up to hurt any league. It was dreamed up because there are racers out there that want this kind of car!!!

 

If this will help I will start each post with LM owners do not read. LOL

[BowTie]

You said it thumper

 

thats what I agree with too.

[landlord]

ford27-You have some good ideas.Has any class ever tried claimer motor rules?If enforced they do work.The UMP class has used this rule for years and flurished.They Nationalized their rules and in less than15 years will be on National television in the 2007 season.Why can't everyone be open minded and at least look around at what the successful orginazations are doing.You can buy a brand new UMP car that is competitive really cheap.All the parts are spec and can be bought off the shelf.The cam can have only so much lift and the motor can only pump so much volume.If that still don't catch the cheater you have the option of claiming the guys motor.

[97car]

I have a question,has anybody tried a 750 carb on the 602 engine to see if that would bring it up equal with the 604 engine in the horsepower department and considered combining the 2 late model classes at HMP? I have not seen either one of them run yet,and yes I know there is tire size difference also. I think that and the rev limiter is the big key,mainly the rev limiter at 6500.

[rebelracewriter]

landlord/slammer......ok my perspective;

First off you keep refering to UMP being a "affordable" dirt class. I say B/S. When I lived in Houston there were 40 mods each at the two tracks running at the time. Now you're lucky to have 40 left overall. WHY? Simple, guys running 15-20K motors have scared others away or sent them packing to the limited mod class. UMP claim rules???? There's the biggest joke of the entire 4 page thread. In my ten years in Houston I NEVER saw anyone claim. Now if you want to refer to IMCA claim rules, I would have agreed until this year when IMCA added the swap option(like UMP) and claims dropped consideribily!! SWAP DOESN'T WORK!

Second, as others have already related, there simply are already far too many classes, and too few sponsors to support splitting things up even more. Pavement racing is on a downswing, mostly due to economics and those with personal issues, until this trend changes it will be on shaky ground and trying to add another class would only hurt, what's already bleeding badly.

Finally, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying you guys have a bad idea. It's just the wrong time and wrong place to be trying to do it. Let's fix what we've got first and get things going the other direction, then maybe..... Of course in order to do this ALL of the tracks have to WILLING to compromise and WORK TOGETHER. Otherwise we're all just p!$$!ng up a rope.

 

JMHO

[speed demon 7]

Could someone please explain to me what the difference between a Late Model and a Nascar Chassis is. I was assuming they are the same. didn't realize Nascar was a Stockcar and what you guys run are Late Models. When I think of STOCK CARS, I think of our Hobby Stocks and Street Stocks, because we are using stock components in stock locations on a stock frame? I am truely confused to how NASCAR style is different from Late Model. Oh, and doesn't a NASCAR chassis have a truck arm suspension?

[racetrackfan]

now the Super LM are allowed in the Pro LM class with a 200 pound penalty,but 700 more RPM.Thats like taking a knife to a gun fight and hard to compete with.

now the Super LM are allowed in the Pro LM class with a 200 pound penalty,but 700 more RPM.Thats like taking a knife to a gun fight and hard to compete with.

 

 

 

WHICH IS NOT RIGHT I DONT CARE WHAT THE REASON IS

[landlord]

landlord/slammer......ok my perspective;

First off you keep refering to UMP being a "affordable" dirt class. I say B/S. When I lived in Houston there were 40 mods each at the two tracks running at the time. Now you're lucky to have 40 left overall. WHY? Simple, guys running 15-20K motors have scared others away or sent them packing to the limited mod class. UMP claim rules???? There's the biggest joke of the entire 4 page thread. In my ten years in Houston I NEVER saw anyone claim. Now if you want to refer to IMCA claim rules, I would have agreed until this year when IMCA added the swap option(like UMP) and claims dropped consideribily!! SWAP DOESN'T WORK!

Second, as others have already related, there simply are already far too many classes, and too few sponsors to support splitting things up even more. Pavement racing is on a downswing, mostly due to economics and those with personal issues, until this trend changes it will be on shaky ground and trying to add another class would only hurt, what's already bleeding badly.

Finally, don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying you guys have a bad idea. It's just the wrong time and wrong place to be trying to do it. Let's fix what we've got first and get things going the other direction, then maybe..... Of course in order to do this ALL of the tracks have to WILLING to compromise and WORK TOGETHER. Otherwise we're all just p!$$!ng up a rope.

 

JMHO

Come to Willis this weekend(north Houston off 45)You WILL see some motors claimed.The limited UMP class is where the guys go that don't want to spend alot of money.That is the class I am talking about.But even in the modified UMP class you can claim a motor and if the racer refuses the car(not the driver)gets black balled for a year from all UMP events nationwide.No sytem is full proof!!!!

[Sonic Racing]

I think the sportsman LM class is dead at HMP anyway. The big motors are surely going to go away as well in the Pro class. This year they were allowed only to try to increase car count and to appease some racers that did not want to race with USRA and had cars just sitting. ( i was one of those racers). Some of the posts argued the big motors were the gun in the knife fight but I think it was more equal than that. 400hp motors won more races than the big motor cars.

If a big motor car was leading the race they NEVER ran off and left the pack.

I am sure they will consolidate the Sportsman and Pro classes next season which is good for the Pro class.

 

Now this spec idea:

 

Some feel this will drag racing down. BS, racing has many other problems than one more class is going to create. I think if you guys building these cars have a dream then go for it! I am sure the guys you have committed know the risks of a new class. If it flourishes then that is great! If it doesn't then your not the first class to go up in flames. And surely you will not destroy Texas racing.

 

The answer is getting the tracks to work together so ALL the classes can have a place to race. All the classes are great. I miss the trucks a HMP and hope they can or will be able to get some dates at HMP. USRA is most likely dead as well so I am sure some of those guys are going to go to another series to race. Like TSRS, Pro Late Models,Trucks, and possibly this new Stock car Sammy is trying to build. I think there is room for everyone as long as you have at least 10 to 14 cars. The fans don't have a problem with more classes they just want bigger car counts. just like the drivers. I personally have alot more fun when I am racing with 10 or 14 cars than I do with 3 (lol)

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Ed Mann

#47 Sportsman Late Model

#47 Pro Late Model (BIG motor) soon to be 400 (little motor) LOL

[speed demon 7]

Ed, you forgot Sportsman Champion!!!! Congrats.

 

Arthur Hermiz

07 Hobby Stock or Stock Car

[HiTech]

bumper to bumper side by side raceing is what poeple want they dont care if its ten cars or five cars .if they are passing each other all the time that will get the fans out .im always happy when two to five cars are going at it .and not nose to tail . one of the best races i have never forgot is when fatman and david lienard .ran 15 laps side by side in the late 80s and it was not desided untill they crossed the finish line .those two cars were minnies .and they had the fans standing the whole race .and niether one of them left anything on the table .i checked the lap times .and they were breaking it .good close raceing is the answer .car counts a plus .jmo .

[Sonic Racing]

Have to agree with you on that also OldTimer, Close, competitive,action packed,lots of passing, and lots of cars.

[speed demon 7]

Side by side racing, sounds like the Houston Hobby Stocks. We have had some good racing this year and the car count is about to explode!!!! As for claiming at Willis, not going to happen. There is NO claim rule at Willis, hasn't been since they dropped IMCA in 2001. Even then there has never been a claim. I know this because I am there every weekend. Even when I race at HMP, I load up and go there for the features. I have a little photo business there that helps pay my bills. There is good racing there, but you got Mods with 20K in there motors, Street Stocks and LIMITED modifieds with 10K and Hobby and pure stocks with 6K in their motors. Claims don't work, but Crates do. If someone wins a bunch of races, pull there crate and give them another, then have theres checked out, or at least dyno'd!!!

[Slammer 00]

I again want to thank everyone for their comments, good or bad, I still want them.

 

 

As far as the claim option. We are running crate motors. We are not going to run a claim.

 

SpeedDemon is correct. If someone has a cheated crate then the dyno will tell.

[HiTech]

i like to say i admire anyone who can come up with anything that can get this raceing going in the right way . i dont care if its a new class of fixing an old class . you have my vote .

[landlord]

Side by side racing, sounds like the Houston Hobby Stocks.  We have had some good racing this year and the car count is about to explode!!!!  As for claiming at Willis, not going to happen.  There is NO claim rule at Willis, hasn't been since they dropped IMCA in 2001.  Even then there has never been a claim.  I know this because I am there every weekend.  Even when I race at HMP, I load up and go there for the features.  I have a little photo business there that helps pay my bills.  There is good racing there, but you got Mods with 20K in there motors, Street Stocks and LIMITED modifieds with 10K and Hobby and pure stocks with 6K in their motors.  Claims don't work, but Crates do.  If someone wins a bunch of races, pull there crate and give them another, then have theres checked out, or at least dyno'd!!!

They had some motors claimed last year at the big halloween race.I don't see why it can not happen again.The rule is in the book if a track is UMP sanctioned and someone protests they don't have a choice.This is how it has always been, I have been out of the dirt loop for a year now did they change something?I think the dyno thing is a great idea by the way.Quick,easy and to the point.How about a quick post of how many people the little Willis track will be expecting this weekend.The UMP class is doing something right!!!!!

[speed demon 7]

Willis is not UMP sanctioned, they are outlaw. They are expecting 25+ modifieds, 50+ Limited Modifieds(2 features), 40 Pure stocks, 35 Hobby Stocks, 30 Mini Stocks, and 25 Street Stocks. That is my expectations, lets see how close I am on Saturday. Should be a good, LATE night of racing. Probably going to be over 1000 people in the stands.

[Jason]

Limited mods are getting to be almost as expensive as a big mod. What saves us is the motor rules though. Instead of 20-25k motors ive heard 6-7k motors.

 

I no longer think CRATES are the way to go. Its still about who has the most money. You send it to a rebuilder and say I have this much money what can ya do. Didnt we see this with the ASA NT and now the ASA LM series?????? If you truely want to race and not have much maintanence then you are just going to be a middle of the pack kind of racer. The winners are the guys who work on their car constantly to make it faster. Just stating the obvious.

[racetrackfan]

The winners are the guys who work on their car constantly to make it faster.

.

couldnt have said it better.........

[Jason]

Since the cars have more resale value why not just use this "spec" idea and put it into an offset latemodel chassis? Let guys run whatever chassis they want or can get but have to have spec shocks, springs, tires, motor, tranny, rear end, etc.

[Slammer 00]

Great idea Jason. I agree with you. I do not know why nobody has been able to get a league like that going and keep it going. I think it was tried a few years back and that league developed into the Pro LM league. I still think that is a great idea.

 

We looked at using a LM chassis and decided we did not want another LM class. That is why we decided on the Stockcar.

[landlord]

Great idea Jason. I agree with you. I do not know why nobody has been able to get a league like that going and keep it going. I think it was tried a few years back and that league developed into the Pro LM league. I still think that is a great idea.

 

We looked at using a LM chassis and decided we did not want another LM class. That is why we decided on the Stockcar.

It became the HMP Late Model class.