KahneFan Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 I was wondering if anyone knew of anything that might help here... My Father-in-Law purchased a used car from a local, large, new car's used car lot. Apprx 3 weeks after purchasing this car his motor is smoking and is about to blow. This car only had 65K on it and appeared to be in good shape. Being from a respected dealer he did not have it checked out. Is there anything he can do, or is he basically screwed out of $7K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted September 27, 2005 Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 Sounds to me like you need to be posting this on a "legal help" website instead of a racing site. I'm sure we all have our opinions, but the only opinion that matters is the legal one. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahneFan Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 That would be a good idea as well Nick, thanks. However, I just thought I would see if someone may have been in the same situation before and may have some friendly advice before trying to seek legal counsel. Sorry for trying to have a conversation with 'friends'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 isn't mcrum on here a lawyer, maybe he can help you out with your problem.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hartracn19 Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Most of the dealerships I have seen that sell used cars, cover those cars for a minimum of 30 days. If this time period has not passed, you will want to get it in there before it does. Document everything that has occurred, including all conversations with the dealership as quickly as you can after they occur. Keep good records to refer back to later as needed. Things like who said what, and when will be very important later, if you cannot get to a resolution. Start by taking it in and discussing the problem with the service writer. Let the service writer have the chance to do their job, and make it right for you. If you reach the consensus that he cannot help, move to discussing the situation with the service manager. If this does not get the results you need, meet with the salesman that sold you the car, and the used car sales manager, and see if they can assist. If you are still not receiving the results you are looking for, talk with the general manager. If he is unable/ unwilling to help, then take it higher. If the dealership is one of several that are owned by the same person/ corporation, move your discussion past the individual dealership. If that doesn't work, there are always the TV news networks looking for a good story (12 on you side, etc.) The key is to remain calm, explain everything in full, and never start saying it is their fault. They sold you a car, like you requested. Granted, it is not running now like it was when you drove it off of their lot, but they have upheld their side of the contract. They may feel like they are doing you a favor by listening, and may help to retain you as a future customer. If talks seem to stall, do not be afraid to point out that their best advertising is word of mouth from its customers, and right now this customer is not really happy. But keep your cool in these discussions. Good luck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck38 Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Sounds to me like you need to be posting this on a "legal help" website instead of a racing site. Texas is a state with a Lemon Law, you should investigate this. Nick is right though, you might be more successful with a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 the lemon law only pertains to the same problem that has been fixed 3 times..........if the same thing breaks 3 times and is fixed and the problem still occurs the vehicle is considered a lemon, as explained by the general manager at superior pontiac when i told them that the car they sold me was a damn lemon............tehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 yeah and my 2005 has had the transmission rebuilt 5 times for the same problem. An two weeks ago when I went to San Antonio I had the problem again but because it didnt kick a code I havent takenen it back yet. GM wont put a new transmission in it cause they said it is more cost effective to rebuild it than replace it. I was told that for it to pass as a lemon it has to safety related but I have a feeling that the dealership is tryin to get out of givin me a new truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Josh, Have you driven a Ford lately? lol That really does suck man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahneFan Posted September 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Josh, Have you driven a Ford lately? lol That really does suck man. My Brother-in-Law (other side) had a new F150 4-door which had the motor go after 1000 miles. The 3/36 took care of that one though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-Crew Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 The dealership will likely point straight to the "sold as is, no warranty" sticker on the window but you get nothing without asking. As Lloyd said, keep the conversation fact based and calm, they do have a vested interest in seeing a "satisfied customer".. Have you done a VIN check on the vehicle? You might be surprised.. Several years ago I was looking a a car being sold by an individual. The story was he needed to leave town and was selling the car "it even has a few months of the 3/36 warranty left".. There were a few too many rock chips on the mirrors and key marks around the trunk lock to have than few miles so I paid $10 for a VIN check. It turns out the car had been sold at auction a few months before with over 100,000 miles on it. When I saw it it supposedly had only 31,000. If you find anything suspicious you will have a much bigger stick to wave at the dealership.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCrum Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Kahne: I can't do the legal advice thing by posting on a website, but give me a call. Some really good, accurate info posted here, but actually the "lemon" law won't help in this, used-car, situation. The key to legal recourse is whether dealer had prior knowledge of any problems with the vehicle. Hard to prove but sometimes can be done. My number is 225-4851. No charge. Scott McCrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 The Lemon Law only applies to new cars,the Buyers Guide is a federal requirment to all licensed dealers in the USA and will tell you exactly what is covered and legally binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCrum Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Another thing, you can get around the "prior knowledge of defect" requirement if dealer/salesman gave affirmative statement as to the condition of the engine, such as, "we had the motor checked and it is in perfect shape, . . .", but must be more than just "puffing." Salespersons are allowed to say things, like, "the engine is sound, etc." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast18 Posted September 28, 2005 Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 Eric, I can get you a history report from carfax.com if you want....call me @ 512-554-6033 Mickey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahneFan Posted September 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 I appreciate everyone's help. He is still working with the dealer and hasn't gotten an official "no we won't help" yet. I'll keep y'all updated, and definitely keep the info coming if y'all have it. Once again, thanks for the input. I'm not the one dealing with this, but I'm passing the info along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsrsfan Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Did it say AS IS NO WARRANTY? Why would one need a lawyer if that it what it said? If it has a warranty, why would you need a lawyer? I am pretty sure this is very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp17 Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 There is a significant difference between “as is” and “buyer beware.” “As is” presumes a representation was made about the condition of the vehicle at the time of sale. That representation rather than the actual condition of the vehicle became the “as is.” Obviously exactly how it was represented can be difficult to prove but it’s safe to say it was not represented as being on the verge of an engine failure, otherwise the transaction would not have taken place. This can be supported by the fact that the car sold for fair market value and was not discounted. Arbitrators tend to look at betterment and in this instance it would appear that the dealer is holding all those cards. My guess is that they will come up with a reasonable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahneFan Posted September 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Did it say AS IS NO WARRANTY? Why would one need a lawyer if that it what it said? If it has a warranty, why would you need a lawyer? I am pretty sure this is very simple. It did have the normal "As Is" sticker on it. Basically it is probably going to boil down to, this dealer has no leagal obligations, but hopefully a moral obligation. I think my Father-in-Law told me they found that it lost a rod. They are telling him that a new engine would cost $6800 (?!). That seems really steep. I know it's a foreign vehicle, but you can usually get a brand new 350 installed @ a Chevy dealer for around $3600, somtimes they even have a special for $3000. I can't see an I4 costing $3300 - $3500 more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsrsfan Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 JP, So if you had just traded that car to the dealer for a new one, then the dealer should come after you for treble damages then?? Go ahead, the lawyers love litigious people. Give me a break, when you buy one as is where is, that is what it should be. The blame game and lawyers are the reason insurance and other things are fo high now. Let me ask you this Kahne, if you had just traded that car in and it blew up, would you give the dealer $8,000 to replace the motor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahneFan Posted September 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 Honestly, if I had the money to do so, I would not replace the motor, but I would let them undo the previous transaction. IF I HAD THE MONEY. As I said previously, it's a more of a moral issue than anything. Personally, if I sold a car to someone and it blew 3 weeks later and I could afford to, I would take the car back and give them their $$ back. Or, if I had another car similar, I would probably offer that, being that I probably bought the other car for $2 or $3: on trade. I clearly understand the "as is", as does my Father in Law, which is why no lawyers are being brought in. He is just hoping the dealer will help him out some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahneFan Posted September 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 GREAT NEWS!!!! I did not want to give the dealer's name until I had a result, but we bought the car @ Charles Maund on 183. The only reason I give the name now is because they are definitely standing up to their name. They offered my Father in Law a used engine w/ a 12K mile warranty for free, or a new engine for $1500. Great job Charles Maund!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 glad it work out kahne-live and learn-next time "pre-purchase inspection" before buying-spend a little,save alot(STRESS)-you cant judge a book by the cover and it's the same for a car,and women-lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp17 Posted September 29, 2005 Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 So if you had just traded that car to the dealer for a new one, then the dealer should come after you for treble damages then?? No. The dealer, as the manufacturer’s representative, is presumed to be the expert. Before purchasing a car for re-sale they have both the time and the expertise to accurately assess the condition of the vehicle. Go ahead, the lawyers love litigious people. See how much love you get from an attorney when you tell him you have a $7000.00 problem and don’t want to pay a retainer. Give me a break, when you buy one as is where is, that is what it should be. So it’s ok for a dealer to knowingly sell defective out of warranty cars? The blame game and lawyers are the reason insurance and other things are fo high now. Nothing in this thread has anything to do with insurance. Your age, choice of vehicle, driving record and credit score are the only things directly affecting your rate. Fortunately it sounds as if the dealer did the right thing and all this came to a happy conclusion. jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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