Too many Touring Series?

[tqj3]

Chase-

We may have just gotten to the point that there are too many touring classes to leave room on the racing calendar for makeups. The next few weeks, for example, are pretty full (and CCMS has an Allison Legacy race, with a number of additional events, set for the same weekend as the NASCAR GN race at THR); by the time we get the scheduled events done it will be mid-October and weather becomes a serious factor, as does football.

[Truck99]

Chase-

We may have just gotten to the point that there are too many touring classes to leave room on the racing calendar for makeups. The next few weeks, for example, are pretty full (and CCMS has an Allison Legacy race, with a number of additional events, set for the same weekend as the NASCAR GN race at THR); by the time we get the scheduled events done it will be mid-October and weather becomes a serious factor, as does football.

Too many touring series... that part I agree with for sure.

 

The last TAMS race was rained out. I think it was scheduled for Sept. 3. They elected to not come back on the 10th. The only reason I heard given was that they would have to come back on the 24th, and that would be too soon or too much driving or whatever.

 

I couldn't help but think, do you guys want to race those cars or look at them in the garage? Come on. We've got guys that travel over 2 hours every week to race at THR. But I guess that's just one difference between the weekly racers and the traveling folks.

 

I'm not trying to insult the TAMS guys or any traveling series racers for that matter. This is just the way I see it sometimes.

[NickHolt]

Which Touring Series do you guys think should go away (without bashing, please)?

 

Nick Holt

[ProTree]

this going to be good

[xcellracing]

removing a latemodel series would greatly help the local tracks, but i feel that touring is the best way to go for those with family. Every week racing is hard on the family life. jmo

[jamie37]

I think TSRS should go away only because the late model count in all of the local tracks are down. Maybe if there wasn't a late model touring series, it would help the local tracks. And if people who drive late models don't like to race at local tracks because they have them every weekend, then go to THR because they don't have them there every weekend. That way you can get a weekend or two to do things with your family.

 

The touring series that I think should stay is USRA because the cars they run are totally different than those at local tracks. This is just my opinion.

[97car]

Is it that time of year again?

[abrungot]

Lets take this at a little different angle.

 

How many races in a season is too much?

 

How many races in a season is too few?

 

How many races in one night is too much?

 

 

Here are my answers:

Anything over 18 races in a series it too many.

Less than 14 races is a bummer.

More than 5 classes in one show is too many.

[abrungot]

now to the TSRS deal.. Why get rid of a series that fills the stands past the break even point??? makes no business sense..

 

Here is one for you... Should USRA Super Latemodels be a series solely for Texas. Maybe they should cover 3 or 4 states to really make it interesting!!

This way each track in TX gets the Super Late Models Max twice.

 

Leave the Trucks and Modifieds local texas max 3 times at 1 track.

 

SAS

THR

HMS

CC

Total is 12 races. + 2 races at TMS Road Course (14 races total)

Edited September 14, 2005 by abrungot

[NickHolt]

now to the TSRS deal.. Why get rid of a series that fills the stands past the break even point??? makes no business sense..

I would be very interested to see your break-even data, Aaron...

 

Nick Holt

[abrungot]

I wouldn't say they are the richest series.. but the nights that they have been at THR we have had the biggest crowds... only exception the biggest croud was the night we had the 2nd Derby... These are observations.... Mary Ann or Brian would be the hard numbers people..

 

But from a I believe the $12 for TSRS + SS + HS + GS is a better racing deal then $18 for SLM + TRU + SS...

 

$12 deal you get 1 qualify session 6-7 heat races and 4 features.

for $18 you get 2 qualify sessions 2-3 heats and 3 features..

 

If your coming for racing i would say $12 is better... Yes the trucks put on a good show.. but My personal opin is the SLM don't

[Truck99]

Which Touring Series do you guys think should go away (without bashing, please)?

 

Nick Holt

I don't think it's as simple as just picking a series that should go away. Although starting a new series is no doubt a difficult task, making an already established one go away is probably even more difficult. I also think that the touring series benefit the racers in many ways but not the tracks. If I had the money, time, and desire to start at traveling street stock series, I have no doubt that it would do well. I also have no doubt that it would hurt the tracks tremendously.

 

So since the odds of any of the touring series just "going away" are probably low, I think a better discussion would be how can the existing series be better organized to benefit the local tracks? I don't think the current sytem of running multiple touring series at one track at a time is the best sytem for the tracks. All of the major series seem to boost the crowd count at THR when they are here. I can't help but think that a better system from the track's point of view would be one that caused there to be a different touring series at each track almost every week. I realize that this type of system is contradictory to the current USRA philosophy and therefore likely has no chance of being attempted, but it makes sense to me. It may not make financial sense to an organization like USRA, but without the local tracks, USRA has no place to go.

 

All that being said, I'll admit that I have no experience managing a race track or touring series, so my ideas probably don't amount to a hill of beans in the real world.

[tqj3]

Sorry, poor choice of words. I wasn't trying to say there are "too many" touring series; just that there are so many touring series that it makes rescheduling, particularly late in the season, that much more difficult.

 

It is an interesting discussion, though.

[Jason]

Aaron because of Texas' location, size, and few asphalt tracks there really are few additional tracks that would be a reasonable addition to the touring series schedule. I made a table showing the distance of all the asphalt tracks within 1000 miles of San Antonio. Hopefully this will help.

trackdistances.html

[Jason]

A topic I started almost 2 years ago about Touring Series and tracks.

http://txsz.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=2020&s=

 

Interesting to see what has changed in almost 2 years.

My opinion has changed a little bit but not much.

 

We live in the wrong part of the country for asphalt racing. If I made a chart like the one above for IMCA sanctioned dirt tracks it would be huge!

[abrungot]

Jason,

I agree with you that there are few asphalt tracks in the area.. But I disagree that it’s a downfall.

It is hard to promote autoracing when you have to work a regular job to pay for your habbit… but think about it..

If we worked a little harder we could build asphalt racing to where there are packed houses…

 

What are we missing.. Team following? Build a team fan base.. Some teams already have this..

But if each team has 20 people that come to the track and you field a 20 car field.. (400 people)

Run 5 classes a night that right there is 2000 people in the stands… $12 per (THR) that is $24,000 at the front gate…

 

If tracks were getting 2000 people in the gate the free tickets for promo's wouldn't kill…

 

 

So how can teams build a fan base that size?? 20 people?? Per team

[latemodel4]

I think that if the latemodel series was gone then the drivers that really enjoy racing would race at local tracks. Therefore there would be more of a car count for the latemodels. Then as you put it abrugnot

 

But if each team has 20 people that come to the track and you field a 20 car field.. (400 people)

Run 5 classes a night that right there is 2000 people in the stands

 

The more teams for the locals the more people in the stands as well. JMO

Edited September 14, 2005 by latemodel4

[jp17]

And to think that I've been under the mistaken impression all these years that I really did enjoy racing. Thanks for setting me straight latemodel4. jp

[fishracer]

I agree without the local tracks open, there will be no venue for the touring series. I do believe that a touring series that canablizes a tracks upper class is a bad deal. Every touring series except 1 is very different from local classes.

 

1') Mods-no local classes except on dirt

 

2.) Trucks- no asphalt truck classes at local level

 

3.) Pro Sedans- no 4 bangers except on dirt

 

4.)USRA- no local classes allow unlimited spending and showcase for every trick of the month seen in Circle track magazine.

 

5.) Allisons- nothing this small unless Legends come to town.

 

 

As four Nicks question about which series needs to go, I think none. Combine the TSRS and the USRA. Take the USRA chassis and combine it with the TSRS drive train and guess what you will probably have twice the car count.

 

The guys that have the current USRA cars can surely afford a $7500-$10,000 motor if they can afford the fairly unlimited ones they are running now and they already have the chassis. As for the TSRS guys most of these are superlatemode chassis with stock clips and they already have the motor and the hd chassis parts that can handle the 10" tires and could make weight at lets say 2900lb. The TSRS motors still have a enough thump to them to fool the fans, if crate engines really scare you.

 

I can hear it already from some of the current sml guys, well if you go to that way I will not race. Alright, go ahead and drive 800-1000 miles one way for a saturday night race . go ahead knock yourself out. If they really care about racing and reducing the costs and racing and putting on a real show, they will fall in line. What skill is there in putting a bunch of zeros on a check you give to an engine builder. Real skill is doing alot with very little. Its great to talk about dry sumps and big flow numbers on heads, but the number of people who have the cash to buy these toys, is alot less than the ones that do not.

 

If you think going faster is the key to the big time, look how many guys now are coming from legends, local lm's, limited series. A whole hell of a lot more than the super late models.

 

Think about it, Nascar is limited in its own way they want people who can take the chassis and drive against fairly equal power plants and get the most out of the car. So series or classes that make the a teams enginuity shine not their pocket book thin are ripe for the pickens.

 

Also, think about it, you only here about a show if the racings close and a driver barely wins with mutiple care jockeying for position., not when its a blowout and and its noticable who the more well funded team is.

[Caveman]

I’m just a simple caveman and I don’t understand these things but in most of the modern theories of business, competition is seen as one of the key forces that keep firms lean and drive innovation.

 

But, that emphasis is being challenged, in part, by using some of the ideas of game theory coupled with the basic tenants of international political retaliations.

 

This new theory suggests that businesses can gain advantage by means of a judicious mixture of competition and cooperation. Cooperation with suppliers (i.e. racers), customers (i.e. fans) and firms producing complementary or related products (i.e. sponsors) can lead to expansion of the market and the formation of new business relationships.

 

This concept is known in racing circles as “coopetition”; a term often used by Darrel Waltrip when describing racing on a super speedway. Coopetition is a blend of cooperation and competition.

 

I'm very simple minded but it seems to me that all that is needed here is a little coopetition between the tracks, racers and touring series.

 

I think it would be very wise for the key players in the Texas racing scene to enthusiastically embrace this concept and realize that consolidation through cooperative competition can be a good thing for all involved. The alternative is very scary, kind of like fire...

[Truck99]

Holy crap Caveman is back!

 

What you are describing is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. The idea of splitting up the touring series to maximize their exposure to the tracks on different nights would take a serious amount of coopetition between the track owners/promoters. So much, in fact, that I hesitate to think that it could ever happen. I think the concept is too much in conflict with Terry D.'s idea of putting the various series all under the USRA umbrella.

 

Something else to consider - in order for each Texas track to be able to have a different major touring series at their track each week, two things would appear to be necessary - first, the touring teams would have to race a little more often and second, the tracks may have to consider building a perioding "off" night into the mix.

[uhcougs]

Is HMP the only track that does not run a weekly show?

 

THR does, SAS does, what does CC do? Weekly show?

[Truck99]

SAS, THR, and CC all run weekly shows. I thought HMP did also, but not sure.

[walshes]

3.) Pro Sedans- no 4 bangers except on dirt

 

Why get rid of a touring class that does not compete with the late model classes? If nothing else the the pro sedans give the crowd a measure by which they can gauge the speed and competition of the "big cars". Most people in the stands come to see racing, the closer the better. The pro sedans give them that and something else! They look like the cars they see on the streets and can relate to.

[TAMS boy]

Houston runs local shows.

 

 

Brad