chasissman Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 hey larry get terri to come along an i will go to nicks deal in austin too couldnt make sanantonio . dude you painted the fender i signed for you i dont do that for jus anybody lol. ill have bill get ya on the other fender o yea a new spotter phrase ( almost clear ) came from that deal nick thanks for invite but jus couldnt make it there see ya in austin if you can get it worked out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Nick, Is there a way you could hold a one or two day condensed or intro version on a Saturday? I will get a place. LL Larry and Sean, After one three hour session, most people are pretty much wiped out. The one complaint I get on my course evaluation sheets is that there was not enough time to absorb all the information in the time allotted (which would be 6 x 3 = 18 hours). If anything, the course should be longer, not condensed. I do not teach short cuts to suspension engineering 101. I teach suspension engineering from a non-engineer's perspective. In other words, a student is getting the engineering principles and how it applies to stock car racing without the engineering double-talk. Most of my students come back for a second seminar because there is just so much information to digest. This is such a common occurrence that I offer any student's third seminar at no charge. Each year a portion of the students that I have in class are repeat customers. I'm sure I could present all the information in two nine hour sessions, but I am also sure that anything after the first few hours would be a waste of my time and yours. So, no, a condensed version is just not something that works. And I am not going to give a "suspension tricks" or a seminar where certain basic guidelines are presented without the underlying theory to back it up. I teach the whole enchilada. Starting with principles of weight (including sprung and unsprung weight) and weight transfer, roll centers and their relationship to CGH and vertical load transfer, progressing through moment arm theory and how it applies to a circle track car, body roll and jacking effect, and then on to how to figure motion ratios and wheel rates (important when selecting springs, shocks and sway bars), spring frequency and spring/sway bar rates, how to select the ball park spring and sway bar combination and move right along on to suspension geometry (including camber and camber gain curves, caster and caster gain, the effect of gravity on KPI and caster settings, toe, Ackerman, dive and squat, scrub radius) and then we provide basic information on shock and tire technology including how to use tire pressure as a tuning tool. Finally, we get into handling (understeer, oversteer) and provide numerous suggestions on how to solve a wide assortment of handling problems. I hand out somewhere between 60-80 pages of notes including programs that help you do the math needed to figure ball park spring rates. On one of the nights we show you how to "string out" a car to check for roll steer (bump steer) on a real race car If there is time, we discuss things like soft spring/big bar setups, the relative advantages/disadvantages of low/high cross weight and answer any questions that students might have that apply to their particular class of car that may be different than the typical race car we use as an example car as we go through the course. Nobody with a normal brain could absorb all of that in a session or two. In fact, most students want more time, not less time in the course. You'd be surprised how many long time crew chiefs and drivers have come to the suspension seminar and admitted that they learned stuff in class that they may have heard about or seen in an article somewhere but didn't really understand what it all meant until they took my classes. So, to answer your question, Larry. Naw.. Spreading the information out over a longer period of time provides students with time to digest the material and prepare questions or seek clarifications after they have had studied the material for a week. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasissman Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 sean dont be afraid to ask ok. wish you lived in dallas area i have 4 trucks to keep up an would like to have help with your enthusiasm . learn to keep real good notes an read a tape measure correctly. you wouldnt how many ppl cant an we live by the tape measure string line an square to do set ups an a plomb bob or two lol good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 see ya in austin if you can get it worked out chassisman, I look forward to your being there. Hopefully Larry can find me a nice spot to hold the seminar in the Austin area. Was thinking about asking Mary Ann and H.E. about the Texas Events Center since everyone already knows where that is.. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 LOL Big Steve...I've got to remind TJ to keep that one when we pull it off...I might be able to sell that for big bucks on ebay some day...Nick, the chasissman is pulling your leg now...but he and Terry don't mind me going so they can at least start to work with my green ass... I understand...not looking for a short cut...maybe fewer topics...I have trouble with commitment...never dated a girl for more than two weeks before I got married...and if it wasn't for this damn shock collar she makes me wear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hgparkjr Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Always looking to learn,or a new technique,two day class,around Austin would be great, Any idea on cost, if this pans out?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjim2 Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 ok the setup wont work there are several guys with trophys on thier mantle that have run that in a 3100 lb car granted they all ran at sas but of course they all had more motor than the trucks have.Sorry i just was tring to help and he ask for a starting set up.I did not say that it was the set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasissman Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 larry not pullin nicks leg we learn somethin from ppl like him an jus maybe we can teach nick a few things . but talkin to other chassis ppl is a good way to toss ideas around with a different perspective an in this business if you think you know it all your gonna be first loser trust me . so lets get a deal done in austin an larry can buy dinner for us nick , ummmmmmmmm thin air technology for trucks that was my secret for bills truck only truck ever dq for bein too lite lol. or is it those mini shorts he wears ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 I'll buy dinner if you promise to get that boy some new shorts...those just ain't right...your signature is preserved under them purty stickers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean-accstudent Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 yeah Nick How much u gonna charge? It wont be $300 again will it? sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 $300 is super reasonable. The knowledge that Nick has and provides to his class is worth triple that. And he is right about amount of time at one sitting. The brain needs time to absorb the info. Tring to do it all in a day or two is just a waste of his time and your money.The man knows what he doing and he is doing it the best way for you.JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 yeah Nick How much u gonna charge? It wont be $300 again will it? sean The cost for the 6-week seminar is $300 per student. If you have a problem coming up with the tuition, please feel free to email me at nick@texasspeedzone.com. Most people who attend tell me (and others) that the cost is very minimal for the extensive information obtained. I have never had a complaint about the cost from someone who has gone through the entire course. In fact, I have many (about 40%) of my students return for a second seminar and some even attend 3 or 4 times! If they didn't think they were getting their money's worth I'm sure they would not be repeat customers. I charge enough so that people take the seminar very seriously and will make it a point to attend every session. I also keep the class size small so that every student has ample opportunity to ask questions during class. In addition, I encourage students to meet with me individually either on the phone, by email or in person because my main purpose in conducting these classes is so that people will actually learn as much as possible about suspension engineering. I have had engineers from E.G.&G. Engineering attend as well as SAE engineers from Southwest Research. All have given the school high marks for the course content and delivery. Believe it or not, but it's not easy to teach engineering and physics principle so that any reasonably bright individual with no specific math or engineering background will fully understand the concepts involved. Not everyone will think that paying $300 is something they want to do. That's fine. I'm not recruiting students. But I am offering people a chance to really learn proven suspension engineering principles from someone who has a technical background as well as nearly 30 years experience setting up winning race cars. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty_rusty Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 sean you might have better success with a team if you weren't demanding 10-15% of the winnings and not knowing a damn thing as you were going along. IF you want know something about setups then just hang out with somebody for FREE and soke it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean-accstudent Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 For one Im not demanding a damn thing. Secondly Im not stupid, I do have some mechanical experience, I am just trying to have an understanding of what changes do what to the car. sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 keep it up and the teacher going to make you 2 sit in timeout-lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean-accstudent Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 HA HA HA Tommy, I wouldnt want to be put in a time out. lol I wasnt trying to start any arguments. I just hate when people emply that others are incompetant. sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasissman Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 sean i think that was a lesson on how to poke fun at a rookie. get used to it cause racin is full of gettin poked on an i do it from time to time jus ask ppl who know me lol jus dont take it serious . all in the name of fun an dumb ppl dont ask the right questions an you are askin good ones. but jus we guard our set ups with care but will help ya in any way we can call me 469-765-5006 glad to help. larry lets find bill some not so gay shorts ill go half on em lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 larry lets find bill some not so gay shorts ill go half on em lol or find him sponsors that really dig into that image-oil can harry's,cattle company.....i can see it now , all the freddy mercury looka likes at all the truck races....the grand stands will be a sea of rainbow flags...and sausage on a stick will sale out every sat. night at the concession stand... see it would help out the tracks as well as the driver... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 crazyhorse-"now that funny right there"- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerx Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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