this sat (August 21, 2010)

[thumper]

Well its good to see you guys totally lost the point again.Thats what happened to our Thunder cars.

 

We had an excellent set of rules in the beginning,year 2000,to build an affordable race car using junk yard parts.Every year after that you rocket surgeons HAD to make " adjustments " to keep it "fair ".You elimanated any chance for a non Ford to be competetive while giving yourselves everything you could imagine.Now that you have everything you turn on yourselves like cannibals.Then quit.What a great class building effort.

 

Like it or not the future was in the hands of people like Will Robertson and Tommy Goldman.They brought the car of the future but those idioditioc FWD rules also affect them and ttheir brands.When Will had a winning Neon there were no camber rules or minimum weight rules.The Fords did not have racing springs or other trick parts.The weight was determaned by carb size,not a flat rate like now.We had aluminan wheels because they were cheaper than aftermarket wheels.They also came in the 16 or 17 inch that lots of modern cars need.If someone brought a too expensive car out you could claim it for 1250$ and your car.We had lots of makes running.For the past many years you cried for racing slicks.Guess what.The 23 car timed 15.01 which would put him with the best Super Street cars.It was smart oh him to not run the transponder or you would have seen 15.50s this Sat.In fact Cody could trade engines with any other Ford and still win.You sound like a spoiled wife who got everything she wanted but is still unhappy.Eliminate aluminum heads_I have one,the Neon has one,the Nissan has one.It still will not help you.

 

My post was about the stupid restrictions on FWD cars.Lift them and I might have a chance.Or equal the playing field.Go pound per CC like the old days you guys talk about,open all the differentials and see how well you can balance your chassis,and remove the front camber on RWD cars.Would I have a chance then??????

 

Steven when you and Horton raced so close together,he had pound per cc,locked diff and some kind of homeade trick rear suspension.How close would he be using todays rules???

 

I still have the original Thunder Car rules and my car is still legal for them.Only now my hands AND feet are tied together.So is every other FWD car.

 

Some say just overcome the restrictions like I have done for so many years.Maybe theres nothing left.What would next years new fairness rule be if I did??

 

Here at RGS they tried to do the same thing.Already the FWD cars have open diff.The weight thing was discussed but dropped.The current thing now is to requier a 50/50 weight for all cars.Since they are all stock,nothing of importance can be moved to the rear.What that means is I need 500 pounds on the Rabbit behind the rear axle.Fortunately the track owner realised how stupid this is and cancelled it.In the meantime we lost 3 new teams that were in the process of buying FWD cars from up north to race at RGS.They did not want to get stuch with a pig.The Toyotas that are doninateing now are tool expensive and hard to find parts for.Sound familiar???

 

The frontrunners will replace us soon enough.When they start getting good pay,lots of track time and the confidence that they will survive,they will flourish all over.It will not be long before the different tracks host big shows that include them.Thats until the rules start getting modified for "FAIRNESS".Just like us.

[thumper]

The exciting part about the frontrunner class is its wide open to new ideas.Whereas I talk about the modern car,thats all thats allowed in this class.The fun part is trying to figgure out what brand of car is the best to use.Someone asked me Sat nite and I replied my top choice att this moment is a Nissan Altima.Big engine,2.4 multicam 16 valve,strong suspension,bullitproof trans and comes with decient tire size.All the factors are important in car selection.That Honda Accord that started the season is also a good choice.Properly maintained it will run forever.That one probably did not have a great service history.I sell few of these motors because they are reliable.And the car is light.

 

I dont agree with mixing standards with automatics but its not my decision.The other tracks agree.At this point it doesnt matter but some time it might.

 

The best part is several tracks now run these basic types of cars.In fact a car like Jessies would be competetive here at RGS being we run stock engines.If I had Jessies car I would upsizs the tires,a max oif 235 is allowed,add a little camber and win here with it.This is the direction 4 cyls are headed since Thunders cant do it.

 

Does anyone have any ideas what totally stock 4 cyl car would be a good choice??The important factors are horsepower,suspension strength,factory tire size and available parts.This could be real fun.

[cRt racing]

gb read things more clear next time. we was talking about no alum heads for the fords and slowing the fords down

 

 

 

 

 

you know forget this i was thinking if the rules got right i would put some cars together but it never changes maybe front runners are they way to go now

[thumper]

Im saying dont slow them down.We are supposed to be the fast class.I saying quit slowing the other brands down as well.If you really think a paticular car has too expensive of enging,just claim it.I guarntee if someone brought out a VW with a formula V engine or a twin cam tricked out engine I would claim it in a heartbeat.I cant build one for 1200$.The head costs more than that.I just dont know if a Ford engine is worth that and it will not fit my car,,,,I dont hhink.How much is a Ford engine with an aluminum head worth???I dont even know what years came with one.I dont care anyway,Im close enough in HP or so it seems.Just need to get the car more driveable.

 

Heck right now he can trade engines with me and still beat me.

[cRt racing]

g b the alum heads on the fords are after market they will cost you around 3500 dollars depends on what you stage you get it in . it isnt a factory option

[thumper]

In that case 1200$ is a bargan if someone really has one.I wonder if I can modify it to fit my car.Can we switch makes ans models??Must be OK if we can use non factory parts.JK,more HP will not help me,already spinning the tire.

 

Steven have you forgotten what a claim rule is about???Its about using the rules to work for you.Its not personal.Its competetion.There is a claim rule at Thunderhill.They will tell you,buy it or shut up about it.RGS says the same thing.It all started with IMCA who also had no motor rules in modifieds.The modifieds disappeared in south Texas because the tracks did not use the claim rule.Again its not personal,just rules.

 

What if you claimes a cars engine.Good deal if your correct.That car sells and looses a ton of money or races for free that nite.If he is DQed you move up a spot.If he sells you have a monster motor for your car cheap.Or sell on E-Bay.Unfortunately this same car can put a different motor and still dominate,it takes more than motor to go fast.Now what????Theres my point.What can I do???

 

Untie me boys and lets see what I got.Or dont got.Maybe other FWD cars will try too.

[neon14]

Thumper I think your right. The frontrunners will eventually replace the existing class.

 

Then they will evolve into a faster class with suspension and motor mods.

 

And then the great FWD vs RWD debate will be over.

[BJ34]

The only think that suxs about that is most of the fruntrunner classes do not let neon in them

[thumper]

I agree and thats how it starts.First no Neons,then no Eclipses then no Hondas etc.etc.Soon your back where Thunders are today-but without the Fords.

[HiTech]

never mind ..il back up ..and shut my typing up.on this subject ..

[thumper]

!!!!!!!!!!

[HiTech]

So is 1200$ too much for an engine? Thats what they sell for.Mine is worth about 650$.

So why is my brand the one with penalties?????

 

I still have not heard one person with a constructive idea on how to add cars.You will not see a bunch of new 10,000$ Fords.Possibly see new modern cars if they are given a chance.Its probably too late now anyway.Who needs us??

 

I wouldnt care if we ran stock motors and 6 inch tires.Or a max engine size of 1600cc.It should be the same for everybody and its not.See the results.NASCAR backwards way of thinking.Ancient designs and protection style rules to support them.

 

Done now,time to try to fix Thumper.Senseless damage that could have been avoided without the penalities.

lol ..so if you take off all the restrictions in your wabbit ..let you have what you want ...and then get into a wreck with those new rules you are wanting ..wonder if they would be senseless . i mean ..you would hit harder would you not ..seeing you would be running faster laps ..

[CJY08]

Alright i been quite long enough...Would everyone just quit crying about motors...STOP IT!!!! I dont know how we got stuck on this topic AGAIN for some random reason but its enough...NOTHING is gonna change this year with this rule nothing, Yes maybe there is more rules towards FWD then us RWD... But thats what was rule'd In at the meeting, because we got stuck on the big motor subject and nothing else, Next year us drivers, {DRIVERS} in this class needs to be the ones at the meeting and voting this stuff in or out, Not the pitcrew, not friends of this class, Drivers! Whats killing this class is people that have cars or is building cars gets on here to see everyone crying about the rules so they move to a easier class or wait to see what the rules are gonna be. Ok we get what your saying mike, But like you were saying in earlier post if you guys were faster or just as fast then us now SHOW US, go old school and show us...Yes i know you work on cars that are in this class THANK YOU, I dont see jesse on here crying about motors or lisa. Steven You hurt this class more then you know when you took 2 cars out of this class just because of a rule, WE had a hell of a race this weekend from 1st all the way back, even had drivers from the other classes come up and saying good job to us. We are getting the ball moving again, So help with the class build a car or etc. or shut up and quit making us look bad. Nick Am sorry, this is not intended to bash to anyone, but enough is enoguh, Its just facts. hopefully see all of you saturday.

[HiTech]

Alright i been quite long enough...Would everyone just quit crying about motors...STOP IT!!!! I dont know how we got stuck on this topic AGAIN for some random reason but its enough...NOTHING is gonna change this year with this rule nothing, Yes maybe there is more rules towards FWD then us RWD... But thats what was rule'd In at the meeting, because we got stuck on the big motor subject and nothing else, Next year us drivers, {DRIVERS} in this class needs to be the ones at the meeting and voting this stuff in or out, Not the pitcrew, not friends of this class, Drivers! Whats killing this class is people that have cars or is building cars gets on here to see everyone crying about the rules so they move to a easier class or wait to see what the rules are gonna be. Ok we get what your saying mike, But like you were saying in earlier post if you guys were faster or just as fast then us now SHOW US, go old school and show us...Yes i know you work on cars that are in this class THANK YOU, I dont see jesse on here crying about motors or lisa. Steven You hurt this class more then you know when you took 2 cars out of this class just because of a rule, WE had a hell of a race this weekend from 1st all the way back, even had drivers from the other classes come up and saying good job to us. We are getting the ball moving again, So help with the class build a car or etc. or shut up and quit making us look bad. Nick Am sorry, this is not intended to bash to anyone, but enough is enoguh, Its just facts. hopefully see all of you saturday.

those crews who work on cars .build those cars are just asmuch of an importance than an owner and driver ....infact . some of those cars you see in any class .maynot race with out em ... . .. now speaking for steven .which he can speak for himself i know .. but i didnt see where steven hurt this class at all ..he told you he could not afford what it takes or want to spend that kinda money on ..but you guys were blind .you helped send him down the road ...in fact you kept my son from running in this class .thats another car ..lets see three four maybe ...so whos to blame here ..it darn sure isnt the drivers who wanted it alittle less costly or future driver .... now you said getting on here keeps poeple from building cars ..then shut up ..i mean that nicely.... i like you .... do you have a furm amount of how many would start building these cars ...not in a million years ..but i have already proven how many you lost ... one up on you charly ..the proof is with me and steven .so far....... nick or anyone this. is friendly

[BJ34]

If i am right that is what Steven said he was going to get rid of them because he did not want to race for 4th or 5th place and did not have the money to spend on both cars to race up front with all the money motors . And that is what he did

[BearsBomber]

I'm tired of hearing this same babbaling BS, already. Look there are fast guys and there are slow guys with the exceptional lucky guy here and there. Every class has their "I can dump money into a car guy" and then theres the guy who has to cut back on smoking 1 pack of smokes a week to make it to the track, IT HAPPENS. THATS LIFE!!!! Regardless what rules are in place they will always seem to be broken by what seems to be "bottemless pockets". Racing is also a DRIVERS sport as much as it an "eqiupment" sport, you take David Rutteman or Elliot Sadler and put them in Jeff Gordan or Jimmy Johnsons car, are they going to win or finish as good as they do week in and out? NO! Notice in nascar there are 43+ teams and only 43 get to run each week and only 1 wins. So they have set rules which they dont get to cry about except something totally retarded like the "WING" but at 200mph u can nit-pick something like that. Its racing, the rules evolve along with the cars. so what do you do? EVOLVE with them!!! Stop crying about motors or this and that. The fact that you ran low 15s back in the late 80s- early 90s if freaking great, GJ, im glad! The times have changed and so has the track! Now you need to look at where you stand in your class and figure out how to improve from there with the rules provided. Cody is following the same rules as the rest of you, I know, I work on his car, nothing on it is illegal. GB im sure is pushing the rules as close as he can while still being legal im sure, maybe hes missing something, maybe hes not. Oh wait, who bought one of the carpenters cars? oh thats right, we did! And what did we find, Weight Jacks amoung other things, but thats actually besides the point....The fact is the rules are what they are. Everyone had the oppertunity to speak up on Jan 2nd at the drivers meeting before the start of the season. Rules were agreed apon and thats that. There was a little problem with the tires at the begining of the season and Dan Monroe gave Drivers ample time to resolves that issue by the half way point of the season. Now that thats resolved, here we are yet again....motors...................

 

Anyways its 4am, I gotta admit im a little buzzed...

Basically this thread started out as GB asking if there was a race on said saturday, and OF COURSE....OLD TIMER(sorry brother there any nothing "hi-tech" about u) had to hi-jack it and start ranting about something, and this is how it ends up...

 

Just like to say, sorry if this offends anyone, deal.

 

Everyone have a great Wednesday.

Cya at the track,

 

Nick T.

 

 

P.S. and I didn't even use spell checker!

[HiTech]

noone said codys car was illegal ...good car fast car and good driver ..if you think this is aboult cody ..chill out ..its aboult cost and building this class back up . the whole point i am rambling aboult ..sorry if i care aboult this class ..its been a big part of me for along time ..and i dont want it to die ... wished i could quit careing .....maybe something good will come out of this .... wether your mad at me like me .or think high tech means anything other than a name .well thats another story ......that realy dont matter here does it ....the point of running those old lap times. .steven and i talked aboult .....some guys want to go that fast ..i do .but it can be done with less money spent under the hood .. but less power against big power but same lap time .wont work ..it isnt working now ...cost cost cost ..and car counts are down .. steven and i have brought up the largest reason this class is dieing ..the largest reason why either one of us dont have a car of our own running with you ....oh ill support this class with helping the three other cars we have plus one ..and injoy watching cody and others race ..aslong as this class survives ...... hopefully it will ..... i didnt use spell check .. did i mispell a word .... btw ..the 9th word of your post .. itsspelled this way stuff ....... i ll see you at the races ..hopefully it wont rain ....im not buzzed im sober. i dont drink and now i have to go to work ..you know hightech stuff ...

[thumper]

A very simple and inexpensive answer is have EVERYBODY run open differentials.Or Everyone run locked diffs.Open diff means its entirely up to balancing the chassis and motor means nothing.Bombers do it and also run street tires.Exciting racing too.

 

I spent all nite straightening out the rear of Thumper.I replaced the beam.I cant believe one little hit bent so much.I think the frame is tweeked as well.What the heck are those Fords made of,drill stem??? It would be a little easier if all my spare parts were not all rotton.Im trying to have it ready for Sat.Will there be enough cars to race???

 

Im going to try a spring change.Up on the RF,down on the LF just a little.I dont have race springs or a spring rater so I use a micrometer to measure the wire diameter.Different models give me choices AKA 2 door,4 door,Rabbit,Jetts,Scirroco,Golf,etc.Nobody makes a race spring that fits the pigtail winding.Only racing suspension for FWD VW is a coilover design.

 

Looks like I need to find about 3 tenths more.A locked diff would do it maybe.

[cRt racing]

and no the rules wasnt agreed on at the meeting . i tryed to tell you all stuff and people didnt want to listen . so like i told everyone at the meeting its fine im selling my cars and bj is right . i wasnt going to put the kind of money in a thunder. we was going to build 3 cars and lalo was going to build at least 1 maybe 2 . so charlie sorry if you think i hurt this class at least. i sold my cars to local drivers so they could put them back in the thunders .all i am saying is the drivers need to get together and set the rules early make it affordable. so people that are going to build new cars know how things are going to be next year . and i wont go to the meeting. but show me the new rules and maybe if you all do right ill build some cars . now its in your hands and im out this is my last comment on this topic

[texaswicked]

why not adopt the TPS rules? or are they the same as the thunders?

[HiTech]

why not adopt the TPS rules? or are they the same as the thunders?

some of the tps rules could play into effect here ...........

[railer]

YOU know I dont have a dog in this deal ,,, But all you guys knew how much racing cars is ,every week etc or what ever ,,I see it this way if you have a running car and racing at ccsw in a class that you are running in you have a gripe in it , and you went to the drivers meating and listened to what was said DO what the meating was all about ,,,,That is it !!!! Do the rules NO car , No complaining ,,, Cost dont go there,, You knew when you got a car it was going to be costly ,,But most of all no car no gripe Dont run your own class out of here... I have 1 car in 2 classes ... almost some griping, but not on here.....Yall guys are Killing yourselfs and dont even know it

[thumper]

Rules should NEVER be decided on at any driver meeting especially when different makes are involved.They can be discussed but then its up to the track,race director or series sponsor to set the rules.They need to understand each rule and have a reason for them.You cannot make class rules baised on any teams performance.The rules define exactly what the finished product will be.So those in charge actually design that car.Ive been to too many meetings and its always the same thing.Some geniouses come up with dumb ideas how to equalise the competetion baised on what they want.Most of these guys dont even have a running race car.

 

Right now we have a morfidite car thats half entry level AND haly full blown race car.It started out an inexpensive design allowing tuning for speed without aftermarket or racing parts.The idea was to use what you have rather than buying spec parts.This basic car design is still being used at Rio Grande Speedway since 1992.The only different thing now is they require a stock engine and check that by compression and vacuum.Our "RULES " meetings have put us in a different direction and I dont know what we have now.All we have proven is we cannot regulate ourselves.

 

For us to survive Dan needs to do or have a commitie do an evaluation of our rules,get imput from active drivers,decide what kind of car he wants it to be.Hopefully favoring the modern car,thats where new cars are right now.Or turn it into a full blown race car with race tires and such.Like the difference between bombers and super streets.Then the track makes the rules,not fake drivers,and can be petetioned for any changes needed or wanted but only the track make the final decision.Its called leadership.I dont remember Pro Sedans having a rules meeting.They do listen and evaluate.Ive seen it sway between FWD and RWD cars forever.But the management team decided.

 

Racers cant make rules.Never has,never will.I can name you lots of examples from the cheapest to the most expensive cars.However good leadership can bring sucess to any class at any level.Thunder Cars right now need leadership.One Cheif,the rest of us Indians.

[texaswicked]

hey gb you still own a junk yard?

[hstapper]

Rules should NEVER be decided on at any driver meeting especially when different makes are involved.They can be discussed but then its up to the track,race director or series sponsor to set the rules.They need to understand each rule and have a reason for them.You cannot make class rules baised on any teams performance.The rules define exactly what the finished product will be.So those in charge actually design that car.Ive been to too many meetings and its always the same thing.Some geniouses come up with dumb ideas how to equalise the competetion baised on what they want.Most of these guys dont even have a running race car.

 

Right now we have a morfidite car thats half entry level AND haly full blown race car.It started out an inexpensive design allowing tuning for speed without aftermarket or racing parts.The idea was to use what you have rather than buying spec parts.This basic car design is still being used at Rio Grande Speedway since 1992.The only different thing now is they require a stock engine and check that by compression and vacuum.Our "RULES " meetings have put us in a different direction and I dont know what we have now.All we have proven is we cannot regulate ourselves.

 

For us to survive Dan needs to do or have a commitie do an evaluation of our rules,get imput from active drivers,decide what kind of car he wants it to be.Hopefully favoring the modern car,thats where new cars are right now.Or turn it into a full blown race car with race tires and such.Like the difference between bombers and super streets.Then the track makes the rules,not fake drivers,and can be petetioned for any changes needed or wanted but only the track make the final decision.Its called leadership.I dont remember Pro Sedans having a rules meeting.They do listen and evaluate.Ive seen it sway between FWD and RWD cars forever.But the management team decided.

 

Racers cant make rules.Never has,never will.I can name you lots of examples from the cheapest to the most expensive cars.However good leadership can bring sucess to any class at any level.Thunder Cars right now need leadership.One Cheif,the rest of us Indians.

 

You are write GB . The thunders are not the class that me and Tommy helped start they are glorifed outlaw mini stocks .

 

What Dan should do is look at what this class is now and think back to what it was like back then when we ran four wide down the front strataway and no one wrecked . They cant do that today .

 

Its like i said a long time ago CC is a handling track not a motor track . I know i proved that with a Toyota a lot and it was a junkyard car all stock that was untill everybody keep wanting more & more changes to the rules . That put me and a lot of other drivers a$$ out . I did not have a sponcer to sink 2 or 3 thousand $ i raced out of my back pocket and almost went into the poor house trying to run out there . You know i ran that car for almost 10 years out there and every year someone was having to build a new car ..........