I have a question that I would like to be answered

[Banker36]

Nick- I know this was your first time at THR and your first time with your new rules but I have a question regarding tonights Streetstock race. Now lets start off with the heat race. Dad was behind the 87 when the 87 did a solo spin and Dad continued on into turn 4 when the 44 spun which in turn Dad spun into the infield to miss him. Now in your so called "pit gate rules" it says that if a car spins to miss another car but does not make contact then he/she will be granted their spot back. Well he was sent to the back and clearly you could tell he made no contact with either car. Ok thats one thing now lets move onto the feature.

 

Dad the 87,99, and 02 were all coming into turn 2 heading down the back straight when the 87 was loosing control of his car. Dad was on the inside of him with a lapped car below him and then Doug Ayers in the 02. They split the lapped car went into turn 3 and Dad took over the lead but the 87 had spun on the back straight. For some reason yall stuck my Dad too the back with the 87. Now after the race Dad even talked to the 87 and the guy told him that no he had lost control of his car long before Dad had come into the picture. Now I just want these new rules take place in correct form. Dad has said all along that he is all for the whoever is invovled rule BUT only when it is used right. I do not want to see this happen to anyone but it just so happened it invovled my Dad. I talked to qutie a few people after the race and they all saw the same thing. It didnt happen the way it was said it did. So I just hope that this rule is used in a btter way next and is never abused on anyone. No I know your going off what your spotters say but come on theyneed to have a set of trained spotters not just some jo blow off the street that wants some tickets. Now I know that most of em have worked here int he past but this isnt a joke around sport maybe some training needs to be put in place. Again I stress that Im not just complaining cause it invovled my father but its something that needs to be looked at in sucha fashion where no one gets gipped.

 

Thanks for your time.

Matt Banker

[NickHolt]

Matt,

 

You got it right. I do go with what my officials tell me they saw. Anybody who had their scanners on knows that two officials plus the flagman saw the same thing and the calls were made right then and there.

 

The newer officials all received training before. during, and after the practice sessions this past week. Maybe you could join one of infield officials one race night to get a better feel for what goes on during a race. I invite you to do so.

 

Nick Holt

[Banker36]

No Nick I know what I saw and hear dwhat alot of people saw so Im gunna stick to my guns. I have watched no where near as many races as you have but Ive watched enough to know what Im watchin so no I dont wanna join I guess what you would call "your" officals now.

[Jason]

Must be a conspiracy. lol

[Lonestar88]

Already picking on people......lol. Jason I like the conspiracy thing, sound political...

[HORSEPOWER]

Is your dad the #36? If it was the same race I saw, that was a bad call. We were wondering why he was sent to the back.

[TTR73]

HorsePower

 

 

Yea that is his dad and that was a very bad call i heard everybody in the pits talkin about it but I don't thinkn the officials had that much training before they did the first night. That's just my opinion!!

 

But yea my car will be out there on the tenth and i better not get bad calls like this. But i can't stop it

 

 

TTR73

[Banker36]

Yes Horsepower he is the number 36 streetstock.

[GregGurley]

they need to have a set of trained spotters not just some jo blow off the street that wants some tickets.

Matt,

 

Don't insult the intelligence and the experience of the spotters out there. Most of the officials at THR have been involved with racing long before you were even born. If we just wanted some free tickets to watch the races, we would be selling programs in the stands and not out on the track trying to watch twenty cars at the same time and make the tough calls. We are out there because we love the sport and we want to support Thunderhill Raceway.

 

I personally was not involved with either one of the calls on your dad but our spotters are trained to make the calls as they see them and not to make any guesses. If the 87 car was losing control in turn two before your dad came into the picture and they touched in any way, that was all involved and it is not a judgement call. Our spotter thought they made contact and he made the call. Now, if the 87 car did not make contact with your dad, then he should have stopped and told an official on the track and we would have corrected it. I have known your dad for twenty five years and he is by far the best sportsman on the track. I wish every driver was as fair as he is.

 

Keep in mind, it is very easy to make the calls when you are only watching one car but we do not have enough spotters to do that and we can only watch a small portion of the track at one time. Sometimes the spotters have a better angle of view from the track than what you can see from the pits or the stands. I invite you to come down into the infield with me and try to spot for a couple of races. Believe me, it is a lot harder than anyone thinks it is. I'm sorry if your dad thinks we made the wrong call and I'm sure he would agree there is no conspiracy going on.

 

Greg

[Banker36]

I dont beleive there is a conspiracy Greg thats just something Jason said not me. But I just think this rule was abused but its new so I guess give it time and it be used in the correct way.

[GregGurley]

Thanks Matt

 

I appreciate your comments and concerns. The new rules are going to take some getting use to. We are really trying hard to give Thunderhill a quality group of officials and make good calls. Like Nick said in the drivers meeting, innocent people are going to be involved with the calls and it won't always seem fair. We are all human and we will make mistakes sometimes. I think overall we will see quality calls from our officials. Best of luck on the new season.

 

Greg

[Banker36]

Ok Nick this is my last comment ont his whole thing. I do beleive inthis rule very much and so does Dad he is all for it. Some degree of touching between cars must be allowed though and I trust that that will be the case in the near future. I was not tryin to say THR sucked I wrote that post soon as I was home from the track and I was still very P/Oed. I think the add ons were a great improvment and that the rules were set up nicely. In the heat race he did no touching on either cars that spun but hey mistakes happen on calls Im sure they do. Dad has told me that he did rub on the 87 car during the feature but that was before the guy spun out. So heres my question? Will we (the THR cars) be able to have some degree of rubbing? I mean hey rubbing is racing and even the big boys in NASCAR do it at short tracks. I think at the next drivers meeting this topic needs to be discussed for the benefit of all drivers. This weekend I felt things were kind of rushed so possibly a meeting on the rule could be put in place?

 

Ive always thought you to be a nice fair guy on the internet and I think you are probaly a nice fair guy runnin a racetrack. Maybe Im wrong for bringing this topic up but I beleive some rubbing is a part of racing. BUT by no means should someone wipe someone out a get away with it. Thats a deffent no. So as I said before I would just like this rule to be looked over and discussed witht he drivers and possibly modified to the benefit of everyone. This is just the thought of one crew member but maybe many feel as I do thus this is why I think its a good topic to discuss.

 

Thanks for your time Nick and THR staff.

Matt Banker

[makdada]

don got the shaft. he never touched the 87 car.

[Banker36]

Well regardless its all behind us now. Read My reply one up from yours^^^^^^

 

 

Matt Banker

[GregGurley]

Will we (the THR cars) be able to have some degree of rubbing?

Matt,

 

That is a good question and the answer is YES. There is definitely going to be rubbing and bumping going on and that is fine as long as it doesn't bring out a caution or the officials believe it is excessive. The unfortunate part of the rule is the innocent victims that get taken out because a solo car loses control and hits someone else. There is going to have to be a lot more defensive driving this year to avoid those types of cautions and to save your position on the track. I'm sure Nick will give you his comments on this and will be glad to talk to you personally at the track or answer any questions at the next drivers meeting. I'm sure we can clarify any questions you have.

 

Thank,

 

Greg

[Truck99]

Matt,

 

From the perspective of someone other than a track official, I'll say that rubbing is allowed so long as it doesn't result in a caution. Your dad and Cary did some rubbing in the feature race, but nobody crashed and all was well. Was that experience or luck? I think you and I know the answer to that.

 

As far as the call in the feature, I couldn't tell about contact or no contact from my vantage point near turn 1. During the heat race, someone definately hit the 87 car because the tell-tale sound of two bumpers kissing was quite loud just before the 87 got out of shape. I'm not saying it was Don that hit him because I don't remember who else was in the area, but someone definately smacked him.

 

Good luck to you guys on the 10th.

 

cs

[corvette john]

Well I can tell you one thing on this rule, It kept the car I hit sat night from spinning, I was at fault lost control and hit the leader, I can tell you in the past the leader would have spun and I would have went to the back In sted I tried like hell to keep my car going which I did and the lead car kept the lead. Thats a big reason why the rule was made. NO IT WONT BE FARE ALL THE TIME.... thats what we all heard in the meetings.. But over all It will make racing there much better.. Sorry for your bad call, Please don't think It will be the last bad call you get, just remember the officials are there to help us , they are not against us, they see more then we do sometimes or should I say more then we are willing to see... Keep are the sides of the law and the law and life will be much better racing at Thunder Hill...

 

Red Shark Racing # 15

[corvette john]

Ok,,, my typing is worse than my spelling sometimes.. last thing I said was supposed to be...... Keep on the side of the law,,,, and the law will be better for our lives at Thunder Hill

 

Red Shark Racing #15

[waddy]

nick i hope im not reading this right, are you saying that if two cars bring out the yellow and a car is 3 to 4 cars back and he hits a stopping car or a car that has swerved to miss the wreck he also will go to the rear and howmany will you put to the rear in this case 7 maybe 8 the only way to make a call is the 2 cars causing the yellow to the rear any body else that is punished is totally ridiculous if you try to miss a wreak and spin out do you go to the rear or if you stop for a wreak and someone hits you in the rear do you still go to the rear the only way this is going to work is the cars that cause it go to the rear or you will be punishing the drivers trying to miss the wreaks how many cars will you put there if ten are involved the only fair way is the cars that cause it to go back you will have every driver out thare totally riped off before the season is over very bad rule ten years of racing iv,e seen them all and this one is ridiculous please talk about this with all of the officals then they won,t have to make a judgement call involved in bringing out the yellow go to the rear real simple thank you waddy i,ll see yo,all the 10th

[Truck99]

Leland, that's the way it was explained in the driver's meeting. However, I did see one case where two cars got together to bring out the yellow. At about the same time, the 44 car solo-spun on the back stretch as everyone checked up. The 44 car got his spot back. I wondered about that, but I figured the call was that the 44 car spun after the yellow was out. If that's the way it works, any cars spinning might be safe if they spin after the yellow flag flies. The 44 car's spin was almost simultaneous with the two offending cars, but I think the yellow flag flew just as he began to spin. Maybe Nick will clear this up.

 

cs

[Banker36]

Leland I still dont really understand the rule it wasnt used like it was said it was this weekend from my take on things. And I had a good take.

[GregGurley]

Leland,

 

If two cars get together and bring out a caution and cars in the back run off the track, hit the wall or another car, only the cars that caused the original caution will be sent to the back. As long as you avoid the original accident that brings out the caution, you won't be punished and you will get your spot back. The call from Saturday night was a solo car that got loose but came down inside and touched another car. The caution was brought out and the call was that the solo car and the car he touched went to the rear. Any of the other cars behind this accident that went off the track or got into other cars to avoid the original accident were not penalized. Unfortunately there will be innocent victims that did not cause the accident but will get caught up in it. I hope this helps with your question and we will be glad to answer any more of your questions or concerns at the next drivers meeting.

 

Greg

[25DRM]

The driver of the 44 car is my dad. He said that the clutch was slipping. And thats why he was spinning out.When I checked the clutch, it had oil on it and thats why it was slipping.

[NickHolt]

Waddy,

 

Here’s the “All-Involved” rule

 

All cars involved in an incident that requires a Yellow Flag (or Red Flag) will be restarted at the rear of the pack in the order in which they were running on the last completed green flag lap.

1. “All involved” means any car that makes contact with another car during an incident that results in a caution period. It does not matter which car spins or does the spinning or who was at fault. A car is considered involved if it makes contact with another car involved in bringing out the caution period. If only one car causes the caution period, that car will re-start at the back of the pack

2. If a car spins to miss the incident and does not hit any of the other cars involved, that car may be restarted in the position they were running on the last completed green flag lap before the incident at the discretion of the Competition Director. For instance, a car spinning into the infield to avoid contact may be reinstated at the discretion of the Competition Director.

 

So, to answer your questions one by one.

 

are you saying that if two cars bring out the yellow and a car is 3 to 4 cars back and he hits a stopping car or a car that has swerved to miss the wreck he also will go to the rear and howmany will you put to the rear in this case 7 maybe 8 the only way to make a call is the 2 cars causing the yellow to the rear any body else that is punished is totally ridiculous if you try to miss a wreak and spin out do you go to the rear or if you stop for a wreak and someone hits you in the rear do you still go to the rear

 

What I am saying is that the cars involved in an incident that causes the yellow are going to the rear, no matter who was “at fault.”

 

If another incident occurs after the original incident that caused the yellow to wave (for instance at the other end of the track) the cars involved in that second incident get to start in the position they were in if they can continue (unless, of course, they go to the pits and then they have to start at the rear anyway) since their incident did not bring out the yellow.

 

Likewise, if there is a wreck in turn one between two cars and other cars slam into that wreck, they are all involved and all would go to the back in the order they were running during the last completed lap.

 

But, if a car stops on the track to avoid the incident that brought out the yellow and does not hit any of the cars involved, he is not involved and he gets his position back. Then, if someone comes along and slams into him, neither car was involved in the incident that brought out the yellow so they both get to resume in their previous spot if they can continue (unless of course, they go to the pits and then they start at the rear anyway).

 

the only way this is going to work is the cars that cause it go to the rear or you will be punishing the drivers trying to miss the wreaks how many cars will you put there if ten are involved the only fair way is the cars that cause it to go back you will have every driver out thare totally riped off before the season is over very bad rule ten years of racing iv,e seen them all and this one is ridiculous please talk about this with all of the officals then they won,t have to make a judgement call involved in bringing out the yellow go to the rear real simple thank you waddy i,ll see yo,all the 10th

 

I get the feeling that you might not have been at the drivers’ meeting where most of the points you are making were discussed. The intent of the rule is to remove from the officials the decision as to who was at fault in an incident. There are still many judgment calls remaining to be made - like trying to verify who was actually involved and which incident actually brought out the yellow.

 

And you have the right idea when you say that the only cars that should be sent to the back of the pack are the cars that were actually involved in bringing out the yellow.

 

I appreciate the fact that some racers do not like the all-involved rule. Some, especially those teams that have close associations with the track or series officials (such as sponsorship deals or personal friendships) or have drivers with enough racing experience to make almost any racing incident look like it was the other guys fault, would rather take their chances in not getting blamed for being a fault for bringing out the yellow. However, the majority of the more successful asphalt short tracks across the country use the “all-involved” rule.

 

I have discussed the all involved rule in great detail at the two drivers’ meetings so far at THR and have gone over just about every possible scenario with the other race officials.

 

I hope I have cleared up some of the misconceptions you and perhaps some others may have had regarding this rules change.

 

I look forward to seeing you on the April 10, if not before!

 

By the way, I saw in the TSRS results sheet that you didn’t start the main. Did you loose an engine?

 

Nick Holt

[TTR73]

25drm that would make him slip