Super Late Model Racing

[Casey19]

1. ^ Sat./Sun., Jan. 24-25 Lanier National Speedway 200 *

 

2. s Sat/Sun March 7-8 South Alabama Speedway 250 *

 

3. Mar 28 or Apr 4 or Apr 19 T.B.A. 100

 

4. Sunday, May 3 Nashville Fairgrounds 150 *

 

5. Saturday, May 16 Montgomery Motor Speedway 100

 

6. Saturday, June 6 Monroe Motor Speedway 125

 

7. Saturday, July 18 Lanier National Speedway 125

 

8. Saturday, August 15 South Alabama Speedway 100

 

9. Saturday, September 5 Mobile International Speedway 100

 

10. Sunday, September 13 Nashville Fairgrounds 150 *

 

11. Saturday, October 3 T.B.A 100

 

12. ^ Sat./Sun. Oct. 31-Nov 1 Nashville Fairgrounds 400 *

 

13. ^ Sat./Sun. Nov.14-15 Major Event T.B.A 200 *

 

 

 

Tentative Schedule - Subject to Change

 

 

 

All Races "Green Flag Laps Only" Except Where Noted

 

 

 

* - Caution Laps Count ^-CRA Sanctioned Non-Points Special Event

 

s- CRA Supported Non-Points Special Event

[racedude]

If the Rattler Line-up is any indication of cars the CRA South Series will draw It will definetly be the new short track premier series Looking forward to 2009 as a race fan to see real racing in the South again

[UMSCHEIDRaceServices]

I wonder what it takes to get Kyle or Houston to be on one of the dates instead of TBA??

[supertx]

It's about time that the super late models come back to Texas Let the tracks know how you feel.

[racedude]

The Texas track owners have a window of opportunity - I am sure that the series is very negotiable now but as it explodes their price goes up - Look at the Series in the North - Winchester, IRP, Berlin, - Plus Texas fans are ready and willing to pay the price to watch REAL short track racing

[Definitive]

Put the money,it would take to get a series like that,and pump it into the TSRS Series and Pro Late Models.When it comes to the tiny tracks we have there just isn't a big enough difference in the speed to justify it.Jack up the purse money and points fund for TSRS.Let them run 10 inch tires(if I have'nt missed that change already).I think 60-80 thousand pumped into that series would make car counts go up enough to be comparible to other series.If we had a half mile speedway in Texas where the speed difference would be a noticable 10-15 miles per hour it would be worth it.Except for a very small group of us diehard stock car racing fans,most fans wouldn't know the difference between Robert Barker or say,Augie Grill.Pump up our already strong series and make our local stars national stars.Make a Josh Hamner and Augie Grill want to make trips here to race.

 

JMHO from my soap box...

[racedude]

And with that opinion - the SLM racing packed their bags and went further SE - those tracks are thrieving with drivers and fans - Texas tracks are struggling - It is not all about the SPEED dude - It is the drivers like the Augie Grills, Josh Hamners and about thirty others I could list that can handle the speed - have fine equipment and are the foundation of SHORT TRACK RACING If you think pumping prize money into a local series is the answer, you need to ask yourseld why fans are so excited about the NASCAR East drivers coming and why the SNOWBALL Derby is sold out before September with no infield parking left??

[racer61]

Im curious to know why is it always putting 10" tires on the TSRS cars seems to be an answer. What will that do? Raise the cost, yes. Improve the racing, no.

[Truck99]

Im curious to know why is it always putting 10" tires on the TSRS cars seems to be an answer. What will that do? Raise the cost, yes. Improve the racing, no.

 

Agreed

[NickHolt]

Put the money,it would take to get a series like that,and pump it into the TSRS Series and Pro Late Models.When it comes to the tiny tracks we have there just isn't a big enough difference in the speed to justify it.Jack up the purse money and points fund for TSRS.Let them run 10 inch tires(if I have'nt missed that change already).I think 60-80 thousand pumped into that series would make car counts go up enough to be comparible to other series.If we had a half mile speedway in Texas where the speed difference would be a noticable 10-15 miles per hour it would be worth it.Except for a very small group of us diehard stock car racing fans,most fans wouldn't know the difference between Robert Barker or say,Augie Grill.Pump up our already strong series and make our local stars national stars.Make a Josh Hamner and Augie Grill want to make trips here to race.

 

JMHO from my soap box...

 

I disagree that posting big purse money makes a series grow. I have watched this concept fail time and time again over the years. Big money draws big names with big budgets. Little teams with little budgets don't stand a chance and they know it. So they stay home. Next thing you know you have ten cars competing just like before, only now the expense is too large to support the show and, surprise-surprise, it dies.

 

Upchurch had the right idea with TIDA Late Model purse structure. Post a reasonable purse, but not so big that the "big boys" come to town to take the money and move on to the next big-purse show. But not so small a purse that it becomes a disincentive. Upchurch's shows typically drew large, competitive fields and large, profit-generating front gate sales for the host track.

 

I know there are very well-known exceptions, but even NA$CAR is slowly succumbing to the same phenomenon. How many teams have a shot at winning today compared to 15 years ago when purses were more or less reasonable? Sure, the big teams are still making big money and use all their power to sway NASCAR in any way possible, further widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots."

 

From the competitors' point of view, most of us simply want fair rules, fair rules enforcement and a decent place to race. Nothing kills competition quicker than the perception (justified or not) that the track is actually playing favorites or the the rules are stacked. And most of us realize that the rules cannot and should not be left up to the well financed teams to dictate.

 

From the fan point of view, first and foremost they want to see a good, well-run show with even competition and good car counts. That's basically what they are paying to see - competition. Having a big purse invites the well-heeled, national level teams into town. And, more often than not, the competition suffers because of it.

 

Nick

[Waco Racer]

Seems like to me that the TSRS is creating it's own Super Stars. There's plenty of local race winners, Champions, and young guns that fill the grid for each race.

[racer61]

Could not of said it better, actually I could not of said that at all. Well said Nick!!!

[racer61]

Seems like to me that the TSRS is creating it's own Super Stars. There's plenty of local race winners, Champions, and young guns that fill the grid for each race.

But TSRS cannot survive on 15 car fields. Its hard to get sponsorship for a series that cant get a full field. Im not saying that Mary Ann and crew are not trying, because they are. its just that to put on the show that most fans want means large fields, and large sums of money. TSRS is the most inexpensive "latemodel" series that there is on asphalt but it still costs alot to race. I did it all last year. I dont have the funds that some did but had more than others. But a successful night for TSRS should be where after the purse is paid the money left over goes to the next show. But without series sponsorship I bet that isnt happening. Mary Ann pays pretty good for a small field of cars to show up. I would be willing to bet that some of that money comes out of her own pocket too. Its a pretty insane balancing act getting the cars, paying the purses, officials, track rentals, insurance, and not trying to burden the racers with the whole mess.

JMO

[Definitive]

Well,once again I'm sitting here trying to think of a better way to explain my ideas.First off,the ten inch tire thing was just the first thing that came to mind that can universally be changed on the cars to make them a liitle quicker for those of us that like the speed.You complain about the cost of the tire yet you would like Mary Nann to send 80 grand to CRA or someone like that.All I'm saying is build on what is already started.I understand Tavo helping to bring in the West series or the midgets comeing in but to pay all that money for something that we can have right here all of the time is not making any sense.When I talk about adding to the purse structure or points fund I am not talking about just having big purse races to draw out of towners.I am talking about rewarding our own.Yes people get excited when something like that comes to town because it is unique.It shouldn't be unique,we should already have it,like they do in other parts of the country.Upchurch started something great with the TIDA latemodels but,it became stagnet.If the structure of the series or ROMCO or USRA would have increased while we had the car counts,more of our top racers could have stayed home instead of thinking the grass was greener on the other side of the fence.Take TSRS and build it into a CRA OR PASS South or whatever.Do you think the guys out east are fretting over the fact that Casey Smith goes out there and grabs all of their dough?I bet they love the story line and use it to it's fullist when promoting their events.Casey Smith,Greg Davidson,Chris Davidson,T Wade Welch,etc...should be able to stay in Texas to race with the "best" and not travel thousands of miles.Keeping that money here at home isn't just about purses and points funds.You can use it on the facilities,personel,and marketing.

 

It is so hypocritical to read posts on here about the cost of racing for the competitors and the tracks and then read about so many wanting a promotor to shell out that kind of dough for exactly what Nick said we don't want.

 

If what has been done before worked so well,then please tell me where all of the top Texas racers went?

[racer61]

I understand most of what you are saying, but I think to answer the question of where is so and so, why not ask the guys that are not running locally, what would it take to get you to race here. I cant answer that, only they can. Without knowing what it will take to keep them here its all just guessing.

[Definitive]

With the money spent on a touring late model series a promotor could:

 

__Forego any entrance fees

__help pay any insurance premiums

__offset tire costs

__offset fuel cost

__deeper purse structure so all racers can offset their cost a little

__bigger points fund as an insentive to increase regular car counts

 

I'm sure a good imagination could come up with other things...like free race car storage for those that can afford to race but have no place to store or work on a car.

 

I like the big shows,I just wish our regular shows were even bigger.I would rather see 10+ bigger TSRS shows than one stand alone big show.

[97car]

TSRS has put on some good races with the tires they have, when we had the super late models in the hey day I still remember them starting 24 to 34 cars, all it seemed like the 10 inch tires did was cause faster wrecks, most of the time only 10 to 13 cars running at the end of the race total.

[supertx]

TSRS is a great series and at most races last year had pretty good cars counts.But there not a super late model and fans do understand that,Far as locals not having a chance Chris davidson won the big dog cassy smith wins alot back east so don't say our racers can't race with these guys.If you want bigger pursers in TSRS get more of your neighbors and friends in the grand stands,. crowds what pay purses.

[Definitive]

Ok,forget the 10 inch tires.That wasn't my point.Maybe I should have said 30 inch tires so people would understand it was just an example.

 

I never once said TSRS is a bad series,actually my point was just the opposite.TSRS is a good series.I guess an analogy would be Texan fans sitting around hoping for the Cowboys to come to town.TSRS drivers should say,hey,what are we,chopped liver?Why do they always beg for that other series?

 

Who said anything about our local drivers not having a chance in a big race?I was trying to say local racing,on a regular basis,should be big enough to keep them from having to travel to said big events.If you read my post closer you will see I even used Casey as an example of Texas success.

 

I didn't say I wanted bigger purses in TSRS.I was saying,why should our promotors spend tens of thousands of dollars on series with cars that are so close to what we have when they could spend(if they have it) that money on what they have.

 

Can nobody out their think bigger?Are we here in Texas so used to looking out of our state for what we call"big time" that we could never invision it right here?

 

The last few TSRS races at THR were very good.Take that money and really pump the series events up with it.Make the trip to CC Speedway this year the next coming.lol

 

Please don't try to make any suggestions that I think out loud about,on this board,into a bash against any track,driver,promotor,sponsor,etc...I just always hope that all of the above improves with time.

[Blue Moon Motorsports]

Put the money,it would take to get a series like that,and pump it into the TSRS Series and Pro Late Models.When it comes to the tiny tracks we have there just isn't a big enough difference in the speed to justify it.Jack up the purse money and points fund for TSRS.Let them run 10 inch tires(if I have'nt missed that change already).I think 60-80 thousand pumped into that series would make car counts go up enough to be comparible to other series.If we had a half mile speedway in Texas where the speed difference would be a noticable 10-15 miles per hour it would be worth it.Except for a very small group of us diehard stock car racing fans,most fans wouldn't know the difference between Robert Barker or say,Augie Grill.Pump up our already strong series and make our local stars national stars.Make a Josh Hamner and Augie Grill want to make trips here to race.

 

JMHO from my soap box...

 

I disagree that posting big purse money makes a series grow. I have watched this concept fail time and time again over the years. Big money draws big names with big budgets. Little teams with little budgets don't stand a chance and they know it. So they stay home. Next thing you know you have ten cars competing just like before, only now the expense is too large to support the show and, surprise-surprise, it dies.

 

Upchurch had the right idea with TIDA Late Model purse structure. Post a reasonable purse, but not so big that the "big boys" come to town to take the money and move on to the next big-purse show. But not so small a purse that it becomes a disincentive. Upchurch's shows typically drew large, competitive fields and large, profit-generating front gate sales for the host track.

 

I know there are very well-known exceptions, but even NA$CAR is slowly succumbing to the same phenomenon. How many teams have a shot at winning today compared to 15 years ago when purses were more or less reasonable? Sure, the big teams are still making big money and use all their power to sway NASCAR in any way possible, further widening the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots."

 

From the competitors' point of view, most of us simply want fair rules, fair rules enforcement and a decent place to race. Nothing kills competition quicker than the perception (justified or not) that the track is actually playing favorites or the the rules are stacked. And most of us realize that the rules cannot and should not be left up to the well financed teams to dictate.

 

From the fan point of view, first and foremost they want to see a good, well-run show with even competition and good car counts. That's basically what they are paying to see - competition. Having a big purse invites the well-heeled, national level teams into town. And, more often than not, the competition suffers because of it.

 

Nick

 

Well said Nick. Well said.

[NeilTPS]

Nick: I appreciate your supportive comments about how the TIDA-LM program ran races for 10 years.

 

 

Thank you - Neil Upchurch

[Definitive]

Neil...us fans were in heaven when TIDA weekend rolled around.Now...we all follow TSRS around.What actually happened to cause what you started to fade away?What would you do different if you could do it all again?Did bringing the All-Pro series into town help or hurt TIDA.If it helped,was it worth the money spent by the track owners to do so?Is there anyway in the world that the money spent on those events would have been better spent towards building up our local racing?Did anyone build a car specific for that event and then run the TIDA series for any extent afterwards?

 

I guess I'm just looking for the real reason why people think I'm barking up the wrong tree.The responses I've recieved so far lead me to believe nobody understands where I'm going with all of this.

 

Money well spent?

 

For us fans it was money well spent.We got to see one hell of an event.

[NeilTPS]

Definitive: I will attempt to answer and/or comment on some of the elements of your above post.

 

You wrote: "Neil...us fans were in heaven when TIDA weekend rolled around".

 

My comment: Thank you very much. We tried and worked hard to make all 134 TIDA-LM races at a host track well contested and memorable.

 

You asked: "What actually happened to cause what you started to fade away"?

 

My comment: In a word, lack of money from host tracks from which to make the purse and expenses. I tried to compromise our purse total to make it easier on tracks who said they couldn't afford TIDA -LM. The smaller purses resulted in smaller car counts and the end was inevitable.

 

You asked: "Did bringing the All-Pro series into town help or hurt TIDA"?

 

My comment: Yes - it had the effect of over entertaining the market. It also cost tracks more money than TIDA-LM and I think caused tracks to spend a disproportioned amount of money on the "big imported show". If that money had been well spent on TIDA-LM races, the class would have continued to grow and not ceased operation. Also, tracks where TIDA-LM had contested races started to close and they still do 12 years later.

 

You wrote: "For us fans it was money well spent. We got to see one hell of an event". "The responses I've recieved so far lead me to believe nobody understands where I'm going with all of this".

 

My comment: Where are you going?

 

 

I do thank you for caring about the Texas style Super Late Model class of racing and the TIDA-LM's in particular. A class that has apparently had it's day and may never race this way in Texas again.

 

Neil Upchurch

Former President & Race Director

Texas International Drivers Association (TIDA-LM)

[Definitive]

Where I was going was,was it money well spent.By what you have elaborated on I would have to say no it wasn't.As I initially thought,it would have been better spent at home on what we already had,which at the time was TIDA.Now,that class is TSRS or the HMP Pro Late Models.Mr. Upchurch,I thank you very much for your candid and what seemed like very honest replies.BTW does anyone out there remember when Mr.Upchurch was an announcer?...one of the best.