Crazyhorse Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 BASICALLY-THE TAKE OFFS CANNOT BE A DECIDING FACTOR ON THIS ISSUE.(KYLE)S.S. RUN THE 970'S,HOW IS AN 8"OR10" SLICK WORKING THERE? UNLESS YOU ADAPT ALL UNDER CLASSES AT EACH TRACK. IN RESPONSE TO 'VICTORY LANE' T.H.R. IS NOT VERY-GREEN- ANYMORE,AND BETWEEN MYSELF,REEDERS TEAM,AND ISONS CARS THEY CORNERED THE MARKET WITH US. ONE FEATURE WE STARTED 9 CARS, 5 PULLED OFF WITH FLATS DURING THE EVENT.IT BECAME ALMOST THE NORM. SO I'M SAYING, IF I'M THE ONE BUYING THE BULLETS FOR THE GUN,GIVE ME ENOUGH ROPE TO HANG MYSELF PROPPER (10"S OR JUST PUT US ON 970'S) LATER-SHAWN PAUL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 You can take those 970s and make a big fire it'll chase off the bugs. Thats about all they are good for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rocketdog15 Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 I think that the late models should run the 10" tires, they are faster and better handling tires. Also it has been my experience that most racers given a chance always want more. so I don't think that there would be that much of a problem getting most of them to switch. Now, as for the Hoosier F-53, I've run this tire in the sportsman class at San Antonio Speedway for four years and have only cut down 2 tires in that time, not including crashes where your own sheetmetal gets knocked into your own tire. Also, we have bought 2 new tires, run them 1 night on the right side, flipped them over, and run them 1more night, move them to the left side and run them 2 more nights, thus buying two tires every third night. Also there are many teams that never buy new tires, (using takeoffs) and do just fine. Just my two cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckman Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 I agree rocketdog15 the f53s last alot longer than the 970s,we ran 4 TSRS races along with all the practice laps on the last set we put on,one race to many.But I couldn't pass up putting 10" on and running,I think Todd ran with the SA guys and had clearance problems,but that could be worked out if we knew ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjim2 Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 on the racers wanting more everyone does by I think it is the responsibility of the rule makers to findout what the racer can afford I have been involved in rules meetings where the racers voted for a lot of upgrades to the rules and when the season started there were a large percentage of the guys that didn't show because the class was to expensive to run,and these were the same guys that voted for the upgrades in the rules meeting. the 10" tires are not a better handeling tire it requires your car to handle better because the corner speeds are higher and you can blister a car if your set up is not correct.I have tried the 2 tires a week deal on a late model car before and it doesent work as well as on a car with 8"tires all you do is spend all your practice time chasing adjustmentsand the next week you spend your time chasing back the other way.If your running 10" tires at SAS you better buy four or just run on the tires you raced on the week before or untill you can afford to buy four because it does make a differance in performance, espicially when there are guys that will buy four new ones every week.This is my experance not theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted January 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 I'm not sure what you are trying to say here Jim. I have been involved in rules meetings where the racers voted for a lot of upgrades to the rules and when the season started there were a large percentage of the guys that didn't show because the class was to expensive to run,and these were the same guys that voted for the upgrades in the rules meeting. Are you saying that we should not seek input on this tire issue? And once we do get the input that we should not listen to what the teams have to say? the 10" tires are not a better handeling tire it requires your car to handle better because the corner speeds are higher and you can blister a car if your set up is not correct Are you saying that the 10" tires are better or worse than the 8" tires? Not sure what you are trying to say here. We all know that the suspension set up is very important in oval track racing, but do you think the 8" or the 10" tire would help with set ups? Again, I want the input, but I really don't know what you are advocating for here. I have tried the 2 tires a week deal on a late model car before and it doesent work as well as on a car with 8"tires all you do is spend all your practice time chasing adjustmentsand the next week you spend your time chasing back the other way. I don't recall anyone suggesting a two tire a week deal at any TTOPA track. But are you saying that the 8" tires are better than the 10" tires if there were a two tire a week rule? If your running 10" tires at SAS you better buy four or just run on the tires you raced on the week before or untill you can afford to buy four because it does make a differance in performance, espicially when there are guys that will buy four new ones every week.This is my experance not theory. Again, are you saying 10" tires or 8" tires would be better at SAS for the Late Models? I am not complaining, Jim. I know you have a ton of experience and am just trying to get a handle on what you would like to see happen. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted January 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Crazyhorse, BASICALLY-THE TAKE OFFS CANNOT BE A DECIDING FACTOR ON THIS ISSUE Agreed. I do not think TTOPA is considering using a "take-off" rule. What we are looking for is input regarding the relative merits of running the 10" Hoosier slicks verses the 8" Hoosier slicks verses the 8" Hoosier treaded. I think we have pretty much seen that no one is advocating running the 8" Hoosier treaded tire on the LMs at this point. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Nick- I'm sure Jim can speak for himself, but what I got out of his comment was that racers will vote for things they think are neat without necessarily taking into account the total effect on their racing budget, and then not be able to afford to compete. I don't know if that is true or not, but I think that's his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjim2 Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Nic I was repling to rocketdog15 post where he claims the 10" tires are a "better handeling tire" and that " racers always want more"and saying you could buy 2 tires every third night.you can get by on that in the lower clases because the teams dont seem to spend the money on tires that the guys in the upper classes do. All I am saying is if one guy in that class buys 4 tires and has a good car he will probably win if everyone else runs on old tires.This is assuming we are running at SAS with 10" tires.The 8" tires are better after there are heat cycles on them. If you put 2 10" tires on a car at SAS it will give the driver a flawed sence of what the cars handeling is like.I feel that it would be better to put 4 tires on the car or run the same set for two weeks.10" tires do not handle better than 8" tires but I think that your set up better be closer on 10" tires than the 8" tires because of the corner speed diferance. With 8" tires the driver come into play more than on the 10" tires.Races will vote for anything that they think will make there car faster and then complain that it cost to much to run the class the 10 " tire is a more expensive tire than the 8" tire and will make the cars faster. after a half season of buying the 10" tires there will be teams that cant afford the tire biil and just quit racing I know of teams that buy in excess of 90 tires per season multiply that by te the price of 8" and 10" tires and see what the total dollar figure is.If you up the price of tires with out uping the purses there will be teams that will dropout before the end of the year becsuse of the tire cost . Tires cost me more than any other part of my car every year. This is just my opinion coupled with my experence. Others experences may be diffferent.tqj3 got the gist of my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjim2 Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Sorry I did not mean to post the same thing twice. It was good to see Nic, Chuck,Bruce and Reb at he fascar meeting this afternoon and I hope you guys can attend more meeeting in the future.Sorry I had to leave early but had a previous engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildRacer5 Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 is there anyway that cost or added expence not be a factor? In this situation someone will get the shaft, but in 3-5 years it will be a benifit for all to give a "little" now. On another note - If all the tracks intead to run the same tire vs 3 tracks running completely different tires could/ would the TTOPA get a "wholesale" type deal from the tire makers and sell at a reduced cost to raceteams at all 3 tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerjim2 Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 From what I understand the profit margin on tires are very small to start with,You have to sell a lot to make a little.In San Antonio race tires are not purchaced from the track they are purchaced from an outside company.I believe thunderhill does not sell tires as well.To get into the tire business there is some eqipment to be purchaced, inventory to be purchaced and hve a place to store the tires, and you have to get someone to mount the tires.Couple that with small profit margins and it doesent sound so attractive to a track manager.I think the way to make rascing grow is to make the classes more afforadable.A less expensive tire would make it easier for the guys with less to compete I choose to run the late model series on 10" tires but the less expensive tire in the lower divisions could get more people involved thus giving the uperclasses a base to draw from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasman Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 I am a bottom line type guy. If they decide to go with the 10" tire and the cost difference hurts you, you dont need to be racing in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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