NickHolt Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Randy Lee brought up an interesting idea in another thread about his recent experience driving his new Pro4 Mustang in California. He was suggesting that someone organize a Pro4 series in Texas. Hmmmm.... Of course, the first person I called about this was Neil Upchurch who runs the Texas Pro Sedan series. MORE OR LESS THE ENSUING PHONE CONVERSATION: Nick: So, what do you think about Randy's idea? Neil: If there were enough Pro4 cars around to start a series, I might be interested in orgainizing a Pro4 division of the TPS. Nick: You would?????????? Neil: Sure, why not? But we would need to find out how many Pro4 cars there are in Texas and the surrounding states first. A lot would depend on how much interest there is out there and how many cars we could count on at first until the Pro4's catch on. Nick: What's this "we" stuff? Neil: I'm not doing this all by myself, Nick... Nick: Well, OK. What if I ask on TSZ and see what people have to say about the idea and how many Pro4's there are around these parts. Neil: Sounds good to me. Go ahead. So, let us know what you think. And point us towards anyone you know who has a Pro4 car in the Texas area (maybe even in the Southwest). My email is nick@texasspeedzone.com and Neil's is nupchur@aol.com. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt5858 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Whats the difference between Pro Sedans and Pro4. I seen Randys car on one of the past topics. What a beautiful car. Also what does it cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted October 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 A Pro4 car is pretty much a super late model with a four-cylinder engine. About 25k to build a front-runner. Very innexpensive to maintain because they are so light. Tires last several races, etc. There are a couple variations to the rules, but you get the idea. These cars are very fast and can turn on a dime. They would would be able to run two gooves at Kyle for instance. TPS cars are oil pan cars. No quick changes. Couple of hunderd pounds heavier. Narrower tires. Limited engine set back. Limited carburation. About half the TPS cars are front wheel drive. Of course, TPS cars are both inexpensive to build and maintain. You can put a competitive one together for 2-3k, although you can certainly spend more than that if you have a mind to. The class originally started out 28 years ago as street VW Bugs with a roll cage, but it has evolved over the years and now features cars that have coil over suspensions and real racing engines. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDaddy Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Randy's car on the earlier thread was a dang good looking car. What would lap times be compared to a super latemodel at THR? SAS? CCS? Just wandering since they have a four cylinder but are a lot lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD2 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 THE TPS FRONT RUNNING CARS POST A 17.8s AT KYLE AND A 21.8s IN SA WITH 34MM RESTRICTOR PLATES NOT BAD FOR 4 BANGERS. AS FAR AS THE RULES ARE , THE RULES ALLOW ANYONE WHO WANTS TO BUILD A SUPER CAR TO DO SO IF THEY WISH TO SPEND THE DOLLARS. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS NEWER STYLE BODIES DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY ARE FRONT OR REAR WHEEL DRIVE UNDER THE SKIN THAT'S UP TO OWNER BUT NICE LOOKING CARS. ALSO IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF THE BODY AND ENGINE TYPE DOES NOT MATCH. A LITTLE MORE OF A PURSE AND A END OF SEASON POINT FUND WOULD NOT BE BAD EITHER. NOW THAT WOULD MAKE THE CLASS GROW. AS FOR A STRICKLY PRO 4 YOU CAN NOT BEAT THE TPS ORGANIZATION , MAYBE JUST DROP THE SEDAN OFF THE TPS NAME. AS FAR AS THE TPS IT'S A CHEAP WAY TO GO RACING BUT AS WEVE SEEN IN THE LAST COUPLE YEARS A FEW PEPOLE HAVE BUILT SOME REALLY TOP NOTCH CARS THE 2 , 6 , 27, AND 30. WELL I'VE GOTTA STOP NOW GOT TO GET THE 2 CAR READY FOR TOMORROW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 As soon as Randy mentioned it, I thought it would be cool to see a class like that in Texas. I looked at the Orange Show website, and there are a variety of bodies on those cars also. Unfortunately, I don't think our team could afford to field a car, but I would love to see them run around here. cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted October 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 HoosierDaddy, I'm not sure where JD2 got his lap times, but I have timed just about every practice and competition lap that TPS has run over the past two years, so I feel pretty good about the times I am posting below. At San Antonio Speedway the Pro4 cars would likely be 2 seconds faster than a front-running Pro Sedan. The TPS record at SAS is 21.3 and the fast cars race in the upper 21's, which would mean the Pro4 cars would likely be turning in the mid to upper 19's at SAS. At Thunder Hill the Pro Sedan record is 16.490 and the fast cars turn high 16's during the race. I estimate that a well set-up Pro4 could lap Kyle at in the low 15's. At CC Speedway, the Pro Sedans turn in the mid 15's. Take at least a second off that for a Pro4. At Houston the Pro Sedans race in the mid 16's which means that a fast Pro4 would likely turn in the mid 15's, or better. JD2... We are working on that end of season point fund, but sponsors are hard to come by these days. And the purse for the SAS race tomorrow isn't too shabby.. $500 to win, 350 for second, 300 for third, 275 for fourth, 250 for fifth, 200 for sixth and take $10 off through 10th place. 12th through the end of the field pays 120. Granted, that's not much compared to ROMCO, but it sure isn't bad... Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDish2 Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 I think JD2 meant 16.8 at kyle and 21.8 those are some off the times they qualified this year at THR and SAS. Also the times are posted on the texasprosedans.com website. Also needs to be mentioned that the TPS records were set with cars with no restrictor plate either. You take 5000lbs and restrictor plates off some of the cars and add 10 inch tires like the Pro-4 run a couple of TPS the cars could possibly run some of the times Nick listed below. Like JD2 said and talking to some of other racers you can't beat the TPS organization. A reasonably cheap class with lots of competition. But just like any other racing class the more money you spend usually the faster the car. Keep up the good the work on the website some great info always gets passed on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Just my two cents,it would save me some approx 500lbs of lead that I am estimating to have to buy,not knocking TPS either,it has been around a long while and the rules have been consistent and fair,and over the past few years the pay has increased from what it used to be. A quick change rearend would be nice if I could afford one also,but got to get what I have been converting over done first. The car drove unlike any car that I have drove when it was on dirt,it weighed 1892 with driver and fuel,it was a mod 4,like a IMCA anly smaller engine was about the same as Randys car,at some of the dirt tracks with hoosier dots on 8 inch wheels they were faster than the V8 IMCA mods. 10 inch wheels would be neat,but like everything cost more to get initially. Would be a cheaper alternative to late models and still would be fast,with less tire wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted October 10, 2003 Report Share Posted October 10, 2003 Hey put Elmer Gene in his car too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted October 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 97car, Just to make sure we're on the same page here.. Neil and I are not talking about changing the existing TPS class to become a Pro4 class. We're talking about possibly adding the Pro4 class to the organization if there is enough interest. Two seperate series under the same administration. I really think the 4-cylinder racing is about to take off nationwide. Just look around the streets of any US city. Those souped up Hondas and Mitsubishis are just about like the '57 Chevys of my day and the Carmaros and Firebirds of the 80's and 90's. All pumped up both in the engine and suspension departments. It won't be long before those guys will be looking for a place to race... Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Yes Nick,I understand,I think it would be a neat show,some of us could change tires and wheels and remove weight and possibly run both. What did the mini outlaws turn CC speedway in? In this concept I think it would be wise to keep the single carb rule economic wise. The cars may actually be easier to build in the long run,rather than folding up a uni-body and having to totally rebuild with a new car,also this might interest some of the stock bodied classes to start at and build up to.This could be marketed as two shows in one package if interest is good enough,with a little work it could give some purpose to some late-models with a little changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbeaver087 Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 nick , iva seen these pro4s race in the northwest and they are fast , and yes i think the tps will run good with the pro4s but in the pro4s in the rules you can only run rear wheel drive . ive seen pintos , stangs and ford and chevys cut down to fit the pro4 chassis. just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Another subject, good qualifying run Randy,you were faster than the majority of the field with the exception of a few,your car looks sharp,but is noticeably narrower than a lot of the cars there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 I think it would be a great idea! It might take a little while to get it started, but I think it would work. 13.16 was the fast time for the Pro-4 race at Orange Show. I am not sure what the track record is, but I am sure that is not too far off. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildRacer5 Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 I, like everyone else think that the idea of a Pro4 series is great. the TPS series would make a logical choice as a feeder series. Start with a TPS, then move to Pro4 then to TAMS, TSRS or ROMCO. Might also be another way to get the truck bodies that a few of us have been talking about in the past into TPS. Nick, just a question, Why was Neil semingly more interested in a Pro4 series at not that much on running a TPS truck series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDish2 Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Just a couple of things I'd like to throw out; why not just make the TPS class a Late model LITE type body style racing class with 4 cylinder engines with least at least a body within 15 yrs old no matter front or rear wheel drive. Like the LMLpro4.com class you can run any engine that you decide to run as long as you run a Late model lite type body i.e. VW with a Monte Carlo body as long as the appearance meets a Late model lite type approval or any other type of combo. They also run front and rear-wheel drive cars so it should not be that big of a change for everyone to comply within a certain time period i.e. by the end of 2004 race year in the TPS class. Because the main objective is to put fans in the stands and with a good looking class of cars on the track the fans will come. Just an opinion, that's what the website is all about spreading new or old ideas. Good luck everybody @ OktoberFast tomorrow. Thanks Racing Fan Bryce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDish2 Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Hoosier Daddy, I'm not sure what Randy's car would run here at THR or SAS but I know the weight is about 3000lbs difference between the #2 Jack Dishman's or #6 Tony Johnson's mustangs in the TPS Class and Randy's Pro-4 he built to run out in Cali. Why not just make the class newer type body styles like the LMLpro4.com. I know I'm beating a dead horse but the fans want to see nice looking cars racing. The better the cars the more fans and eventually the better the purse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 but I know the weight is about 3000lbs difference between the #2 Jack Dishman's or #6 Tony Johnson's mustangs 3000 pound difference? Was that supposed to be 300 pounds? cs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDish2 Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 It's around 3000lbs because I know the #2 TPS car has to weight 2572 and Randy took his PRO-4 to Cali weighing around 2100 or 2200lbs that's the rules for their class on orangeshowspeedway.net BigDish2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDish2 Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 CS, Thanks your right its around 300-400lbs. The whole car doesn't even weight 3000lbs. I don't know where I got that extra zero. BigDish2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted October 11, 2003 Report Share Posted October 11, 2003 Yes their rules are 2000 lbs for a iron head,and 2100 for a aluminum head,then the carb and engine size factor any other weight additions or deletions.That track looked pretty short,but 13.571 is good for a 1/4 mile oval much less 13.1whatever the pole was,there are cars aroound that could fit this class,and there are some for sale else where that are a lot more reasonable too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racechaser Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Just to quickly share, I used to live in the San Berdoo area, so am quite famaliar w/ the MSRA Pro-4/Modified Pony cars as they are or were known there in my time out there. The Promoter had them there for a performance in "93" and the top lap times were in the high 12's. I'd be willing to bet that if there were records kept they were probably skewered by rifts between current management and the long passed away former promoter whom employed the current track manager as track announcer and his wife as chief scorer. A question for Randy; what shape (smooth/rutted/grainy) was the racing surface when you competed at the ol' track?? Would you race at that track again?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 I am pretty sure Randy will concur, but I think that track was re-done recently. At least the last few years anyway, to include the turns and banking. Randy would probably give you the best answer though. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasman Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Another touring series??? Wouldnt it take cars away from the existing class and make two small touring classes??? Wouldnt this hurt local classes weekly classes??? Why would a track book this series when it is hurting its local weekly classes? One of these days, probably real soon, these tracks are going to get together and quit booking so many touring series, then where will they run? Why not spend the $25,000 on a late model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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