Trailerman Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 We under stand the need in ARTS for the 350 crate motors. The current 305cid motors cost 5-6k for a good competitive motor to run in ARTS. Which stinks at best. The problem is: Should an experimental larger cubic inch motor be allowed to run the full race with out A) adding extra weight B)smaller carb C)trying to level the playing field in some form or fashion? Maybe have that experimental combo pull off with 2-5 laps to go if they are spanking the rest of the field that bad. It would be like TSRS allowing a front runner to run that 8K crate motor with the rest of the field. In all fairness, The Garretts are doing a great job with ARTS and no doubt will "save the ship" They told us we will receive the points etc. for the win when we came in the pits but its my Team that deserves the credit. Especially for the first win. Joe PS looking forward to gettin that crate engine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin35251 Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 you knew exactly what the reason was for todd running the crate motor...why you make it look like he was doing something illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailerman Posted September 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Kevin First words. experimental.........no one complaining there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 And no one was complaining earlier in the year when Tommy Freeman was running a crate motor and trying to get the bugs out of the idea. The crate motor may have more cubic inches than the "legal" motor, but that doesn't mean it has more power. The idea of using the crate motors isn't to go faster, but to reduce costs in the series. In addition, the THR announcers told the crowd when Freeman was running the crate motor and would have done the same on Saturday if they had been announcing the ARTS race and had known Todd was running a crate motor. (I didn't hear the race call on the ARTS race well enough on Saturday to know if the same thing was done or not, or if the announcer was even aware that Todd was running a crate motor.) Congratulations on a good run on Saturday. That's your second strong run in two races. Good luck in San Antonio and Houston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivicic Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Sounds like Todd had a big advantage over all trucks. If ARTS knew he had a bigger motor he should of had to start at the rear not the front. That would have made for a really good race. Starting on pole and leading every lap is more like a Romco running with TSRS and starting on pole. I think it's a great idea to find a solution to cutting cost. So who gets credit for the win? Points? Money? The fans sure had the wool pulled over their eyes if Todd is indeed not the winner. Maybe Jon will help explain this to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car05 Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Come on people its not like Todd has ever run at the back with a 305. He has always done well with his truck. I dont think the 350 had anything to do with it. MC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 WE ALL KNEW HE HAD IT. HES KICKED OUR REAR WITH A 305 BEFORE. CONGRATS TO HIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jont66 Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 I TRY TO STAY OUT OF THE TYPE DISCUSSIONS, BECAUSE THEY ARE GENERALLY JUST A WASTE OF TIME. The wool was not pulled over anyone's eyes, all the drivers knew he had the engine, he had the engine in the previous race. NO TODD did not have a big advantage over the rest of the trucks. Todd also had this engine in at Houston 2 weeks ago. Did he win that race? NO Not only did he not win, but he was beaten by a FORD, (they claim to be underpowered) Also he didn't even have the fastest lap of the race in Houston, that would be the 19 truck of Joe Napoleon. Mr Napoleon ran faster times 3 years ago than Todd ran saturday with a 350. 16.24 in September of 2000. While the motor has more cubic inches, it has less lift on the cam, less compression, a big heavey balancer on the front, stock GM distributor, stock rocker arms. While it's advertised at 350hp with a 4 barrell, we run it with a 2-barrell which brings it down to most motors in the top 5. (around 320hp) JON GARRETT ARTS - LONE STAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivicic Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Jon, Thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Jon, It's always good to hear from the man at the top. Thanks for clearing this up for us. I can sure empathize with you since in TPS we have just about as many engine configurations as there are cars! It's a handful keeping the cars relatively equal. I think you are very wise to run a few crate motors beside the 305's before making everyone change to them. I TRY TO STAY OUT OF THE TYPE DISCUSSIONS, BECAUSE THEY ARE GENERALLY JUST A WASTE OF TIME. Not a waste of time from my perspective, Jon. A lot of good has resulted from several of these sorts of discussions here on TSZ. One such thread ended up with the General Manager of San Antonio Speedway meeting with a group of concerned individuals who came up with many suggestions that Mr. Sepich has already integrated into his program at the track. Another similar thread resulted in very productive meeting with Brian Callaway at Thunder Hill Raceway. And I am aware that many of the "powers that be" involved in the touring series read TSZ on a regular basis and several have commented to me privately that they obtain valuable feedback by reading comments posted here. As you know, several of them, including you, have posted here in the past. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin35251 Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Maclemore posts win with 350 engine?, rule book states 305cid That is where i was coming from with the illegal part. You knew exactly what he was doing, but from this it looks like you had no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Kevin we all know your good buddies with Todd and his crew. Lets just get that out in the air. We will all side with who we know and who we will pull for. Just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckLicata Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 In addition, the THR announcers told the crowd when Freeman was running the crate motor and would have done the same on Saturday if they had been announcing the ARTS race and had known Todd was running a crate motor. (I didn't hear the race call on the ARTS race well enough on Saturday to know if the same thing was done or not, or if the announcer was even aware that Todd was running a crate motor.) TQ and all.. I did the announcing for ARTS as a personal favor to Jon Garrett. No, I did not know Todd was running a crate motor, I had not been told that when consulting with ARTS officials before the race. Just FYI...and, TQ, you bring up a very good point about announcers being aware of what's going on..I'm applaud Big Jim being on top of things and announcing Freeman's running of the crate motor back then. Way to stay on top of things! p.s.--maybe next time you can give me the points standings, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin35251 Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 that is not exaclty the case, if todd were to do that to somone else i wouldnt keep my mouth shut about it. On the other hand Good job to both Joe and Todd along with everyone else that ran last saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted September 29, 2003 Report Share Posted September 29, 2003 Chuck- My point was that Big Jim and I knew about Tommy running a crate motor, and told the crowd, but I wasn't at all sure you knew about Todd. I did think if you had known Todd was running one, you would have said something as well. We didn't know Todd was running a crate motor, either, by the way, and I only knew Tommy was running one because he told me. You're also right about announcers not getting enough information from series, drivers and sometimes tracks. And you should have the points standings before every race. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckLicata Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Chuck- My point was that Big Jim and I knew about Tommy running a crate motor, and told the crowd, but I wasn't at all sure you knew about Todd. I did think if you had known Todd was running one, you would have said something as well. TQ, That's exactly right, I would have announced it if I had known. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thread Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 It sure was nice to see a ARTS race with no accidents. I can appreicate promotors wanting to help the owners and drivers by tying to find a way to help elimante the cost of motorsports. No matter what you race, Price is always a concern outside of the purse. The 350 engine is exactly what it is, (since it's not in the rule book) experimental. Yes these motors have been tested through out the season. In my opinion (for what it's worth) regardless of how the engine performed good or bad, they should not be allowed to receive the points, money etc.. that would be the choice that the owner and driver would have to make. (if they don't worry about the points) If these motors do well or bad, people will raise an eyebrow regardless. Are these motors purchased through the ARTS promotor,or are the allowed to purchase them through GM ? Hopefully they will work out the concerns of the crew, drivers and the future of truck owners before people invest a whole lot of time and money one way or the other.... Good Luck to All in SA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 I understand there are three drivers in ARTS running the crate motors, Todd, Tommy and the #8 of Jeff Rosenbeck. The crate motors are experimental, but for this season, they are apparently an alternative engine as well. Tommy, I thought I understood you to say you bought your motor direct. Are they coming from GM, or through Jon Garrett? Either way, they do promise to same some bucks, as they cost less (about $3,100 each, according to Garrett) and should last longer. Fewer blown engines also means more trucks on the track and a better show for the fans. Let's not forget, we're in the entertainment business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUmscheid 51 Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 everyone, i dont care whose team im on but i can tell you one thing, todd mclemore did not gain any speed from changing over to the crate motor he ran the same times that he has always run at kyle. And also i dont agree with you joe on the title of the convo.....mclemore wins with 350 crate motor rule states 305......if you are going to try to start a problem about the crate motor aim it at the series not at one individual. everyone here that knows me knows that i hardly ever start trouble with anyone but you cant sit there and honestly say that you are hurting on horsepower. i along with my brother jc and my father david put many hours into fine tuning chassis' and ,im not trying to advertise for anyone, we have always had faithful and pwerful motor programs thanks to Jimmy and J.R. im not sure who sets up your equipment but i can tell you one thing no matter how well your equipment is put together you still have to drive it. No matter what todd gets in he drives it the same 110%. He has had trouble this year and when we finally get something right we get critcized.........i dont appreciate it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 MUmscheid 51, If you will go back through the posts in this thread, it seems to me that the subject is not Todd McLemore. It is the ARTS-Lonestar rules and the status of the crate motors in the series. You might be a tad sensitive about this I think. Joe was just bringing up the whole issue, not criticizing Todd. Actually, I believe that Jon is going about this in the right way by running the experimental engines before making any major rules change. The issue of who gets points, trophies and prize money probably should have been laid out in advance, but hey, Monday morning quarterbacks don't throw interceptions. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundogC3 Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 IN TH RULE BOOK UNDERGENERAL RULES IT STATES: CONTINUOUS DEVELOPMENT IN RACING MAY NECESSITATE CHANGES THAT CANNOT BE ANTICIPATED AT THE TIME RULES ARE FORMULATED. HENCE, IF NECESSARY, RULES MEY BE UPDATED, MODIFIED, ADDED TO, OR DELETED AT ANY TIME, AS NEEDED. NEED I SAY MORE. I ACCEPT THE 350,IT GOING TO BE THE WAVE OF THE FUTURE IN MOTORSPORTS. JUST MY 2CNTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzy88 Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 well said Gunnar, By the way Joe, are you now going to start supporting the ARTS series, or just race every now and then?? If you are, are YOU going to be racing with ARTS at San Antonio this weekend ?? Colby Tipton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedracer Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 I used to race in the Parts Pro trucks on the east coast and we went from 305 engines to crate motors and we found out that the 305 engines are faster if you build a good one. especially on small tracks like Thunder hill. I don't know many of you drivers but what it sounds to me is that todd just the right setup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin35251 Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 If you will go back through the posts in this thread, it seems to me that the subject is not Todd McLemore Somewhat true, but I believe that michael and I are both refering to the name of the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted September 30, 2003 Report Share Posted September 30, 2003 Kevin35251, If you have a problem with my comments, please feel free to email me or PM me. Thanks Kevin. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.