BobRiley Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 In another thread...Josh wanted to compare the high cost of QM to a Legends. A new Legend is around $12000-13000, a good used one around $8000-9000. The new sealed engine from 600 Racing is around $5000, with a Hank Scott engine in the $6000-7500. That's not cheap. A QM new is around $4000, with a competitive Honda engine around $800 and a good alchol engine around $2500 to 3000. Not cheap either. Still dollar for dollar, I think QM is still the best way to go for an under 14 year old kid. Ask Casey Smith, Mark Martin, or Bobby Labonte, they were in QM or have their kids in it. ...I really don't care what you get into, just do it with your kids if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RandyBorlace Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 yeah, but i bet legends are more fun. plus, does a legends engine have to be refreshened every other month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted July 26, 2003 Report Share Posted July 26, 2003 That's not the only advantage Legends and Bandoleros have over quarter midgets. How about where and when can you race, and against what kind of competition? There are only a couple of tracks for quarter midgets in Texas (though, luckily, two are in Austin and San Antonio), but you can race Legends and Bandoleros at any short track that wants to hold a race. There's also the question of organization. A buddy of mine is trying to get into quarter midgets, but he keeps going to the track only to find they aren't there, though a race or practice was scheduled. The Legends and Bandoleros have a better chance of attracting sponsorship, and they run where the "big cars" run, which for a lot of racing families could mean throwing the Bandolero or Legends car in the trailer with the late model or street stock and heading out to the local short track. Quarter midgets have to run on their own tracks. Racing is never cheap, but some ways cost less than others and offer more opportunity. Maybe an indicator is the number of NASCAR drivers who have their kids racing in Bandoleros and Legends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted July 27, 2003 Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 Well as a response to to Bob Riley on the cost of 1/4 midgets. In the open wheel magazine that used to be out in publication and they did a cost comparison on racecars and at that time on cost per cubic in price there was only car class that was more costly than 1/4 midgets and that was indycars. I will tell you Bob I was in 1/4 midgets for 8 years won 6 track championships and a regional championship. But the question I have for you is how come when I came out to the race this year and your sanction race there wasn't very many trailers that were under 24 to 28 ft long and thats for one car. Iraced against Casey and had lots of fun doin it but people today think you have to had the best stuff to run up front but we had a 22 yr old car and a motor that was built by my father and ran up front with a bunch of the real fast cars. Your also talking about buying new cars Bob anyone can go pickup used legend cars for cheaper than what you quoted and they dont have to have the best motors in the cars to learn. Hell you can go buy a race ready dwarfcar for 4500 bucks and go race it that night. In Fact let me ask you this Bob between the 1/4 midgets you owned and the legend car you own at this point or did own what have you spent more money on? I quarntee it was your 1/4 midget way over your legend. I can tell you for the 8 yrs I ran 1/4's compared to the 7 yrs we ran dwarfs we spent more on 1/4's than we did the dwarf. An one more question I have to ask before I let this post end after a tiresome night At THR were we ran our ARTS truck. Exactly how big was your trailer that you bought to carry ONE 1/4 midget to the races that you raced at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRiley Posted July 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2003 Fellows...lighten up on me, I'm not trying to have heated debate with anyone on this subget. To answer a previous question, I had a 22' enclosed trailer for my one car and equiptment. When the 2nd and 3rd car came around, we did get a bigger trailer, one big enough to carry a truck or late model, which every class we wanted to run in the future. I doubt if Legends will run at THR next year, Houston and TMS run on the same night so there's a conflict of interest with the dealership vs THR. The Mini-Cups are nice; but it's a follow the leader race, who every makes it into turn 1 wins. Not so with QM. I'm glad Josh did real well with QM's and won several championships. I ask, if you had it to do all over, would you do the same thing or differently? Dwarf might be the better route to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin4life00 Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 BOB, JUST WONDERING HOW U KNOW HOW MUCH LEGENDS COST TO RUN. SOUNDS LIKE U HAVE ONE BUT NEVER HAVE RACED IT. I KNOW MEMBERS IN S.A. THAT SPEND MAJOR MONEY RACING 1/4S. OVER 50,OOO DOLLARS A YEAR. I RAN A FULL SEASON IN LEGENDS TRAVELED AND ONLY SPENT LESS THAN 10K THAT YEAR. FINISHED IN THE TOP TEN IN TEXAS THAT YEAR. SOUND TO ME YOU ARE EITHER SCARED OR BROKE OR BOTH. YOU DONT HAVE TO HAVE ALOT OF MONEY TO RUN LEGENDS. THE KIDS THAT DRIVE FOR ME HAVE FUN JUST RACING. THEY ARE STILL HAPPY EVEN IF THEY DONT RACE UPFRONT. THEY ARE OUT HAVING FUN WITH WHAT THEY HAVE. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CLUB IN AUSTIN? IT WAS A DOING WELL ABOUT 3-4 YEARS AGO. LIKE THE LAST GUY SAID NOBODY EVER RACES UP THERE ANYMORE. IF U WANT TO SEE ANYKIND OF GOOD 1/4 MIDGETS RACES GO TO S.A. FOR THEM. WHY HAS THE MEMBERSHIP DECLINED IN AUSTIN? I COULD REMEMBER GOING UP THERE AND HAD ALOT OF RACERS THERE TO RACE. BOB MAYBE U ARE BETTER OFF AND BUYING YOUR KID A TROPHY. WHAT WOULD U DO IF 1/4 MIDGETS RAN ONLY ONE MOTOR. WHERE WOULD YOU BE? PROBABLY SITTING ON THE COMP TALKING TRASH LIKE NOW. P.S. DID YOUR KID GET ANYTHING OUT OF Q.M. RUNNING WITH JUST 2-3 CARS IN THE CLASS. I"M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE OUTHER 2 BREAKING AND WINNING THE RACE. FOR ANYBODY THAT WHATS TO RUN Q.M. THE PLACE TO JOIN IS S.A.. I HEAR THERE ARE A BONCH OF SQUIRRELS IN AUSTIN CLUB. MAYBE THATS WHY THERE ARE NO MEMBERS. YOU GET OUT ONLY WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT. IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT IT IS. HAVE U PRICED A SHOCK FOR A Q.M. LATELY. LEGENDS ARE CHEAPER PLUS IF YOUR KID IS GOOD AND VERY YOUNG WHERE ELSE CAN HE MOVE UP TO BUT LEGENDS. IT CALLED MOVING UP THE LATTER BOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Hey Bob to answer your question of if I was to do it all over again whould i do it differnt. NOPE!!! Well put Racin I agree totally with you just askin did you race 1/4's when I did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRiley Posted July 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 In another thread...Josh wanted to compare the high cost of QM to a Legends. A new Legend is around $12000-13000, a good used one around $8000-9000. The new sealed engine from 600 Racing is around $5000, with a Hank Scott engine in the $6000-7500. That's not cheap. A QM new is around $4000, with a competitive Honda engine around $800 and a good alchol engine around $2500 to 3000. Not cheap either. Still dollar for dollar, I think QM is still the best way to go for an under 14 year old kid. Ask Casey Smith, Mark Martin, or Bobby Labonte, they were in QM or have their kids in it. ...I really don't care what you get into, just do it with your kids if you can. Racin...Seems I've lost your line of thought, one minute I'm scared and boke, talking trash, about the cost of Legends, then we jump to the squirrels in Austin, back to the kids in Legends haveing fun, then moving up the ladder with Josh agreeing with you. O yea, Josh said he started in QM and wouldn't change anything he did. What's the beef? I said dollar for dollar QM was the best way to go for a kid under 14. That's my opion. I can't see a green 11 year old in a Legends race, too dangerous. Put them in a QM for the experience than move up to what ever. I questioned Legends/Bandoleros, and I still do; but that doesn't make me a trash talker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 OK time to compare prices of some parts and some of this is shocking!!!! Shocks for a 1/4 midget Trimble shocks 75.00 each Trimble air shocks 105.00 each - both prices courtesy of A&J racing 2-qwik shocks 249.00 each - courtesy sherman racing enterprises these shocks are only about a foot long if that Shocks for legend car Bilstein which all cars have to run same shock :75.00 each Shocks on our racetruck which are QA1 were 95.00 each Titanium rear axle for 1/4 midget 450.00 non splined 500.00 splined-- prices courtesy of sherman racing We're getting a rearend for our truck for something like 150.00 10 bolt gm Titanium Brake Rotor 5 in diameter 65.00- prices courtesy of sherman racing Carb for 1/4 midget Ibea Slide carb 425.00 Tillitson Modified Pumper Carb 550.00 Intake manifold for pumper 192.50-- prices courtesy of Hawkins Performance Carb for our racetruck Holley 4412 500 cfm 2 barrel 219.99 Edelbrock performer rpm intake 129.99 all trucks have to run same carb and intake on gm motors Cam for a "AA" 1/4 midget engine 215.00 from shelton engines cranks are 295.00 from shelton engines remember these are one cylinder engines like on a lawn mower Cam for our racetruck from Comp Cams that everyone has to run with GM motor 80.00 Crankshaft can pick up a decent crank for 150 to 200 Engine prices i saw on motors for 1/4 midgets Hawkins D slant B motor: 4,500 to 5,000 Deco/Grand Mod Motor: 2800.00 Deco Grand B motor: 2,700 to 3,000 Legends motor 1300cc sealed motor :3,999 from 600 racing Racetruck motor we just bought 350 gm performance parts crate motor 3,100.00 from Rose City Racing some of the 305's out there running have maybe 4000.00 in the motors Tires on the 1/4 midgets cost 49.95 for right side tires now thats not bad prices but some people will put a set of right side tires on and go run practice then put new ones on for qualifying then new ones for practice again then new ones on for the race.so you figure 49.95x2 for right side tires then x4 for the amount of times they put new tires on the car thats 399.60 for one night of racing in tire bills. Okay we pay 95 to 100 for hoosier 970 arts tires and we can get at least 3 to 4 races out of right side tires and thats goin 12 lap heats and 50 lap mains not including the hot laps and qualifying we run before the races. When I raced 1/4 midgets we had two sets of tires and when we ran "AA" which for those of you who dont know is like the late models of 1/4 midgets the baddest and fastest class in 1/4 midgets. We ran the same set of tires for half a year and were as fast if not faster than the ones that were changing their tires all the time. If you dont believe me you can ask RandyBorlace, Racin4Life00, Tommy42 they can tell you that that is a fact. I can remember goin to Topeka, Kansas running "AA" up there and running with Eric Covington (who runs ROMCO now) and Billy Tanner and they were running on new tires and I had year old tires running 5.39 seconds (for those who have never seen the track it is 1/20 of a mile) and was faster than the two of them. To bad it stuck a valve with 10 laps to go. An a question for you Bob is why would you stick a 11 yr old in a legend anyway that doesnt have experience? That would be plain stupid you stick them in a bandalero first. The reason I wouldnt change anything from when I ran 1/4 midgets was because of the fun I had doing it and the knowledge I took away from there was a lot. The beef I have with 1/4 midgets is that the price of some the stuff has gotten way out of hand from when I started back in the day. I or my father bought my first car for $900.00 and we carried it in the back of 500.00 chevy van. That car was 22 yrs old and we built the motors ourselves and won 4 track championships with that car. Now I can understand spending that kind of money that some of these people are spending today if they were getting something in return but all they are getting is trophy's and no money in return. I know just like everyone else the only way to make money in racing is to start out with a whole lot and then sale everything real expensive and you might make some money but at least if you spend that kind of money you should get something in return. I mean i thougt to myself when i went out to the region race earlier this year is that in a few years there is gonna be a bunch of 30 to 45 ft trailers for sale cause some of these kids wont be racing after they get out of 1/4 midgets. Another question for you Bob is that you talk as if your unsure about legends and talk sorta bad about them then how dome your always at THR supporting them. Oh and this question is for Randy Borlace, What have you guys spent more money on your current racecar or your 1/4 midget? And whatever happen to that old car of mine you had bought back from that one guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thread Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Regardless of the price, or series you choose to race with, any time you can spend with your child is the best thing money can't buy. Being a former quarter midget racer, We were your average family whom didn't spend the money, (for we didn't have it) Trailer we had was convereted from an old boat trailer. Regardless, my point is.. My memories were made with my parents. The time they spent with me. They gave up their time and money for ME. People complained about prices back then. It's what the family or person can afford. NO matter what series you run, you are always going to have some one out money the situation. It's that simple. Heck for that matter I've seen a 40 foot trailer pull up and roll one go kart out...... Now, remember it's not the kids buying this stuff. It's the parents.. You want to price competition price all star baseball, cheerleading, band, and the list goes on.. Take the time with your kids, do the best you can do. and don't critize their ability, because after all it's their memory they will take with them for years to come.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted July 28, 2003 Report Share Posted July 28, 2003 Thread-you hit it the nail on the head-the time with the kids racing was the greatest-i knew where they were at all times-i think this is enough on this subject-i hope this is the last post on this back and forth gettin nowhere subject-race what you want-just have some fun and be safe what ever it is- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRiley Posted July 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 Tommy...I'm going to let it die also. I'm glad "mad dog" is still doing well, you were hell on the QM track. Racer is really a 18 year old kid who likes to write sarcastic remarks on web pages under an allias, yes you raced against him. He does it to the Austin QM site all the time so I'm use to seeing it. I'm dissapointed in Josh, he's better than that. I would like to support the Legends; but just can't handle being lied to by BG and 600. I'll look for something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin4life00 Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 BOB, QUESTIONS FOR YOU. DO YOU HAVE A LEGENDS CAR AND HAVE YOU COMPETED WITH THE LEGENDS? IF YOU HAVE A LEGENDS CAR WHY HAVE YOU NOT RACED IT? I DONT KNOW WHY YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH 600 OR BG WHOEVER THAT IS. WE HAVE BEEN RACING LEGENDS FOR A WHILE AND HAVE NOT HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH 600 RACING. ALSO THE DEAL WITH THUNDER HILL, THEY HAVE NOT PAID ANYBODY YET THIS YEAR AT THE RACE TRACK FOR LEGENDS. MAYBE THIS IS WHY THEY CAN NOT GET ENOUGH CARS THERE FOR A RACE. WHERE WOULD YOU GO, FORT WORTH AND GET PAID OR T.H. KNOWING YOU HAVENT GOT PAID AT ALL THIS YEAR. THE PROBLEM STARTS AT THUNDERHILL NOT THE DEALER AT FORT WORTH. ALSO JOSH IS A GOOD KID AND KNOWS ALOT ABOUT RACING. HE JUST SPEAKS THE TRUTH WHEN IT COMES TO COMPARISON. HE HAS BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT. AS FOR KIDS JUST STARTING OUT BANDOS ARE THE WAY TO GO. KIDS THAT ARE SERIOUS ABOUT RACING, THIS IS THE WAY TO GO. ALSO THE TIME YOU SPENT WITH YOUR KID IS PRICELESS TO ANY ADULT. IN MY RACING CAREER WITH MY SON, WE HAVE MEET SEVERAL NICE PEOPLE AND SOME THAT REALLY SUCK. ALSO WHEN WE RAN 1/4S THERE WHERE 40 MEMBERS IN S.A. AND 18 MEMBERS IN AUSTIN. AT THE LAST REGIONAL RACE IN AUSTIN I THINK THERE WHERE ONLY MAYBE 4 CLUB MEMBERS FROM AUSTIN COMPETING AT THE REGIONAL EVENT. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SPEND ALOT OF MONEY TO HAVE YOUR KID RACE AT A AUSTIN EVENT JUST TO FIND OUT HE IS THE ONLY KID IN THAT CLASS? LETS SEE 1/4S HAVE HOW MANY CLASSES? LETS SEE I BET THERE ARE MORE CLASSES THAN THERE ARE MEMBERS IN AUSTIN. SO GO AND FIGURE IT OUT, EACH MEMBER WOULD FINISH FIRST BECAUSE HE OR SHE WOULD BE THE ONLY CAR IN THE CLASS. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT MY KID WOULD NOT GET ANYTHING OUT OF IT. ALSO BOB ONE MORE THING, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME A KID MOVED FROM 1/4S TO ANY OUTHER FORMS OF RACING? IN S.A. I THINK IT WAS LOYD ALEXANDER 1998 NOW WITH TSRS LATE MODELS AND IN AUSTIN IN 1999 MAYBE A KID NAMED ZAC Z, CASEY SMITH 1997, CHARLIE SWAYNE 1996, KENNY STONE 1995, JOSH FREEMAN 1995. ALL THESE KIDS DRIVE SOME FORM OF RACE CARS TODAY. ALL THESE GUYS I SEE ON A REGULAR BASIS. I MAKE TIME TO VISIT WITH THEM. A REAL RACER WILL ALWAYS BE A TRUE RACER, A KID THAT IS. THATS ALL I HAVE FOR YOU BOB. PLEASE REPLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 hey guy's, how about a Allison Legacy car.......even cheaper to run! anyway just thought I would add a comment. By the way, Mr. Riley is a nice person-ease up. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 hey buddy stop it with the caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ups88john Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 what does a legacy car cost? tires, motor ect. last i heard they were in the 17000 range new. big john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted July 29, 2003 Report Share Posted July 29, 2003 I have read through this thread and just have to reply. I believe I can speak with some wisdom on this subject considering I have won or finished in the top four nationally in both legends and qtr midgets. We won eight regional titles in qtr midgets and have a higher win % than anybody in Texas to set foot in a Legends car. With that said, you not only have to look at the price, but also the level of competition. Qtr midgets can start you at a much younger age. This provides for the perfect opprotunity to have some FAMILY FUN and fun is what it should be about. As your driver grows and develops you must decide how far you are going to take there racing carreer. If you want to travel to big venues and race with "professional drivers" like the cup races at TMS (what a joke) you should go run legends. If you plan on eventually moving into super lates or somthing like that, I would go run go-karts (not cheap either) to run against higher competition (ask Brandon . As for bandaleros SP, if your racing to just have fun, then there ok, no good for driving experience though. As for you racin4life00, you have a huge chip on you shoulder, why don't you move on up to Super Late-Model so I can tap it off there for you. Bob Riley is a great guy and yes he does have a legends car, it is my old car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 A Legacy car new can cost about 17,000.00 . I bought mine for 5000, painted it, new tires-after the first 2 races,replaced the fire bottle and went racing. Very low cost to maintain and race. I usually keep it on the trailer between races. I even change the gears with it on the trailer. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRiley Posted July 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Thanks Bandit...you're just like your dad 'just the mention of his name brings respect so I know he's one of the best' Racin4life is really a father/son team. Jr blasted me about the squirrels in Austin, you can tell he's a kid by the compession, then Sr hacked me about who is BG? You can tell there are two different writters. Here's what happened. Sr was the squirrels president, all the squirrels got mad and asked him to step down. Boy it hit the fan, I left when Sr started cussing Connie and Tishia. Ever since then, anyone connected with the Austin QM is dirt. The chip is for me, even though I wasn't there to vote, he blames me. Anyone who races Legends in Texas knows that Brad Gillie (BG) is the head man at Lone Star Legends, the official dealership in Texas. No official has been at THR this year...no tech...no scorer...no body...that's why Tracie C. hasn't written a check for the payout...who does she give it to? If it weren't for Deb Kruger, you would not have raced two week ago. She set up the whole race. Lone Star Legends has blown off south Texas, if you want to race Legends, go to Houston or Ft.Worth. That's why I have a bad taste for Legends management. I go to MD Anderson tomarrow, more complications, for I don't know how long. If Jr or Sr want to hack at me some more, you'll have to wait, till I get back. I like argueing with them, it's like wrestling with a pig in the mud, after about 10 minutes they realize, I enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 Just to name a couple others that came from 1/4's in the Texas area or region 6 who are still racing today. Bradley Riethmeyer-- ROMCO Eric Covington--ROMCO Daryn Pittman--World of Outlaws/ Also first American to win Aussie Sprint World Championships Shane Stewart-- ASCS & World of Outlaws Darren Stewart-- ASCS Ian Brown--ASCS Eddy Wallace--ROMCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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