Major automaker planning a NASCAR pullout?

[Tim]

I got this from another forum I hang out on. Not sure if anyone has seen it or not, very interesting...

 

Tim

 

from www.autoextremist.com

 

note: for those who don't know, that's an insider's insider website on the Detroit auto industry, run by a former industry marketing exec and son of a quasi-famous GM PR exec. This guy and his crew pull no punches whatsoever in their quest for the "unvarnished truth" and hold great disdain for what they see as advertiser-influenced puff-pieces in all the industry magazines. Everybody who is anybody in Detroit car business reads the site whether they'll admit it in public or not.

 

From autoextremist.com

 

http://www.autoextremist.com/page3.shtml#fumes

 

Quote:

Thinking The Unthinkable.

 

Detroit. It has come to our attention that serious discussions are taking place for the first time in the conference rooms of one domestic manufacturer in particular on a subject heretofore unthinkable in Detroit. The subject? Pulling out of NASCAR. Yes, it has been mentioned before, and I have predicted it for months now - ever since the announcement was made that Toyota would be buying its way into the France family circus - but we have confirmation that not only are the discussions taking place, they're so far down the road that a timetable for a pullout has been created, taking into account the end dates of existing contracts with individual racing teams currently aligned with this particular manufacturer.

 

The fact that it has finally come to this is no real surprise. Several years ago, we pieced together evidence that each of the Detroit-based car companies were spending in the neighborhood of $140 million each, annually, on their NASCAR endeavors. That figure accounts for engineering and wind-tunnel work, direct payments to the teams, personal services contracts with the drivers, promotional programs, race sponsorships, advertising, etc., etc. In the Big Picture of things, when multinational companies are spending double that amount for the "privilege" of competing in Formula 1, that would seem like no big deal, but taking into account the factors that matter most to the Detroit car companies right now, that dollar figure is a very big deal.

 

And what are those factors? Beyond the obvious pressures being generated by Detroit's dire financial straits, one thing in particular is driving these "pulling out of NASCAR" discussions to critical levels - and that is NASCAR's full-on push and investment in its much-hyped "Car of Tomorrow." The COT is NASCAR's new "spec" car, and it takes NASCAR's template philosophy to its logical conclusions. The COT could easily be called a "NASCAR Special" or whatever the marketing name that the hype-masters in Daytona Beach will want to call it, because any connection to what the manufacturers are producing has been well and truly broken. I contend, of course, that the connection was broken long ago, but the Detroit manufacturers have been clinging to a shred of a connection and amusing themselves with the annual massaging of their various models' grille openings, nose shapes and headlight decals.

 

Until now, anyway.

 

Now, the realization has finally sunk in for one manufacturer, apparently, and taking everything into account and putting everything on the table, there's no longer the blind allegiance to NASCAR at this company, which is a seismic shift if you know anything about this town's slavish devotion to all things NASCAR on and off for the last 50 years.

 

NASCAR has been living large off the Detroit car companies' cash trough for so long now that they don't even care anymore, as all sense of reality left the NASCAR offices in Daytona Beach and New York long ago. The NASCAR attitude goes something like this: If a Detroit manufacturer drops out, it's "whatever" - because Toyota is stepping up to the plate. And if another manufacturer drops out, no worries, because eventually we'll just market our own NASCAR "Specials" and then we won't have to pay any manufacturer rights fees ever again.

 

But for one particular Detroit manufacturer it's no longer "whatever" - and messing with the sanctity of the NASCAR budget is no longer unthinkable - it's very real, very calculated and very imminent.

 

This Detroit manufacturer has decided that if it competes in motorsports in the future, it will only compete in three basic areas: 1. In production-based racing series that by rule and specification retain more than a passing resemblance to the cars they sell and the competitors they compete against in showrooms. 2. "Technical" efforts, in other words, engine programs for open-wheel and prototype racing series, but stopping short of Formula 1. And 3. Developing an effort to compete for the overall victory at Le Mans. Any other efforts, grass-roots racing, drag racing, etc., would be covered as the need and budget allow.

 

This particular manufacturer has finally come to the stark realization that their NASCAR involvement has done more for NASCAR than anything else. NASCAR exists for its benefit and profitability first and foremost - everything else is secondary to that fundamental premise. The relentless hype of NASCAR and its sponsors by NASCAR itself and its enablers at the TV networks has resulted in dramatically diminished returns for the participating manufacturers - and pretending that NASCAR's popularity has done wonders for these car companies in the showrooms amounts to the Big Lie. The fact of the matter is that the increase in the popularity of NASCAR over the last ten years has seen a corresponding decrease in the participating domestic manufacturers sales fortunes. And there's not one NASCAR-sponsored survey that can possibly suggest otherwise, no matter how hard they try to "cook" the numbers.

 

Immersed in a battle for the hearts and minds of American consumers, this manufacturer has finally taken the blinders off and decided that the blind devotion to all things NASCAR has run its course and now must come to a stop.

 

In other words, the $140 million that was previously earmarked for NASCAR, will be put to very good use.

 

Stay tuned, because we'll have more on this story in the coming weeks.

[tqj3]

Tim-

The same story is on Jayski today. I can't find fault with any of it, particularly with NASCAR's totally self-serving ways, but I'm not sure I'd put the blame for "Detroit's" falling sales anywhere but in the boardrooms of GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler.

NASCAR may not be helping (and we don't know how bad the sales might be WITHOUT NASCAR), but the auto execs are responsible for their own collective demise.

 

PS-Also glad to hear from you. You still have my email address.?

[SVCMNGR1]

Sooooooo, which manufacturer is it?

[Tim]

Tim-

The same story is on Jayski today. I can't find fault with any of it, particularly with NASCAR's totally self-serving ways, but I'm not sure I'd put the blame for "Detroit's" falling sales anywhere but in the boardrooms of GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler.

NASCAR may not be helping (and we don't know how bad the sales might be WITHOUT NASCAR), but the auto execs are responsible for their own collective demise.

 

PS-Also glad to hear from you. You still have my email address.?

I am curious to see which Manufacturer pulls out, if any. I know one thing, with all of the overseas car Manufacturers selling more cars, I can see how easy it would be to want to back out.

 

I am still alive, just don't have a lot of time to spend on the boards. I work a lot over here and stay pretty busy, but we love Germany. Nice to hear from you guys!!! Yep, I am at the email address: tim@leemotorsports.com

 

Tim

[thumper]

The American car companies are as far out of touch with Americas needs as the Federal Government is with its energy policy.(or lack of)In France,they have a car that gets 70 mpg, weighs 1800 #s,carries 2 people and has a top speed of 100 mph.Its powered by a 450cc turbocharged 2 cyl engine.The 4 cyl Camry gets over 35 mpg.The turbo VW jetta gets mileage similar to the hybreds.Detroit sells gas drinking fall apart junk in the face of 3.00$ a gallon plus by this summer.Its no wonder they want out before Toyota embarress them.They need real ecenomy cars for communters that get over 50 mpg. Like a methanol burning,fuel injected 900cc 3 cyl engine with 15 to 1 compression and a turbo in a 1800 lb 2 dr with a 6 speed to get 60 mpg and no emissions powered by American farmers.It can be done and Toyota and Honda will do it if Detroit does not.And the cars Detroit sells now should be racing on American tracks NOW.

[tqj3]

Geeze, Thumper, who put a gun in your back and made you buy an SUV or pickup?

 

France builds the kinds of cars they do because gasoline in France (and a large part of the rest of the world) sells for six bucks plus per gallon. In other words, they sell what the customer wants. Not needs, wants.

 

The U.S. automakers do the same thing: build and sell what we want. There are a lot of cars for sale in the U. S. that get better than 30 miles per gallon, and some get over 40. Nobody is buying them, though a few liberals are making themselves feel all warm and runny by overpaying for the latest hybrid so people will see how socially conscious they are.

 

The key thing to remember is that you will go broke selling people what they need, and get rich selling them what they want. We're just not very bright about wanting the right things, but at about four bucks per gallon, we'll probably get a lot sharper.

 

The U.S. automakers may have been caught off-guard by the rise in fuel prices, primarily because the U. S. car industry is conditioned to think short-term: ten days to 30 days ahead. But they were, and are, building what people want.

 

Or did cars that get over 30 miles per gallon suddenly capture 90 percent of the market?

[CommonSenseRacing]

The key thing to remember is that you will go broke selling people what they need, and get rich selling them what they want. We're just not very bright about wanting the right things, but at about four bucks per gallon, we'll probably get a lot sharper.

 

The U.S. automakers may have been caught off-guard by the rise in fuel prices, primarily because the U. S. car industry is conditioned to think short-term: ten days to 30 days ahead. But they were, and are, building what people want.

That’s a great point, same theory applies with racing, short term unhappiness for some racers from changing to COMMON RULES. Long term, better racing, car counts, purses and more fans in the stands.

 

JMO

[supertx]

CSR

 

You and your common rules that's what is one of the big problems with the manufactures NASCAR is going to a common car the only thing that looks like any of the manufactures cars is the nose.It has been no secert that Ford is really pissed about the common car.

[txtom]

Didn't all this come up about a year or two ago?

 

Same basic message.

[CommonSenseRacing]

CSR

 

You and your common rules that's what is one of the big problems with the manufactures NASCAR is going to a common car the only thing that looks like any of the manufactures cars is the nose.It has been no secert that Ford is really pissed about the common car.

SUPERTX,

 

I’ll let you in on a little secret, all the cars in NASCAR are already the same except for the noses.

[tqj3]

Supertx, are all the cars at each track in a particular class the same? (Excluding the Camaros, of course. LOL) If not, why would cars at different tracks running under the same rules all be the same?

[neon14]

I drive a honda civic, I race a dodge neon. Thumper hates dodge neons. I even tow the neon to the track with the honda. I need a 4 cylinder truck for obvious reasons. Still looking for a small truck running or not will trade honda for truck. Neon Will

[neon14]

Do people buy these cars that nascar races anymore? A nascar already does not look like any thing that we drive on the street . So nascar is that big they dont need auto makers anymore? Cart, IRL, Nascar? So does nascar make motors? Or will nascar be like the open wheel cars. And have a chasis with a ford or chevy motor? Will the future entry list for a nascar race look like the entry list for the indy 500? A blue nascar with a chevy motor, or a green nascar with a dodge motor, anyway Neon Will

[arts22]

I’ll let you in on a little secret, all the cars in NASCAR are already the same except for the noses.

CSR, thats what Supertx is telling you.... The nose, tail piece and the hood look like the manufacture(some what). BUT the COT will all look identical except for the stickers you put on as the headlights and tail lights.

[ProTree]

read this morning Ford lost $1.2 billion as restructing begins-makes you wonder

[CommonSenseRacing]

I’ll let you in on a little secret, all the cars in NASCAR are already the same except for the noses.

CSR, thats what Supertx is telling you.... The nose, tail piece and the hood look like the manufacture(some what). BUT the COT will all look identical except for the stickers you put on as the headlights and tail lights.

And that’s NASCAR’s fault, it had nothing to do with the teams and manufactures whining that’s not fair this car has more down force than we do, we need this or that to be competitive. Because of that they went to a common template, except for the noses and stickers so you could tell which manufacturer is which. Now they are going one step further to a common car.

 

People complain about cookie cutter cars and divisions, most division that race store bought cars are cookie cutter divisions. Do you really think that a port city car is that different than a lefthander, howe or dillion car. Suspension geometry is math, and math is math, it’s not some magical formula that can’t be duplicated. Once you understand the logic, you can set up a pure stock or a cup car.

 

My point is whether you race at the local short track or the cup series, the fault does not fall on one particular group, everyone plays the blame game and it’s never my fault it’s either the other guy’s, the owner’s or the promoters fault.

 

JMO

[txtom]

Here is some info pulled from the Jayski site:

 

One of the Manufacturers pulling out of NASCAR? UPDATE 2 comments from all: an autoextremeist.com column is reporting that: It has come to our attention that serious discussions are taking place for the first time in the conference rooms of one domestic manufacturer in particular on a subject heretofore unthinkable in Detroit. The subject? Pulling out of NASCAR. Yes, it has been mentioned before, and I have predicted it for months now - ever since the announcement was made that Toyota would be buying its way into the France family circus - but we have confirmation that not only are the discussions taking place, they're so far down the road that a timetable for a pullout has been created, taking into account the end dates of existing contracts with individual racing teams currently aligned with this particular manufacturer. This Detroit manufacturer has decided that if it competes in motorsports in the future, it will only compete in three basic areas: 1. In production-based racing series that by rule and specification retain more than a passing resemblance to the cars they sell and the competitors they compete against in showrooms. 2. "Technical" efforts, in other words, engine programs for open-wheel and prototype racing series, but stopping short of Formula 1. And 3. Developing an effort to compete for the overall victory at Le Mans. Any other efforts, grass-roots racing, drag racing, etc., would be covered as the need and budget allow.(in part....see full article at autoextremeist.com, note: thr article doesn't say which manufacturer COULD be leaving [Chevy, Dodge, Ford] and this column will only be up a few days), Peter M. DeLorenzo, who owns and writes for the site has been on Speed Channel's Wind Tunnel a few times and tends to be controversal and a bit anti-NASCAR, however doesn't tend to just post stuff for the sake of posting it and has a lot of sources.(4-20-2006)

UPDATE: A report on the website www.autoextremist.com suggested this week that one of Detroit’s big three automakers could pull out of the NASCAR Nextel Cup Series some time after NASCAR’s “Car of Tomorrow” debuts next year. Speculation has centered on Chevrolet, given the Draconian financial state of its parent company, General Motors, which lost $10.6 billion in 2005 and $323 million in the first quarter of ’06. Alba Colon, Chevrolet’s Nextel Cup program manager, said Thursday that if there have been discussions about GM leaving Nextel Cup, she hasn’t been part of them. “I will be honest with you, I just learned about that (the autoextremist.com report) last night,” Colon said Thursday morning at Phoenix International Raceway. “I have never been in a meeting where anything like that has ever been discussed, at least not with me or anyone in my office. We have a commitment with all our teams, a long-term commitment. I can’t comment on the contract we have with our teams, but it’s longer than a year, I can tell you that. It’s more than the end of this year, and it’s not GM’s philosophy to break contracts like that.”(Speed Channel)(4-21-2006)

UPDATE 2 - Comments from all 3: Reports that one of Detroit's Big Three auto manufacturersmay be considering dropping out of NASCAR racing swirled through the Cup garage, possibly stemming from the report that Ford's SVT (Special Vehicle Team) program may be shut down in October. But Ford's Kevin Kennedy, the company's public-affairs manager for racing, said that there are no plans to get out of NASCAR: "We've seen that story, and I can assure you Ford does not plan on getting out of NASCAR. Our racing program has support at the highest levels of the company, and our research and data has shown conclusively that there's a viable business case for us being involved in the sport in terms of our market share and purchase consideration among race fans. Racing is part of the Ford DNA and has been since Henry Ford raced back in 1901."

General Motors' Pat Suhy, the company's NASCAR director, said that GM isn't leaving, either: "We're here in NASCAR and we're here to stay. It makes good business sense for us to be here. We get a great return on our investment. We have a lot of activation around this around the country with our dealers and our regional dealer groups. And we have great sponsorship partners with our teams. So if there is any truth to that, I don't know about it, and it certainly isn't us."

Ray Evernham, owner of the season's winningest operation, which is sponsored by Dodge dealers, said: "I can't speak for Dodge, but I can tell you I know they're happy. If you look at their stock, it's up. And they're the only American manufacturer with an increase in market share. I've got a really long-term contract with them, and if I were a betting man, I'd bet it's not Daimler."(Winston Salem Journal)(4-22-2006)

 

 

Dodge Comments on rumor: COMMENT ON WEB SITE REPORT THAT ONE OF THE BIG THREE MANUFACTURERS IS GOING TO LEAVE NASCAR

John Fernandez, Director of Dodge Motorsports Operations: "I've heard the rumor, but obviously we're not involved in it. I haven't heard anything from General Motors or Ford that indicates they're in any jeopardy. Obviously their total companies right now are having a tough time in the marketplace, but that's happened before and it'll happen again I'm sure. As far as I know, GM and Ford are still committed to NASCAR and committed to racing in the Cup Series. As far as I know right now it's only a rumor."(Clear!Blue/Dodge PR)(4-22-2006)

 

This same leaving NASCAR topic came up a couple years ago. They didn't leave then; they won't now.

 

There are several amusing things that will come about as a result of NASCAR decisions regarding the COT and also a few other rules changes.

 

Here is one for now, I'll tease ya with the other ones:

Do any of you watch the NASCAR clips when they showing them loading the cars in the top of the haulers?

Ever notice how little room there is?

The COT car does not fit in these existing haulers! It is too tall!

Wonder how much it will cost to retrofit the haulers?

[TheLegend96]

Tom,

 

The retrofit costs will be what ever a new one costs. Hopefully there will be a few SLM teams with new haulers.....

[supertx]

CSR

 

Do you really think that Port City and all the chassis manufactures are the same?Do you think that the guys that are running fast don't change the front and rear suspensions?Do you think that every team builds there cars the same?LOL there a lot of people in here that would like to here your answers.

[CommonSenseRacing]

CSR

 

   Do you really think that Port City and all the chassis manufactures are the same?Do you think that the guys that are running fast don't change the front and rear suspensions?Do you think that every team builds there cars the same?LOL there a lot of people in here that would like to here your answers.

SUPERTX,

 

Do you really think that Port City and all the chassis manufactures are the same?

 

Yes, if you compare apples to apples which means perimeter chassis to perimeter chassis or offset chassis to offset chassis they are very close. Now if your comparing a conventional coil spring chassis to coilover chassis or a stock clip chassis to a tube snout chassis they are different, are the suspension parts interchangeable, NO, but they are still similar, just like the SB Ford and Chrysler are based off the SB Chevrolet.

 

Do you think that the guys that are running fast don't change the front and rear suspensions? Do you think that every team builds there cars the same?

 

Thank you for making my point for me, you can give 20 racers the same exact car and the ones that are fast now will still be fast. The chassis is only as good as the team turning the wrenches and the racer in the seat. All I hear from you is complaint after complaint about cookie cutter cars, cookie cutter late models still depend on setting the camber/caster, springs, shock package (even common shocks will have different amounts of rebound depending on the set up), sway bar (BBSS or conventional set up), gear, brake bias and the amount of rear steer that the teams put in the car (I‘m not even getting into cambered rear ends). So, my point is although they are cookie cutter cars it’s the guys turning the wrench and the driver that put them in victory lane NOT CUBIC DOLLARS!!!!

 

there a lot of people in here that would like to here your answers

 

WOW!! I’m flattered, you, arts22 and no clutch is that an official fan club.LOL

 

CSR

[arts22]

CSR,

 

Nascar teams funded by millions cant build 5 chassis' that are perfectly identical and your telling us port city and lefthander are identical......Oh you said, "Very close"... So if your always a 10th of a second behind, thats good enough for you.... Very close doesnt cut it.

 

You think apples are all the same? A few brand apples and how they differ..

Golden Delicious Apples: malic acid .56%- brix level 12.25%

Red Delicious Apples: malic acid .21%- brix level 14.94%

Granny Smith Apples: malic acid .30%- brix level 14.39%

 

CSR, brix level is the sugar percentage but you problably know this. Their close but not identical..... Very close in nascar is qualifing 1st or 43rd.

 

While your on your podieum preaching give us the info we need not the same ole'sermon.

[Modracer]

Tom,

 

A few weeks ago one of the teams was testing the new COT and crushed it while they were loading it.

[CommonSenseRacing]

Nascar teams funded by millions cant build 5 chassis' that are perfectly identical and your telling us port city and lefthander are identical......Oh you said, "Very close"... So if your always a 10th of a second behind, thats good enough for you.... Very close doesnt cut it.

ARTS22

 

Why do you bring NASCAR into this, all the chassis's are built on a jig, I forgot there are no other parts on a race car that could be different. The very close came from a parts house I used to deal with that is a Howe, Portcity and Lefthander dealer. I called him and asked which car he would recommend, He said there all about the same, it comes down to the guys turning the wrenches and the driver in the seat.

 

You think apples are all the same? A few brand apples and how they differ..

Golden Delicious Apples: malic acid .56%- brix level 12.25%

Red Delicious Apples: malic acid .21%- brix level 14.94%

Granny Smith Apples: malic acid .30%- brix level 14.39%

 

CSR, brix level is the sugar percentage but you problably know this. Their close but not identical..... Very close in nascar is qualifing 1st or 43rd.

 

No, I didn’t know that, but I like the way you wrote it. Maybe we should call you Johnny Appleseed instead of Arts22! LOL Qualifying and racing are totally different, just look at Ryan Newman.

 

While your on your podieum preaching give us the info we need not the same ole'sermon.

 

Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

[arts22]

CSR, the thread is about nascar...... I wasnt talking about other parts JUST the VERY CLOSE chassis'. A parts house that sells all 3 chassis' told you there "very close". I see you did alot of research on the subject....LOL....

 

I first replied to you because you were broad with your post and I thought you had knowledge of the matter or had done some research. I was hoping all the rambling you do would have some worth. Most cars have 4 tires, thats how specific you are... I was hoping to learn something from you like most of us do from txtom/Thelegend96 and the others that have researched the subject and have alot of knowledge and time in racing... I personally look for every 10th I can get, if its a specific part(within reason) I want the details, knowledge and understanding behind it and "specifically" how it will help me......

 

Is a 10th or 2 off the pace in a race "very close" for U?

[Pacecar]

A half of one tenth, over a 40 lap race, equals 2 seconds.... a nice winning margin!

 

====

P.S. I'm shootin' for second place.