JamesHigdon

NASCAR going Hybrid in 2024

So, hear me out here, I think this is great.

I don’t think there’s a single person here who would argue that NASCAR was at its best when they where racing actual stock cars with motors we could recognize from our street cars. I think this is a way NASCAR could let the manufacturers actually have some influence on the outcome of the race again and draw much more robust influence from them.

An “additive” hybrid system like already used in some forms of racing that didn’t replace the traditional gas engines but instead added an extra 50-100hp on demand would be as “stock” as anything NASCAR vehicles have seen in years. Batteries, motors and systems developed by the manufacturer would mean a Chevy was a Chevy, a Ford was a Ford, etc.

I personally think NASCAR should be running nearly stock truck V8s (GM’s 5.3L, Ford 5.0L and Toyota’s 5.7L) and parallel hybrid would be amazing with that addition. Maybe we could even go back to V6’s for the Xfinity cars…back to the “win on Sunday sell on Monday mentality”.

I know a lot of people got angry at the idea of NASCAR’s electrification but IF implemented well I see zero dow side here? 

I know it’s a way-long shot but I’m looking for more pictures (or event-program info) of this car that ran SAS in the mid eighties. The car was run by my father (Tracy Higdon) and uncle (Corry Higdon) as what I believe was called a Super Street Stock in approximately ‘86-87 (I was roughly 2 in that picture which would have made it ‘87). 

My father (in the picture holding me) passed just over a month ago and I’m trying to gather up as many pictures of their race cars as exist. Thanks for anyone that can dig anything up! 

Been busy with family commitments but I’m going to take the info here, expand on it and make a comprehensive list. I want to try and include everything; Mud Drags, Kart Ovals (L87, Richmond, etc), airport dragstrip, mile-1/2mile events, etc. Thank you. 

8 hours ago, Turn5 said:

James, a few years back I wrote an iPhone app that lists Texas tracks. They are broken down in to three categories: drag strips, ovals, and road courses, so it doesn't include karts as you are looking for. I try to update the data at least once a year, but as Nick and rebel mention above it is ever changing and hard to keep up to date and accurate. It is a free app if you want to check it out, just search for "Texas Race Tracks" on the App Store.

Great; I’ll take a look, thanks! 

26 minutes ago, NickHolt said:

A comprehensive list is elusive because so many Texas Dirt tracks come and go, get renamed or simply fall off everyone's radar.

Jay Hallas probably could come up with a pretty complete list.  He is rebelracewriter on here.

Nick

I think I'm going to start working on a list; could be a fun project and I think it'll help show people what's really still here. You up to help reb?

As I’ve wandered deeper down the rabbit-hole that preparing my sons circle-track kart is I’ve realized there seems to be dirt track karts popping up all over. L87, Shiner, Riverside, I37, I’ve heard on about one near Rockport, etc.

Is there a comprehensive list of tracks in Texas anywhere? I mean everything from Quarter Midget tracks to Mud-Drag tracks to NASCAR Cup tracks. It’s easy to name every asphalt circle track running in TX but can anyone name all the dirt tracks, theres got to be more than a dozen? 

I was pretty down on the SRX deal to start off with; not enough cars and they looked goofy as humanly possible but damn the racing was great! Anyone else really enjoy the event at Stafford? I’m looking forward to the Slinger race more than anything that’s come up in years. 

1 hour ago, rebelracewriter said:

Rusty....About the only time big media gets interested in any form of "grass roots" racing is when something bad happens.

Oh come on; a weekly racer won a race at a weekly track on CBS just last Saturday…sort of! 

5 hours ago, hray said:

Actually, starting yesterday it's all over social media including video. Racing is just not high on the priority list for cable. Go on FB, YouTube etc. and you can find all the details.

Yessir; it popped up about a half dozen places yesterday afternoon but I hadn’t seen it at alL

before that. 

8 hours ago, HiTech said:

i will most likely get in trouble here .. nothing new  .. I CANT FATHOM  that safety fence being very safe not much support when thousands of pounds of force hits it . sad deal someone having fun died . we all know anything can happen at anytime at any track  we take that chance but i think that was a bit more chances with that safety system ..

I agree; the fence just wasn’t enough. 

CNN Article, Mud Drags Death.

Hadn’t seen or heard anything about this until today, bad deal.

For such horrible weather and planning the racing has been great and the crowd has blown me away.  All the general admission parking is straight mud pits; it’s going to be like San Antonio Speedway at 2am after a rainout here at about 7pm...this is about the 5th time that’s happened out here you figure they’d learn? Most of the sitting areas are pretty full though; it’s good to see.

6 hours ago, Realfast said:

Getting mine ready also 

Probably not a great dirt-circle track kart but it would be...entertaining to see the attempt. 

6 hours ago, 24nomo said:

Man, this COTA is a world class facility.  These Premium RV spots are 8 grand for 4 days and they are all sold out.  People arriving spending money like never before out here.  I feel like I have died and gove to heaven.  They is a ton of Lambos here that will be racing.  What a beautiful site

Wow; glad to hear the event is doing well. The track ended up allowing wagons (but not strollers...who knows) so we will be up there with our kids at least Saturday. Should be a lot of fun...for a state where “racing is dead” it’s great to see multiple NASCAR races, multiple IRL races and F1.

If you scroll down farther in the same thread they say they're planning on a dirt oval after this project is complete. Looking forward to getting my son's kart out on the new karting track soon!

1 hour ago, HiTech said:

SO YOU ARE PART OF THE FENCE BRIGADE .  funny how i didnt notice all of you till this season .i am always in the pits with the car  and didnt notice that area .. looks like fun over there ..can you really see the racing out there .i might take a ride on my orange mini bike  out there one night to  get a view .

Yup; the view is better the closer you are to turn 1 but we typically get there about race time, end up closer to 2 and you can still see everything pretty well. It’s better if you’re in the back of a truck or in our case sitting on top of my beater suburban.

I’ve got a 19 month old and 6 year old, my sisters family (who usually comes with us) has 3 ranging from 1 to 8; sitting with our cars is SO much easier. We can let the kids run around and raise hell without bothering people which makes it a lot easier to enjoy the races.

COTA who is bound to have access to some pretty bright people should be able to figure out not many families are going to put up with their nonsense especially at a time when a lot of people with kids aren’t going to want to be crammed into shuttle buses. It’s almost like they just don’t give a damn if people go or not? 

3 hours ago, HiTech said:

WOW so much for family outing at the races ... hope those are not the rules .i bet i37 would be happy to have you . strollers are not an issue at any local race track  ive heard of  ...i suppose the clear bag  lets them see if you are bringing in a bomb ..

At I37 we can bring our own beer and back right up to the turn 1 fence to watch. It’s better than watching races at home but CoTA seems to be going out of their way to make things difficult...we spend a lot of money out there (went to their Christmas show WITH NO BATHROOMS 3 times!) but they’re making it harder and harder to justify. 

So; we bought tickets for Saturday which they billed as "family day" but their rules are completely asinine. We've probably been to a dozen races at CoTA, never had an issue. Now there's no bags (except for a hand-sized clear bag with only clear things in it) and no strollers. We where taking a group of 9 with 5 kids of which the oldest is 8 and the youngest are both 1. If I get clarification those are really the rules they're going with we are canceling our tickets and going to I37 instead. 

Hadn’t seen it mentioned it so I’ll do it; the Bristol Dirt Nationals are running live all week on the racexr.com streaming service. I downloaded their app (onto my TV, can watch it on pretty much anything) and am watching the 10th 13 car IMCA Stock Car heat race of the night live. It’s $39.00 for a month (re-occurring if you don’t cancel) and their tech support is excellent. The racing is pretty amazing; I expected it to be a mess but these racers and track staff have it dialed in. They’re running 3&4 wide and the late models are getting ready to go; well worth the price. 

Support your local dirt track; travel to the only asphalt track currently running.

On 3/4/2021 at 10:14 PM, turbotoddie said:

Sorry guys but the biggest reason why it won't work is because all of these cars are sheetmetal.  None of them have frames on any strength anymore.  Yes, you can roadrace them because they don't condone contact and contact is inherent to circle track.

IMHO, you want to fix Sat night racing, body the cars to appear modern.  I can't think of anyone young or old, that doesn't prefer the sound of a V8 over anything else.  Second, each class needs its own look.  Hate to say it but when Super Stocks look like late models, it's confusing to the uneducated. 

Cost containment is the issue, tires are too high, shocks are insane and crate motors are always under question, pit passes are tough while payouts haven't kept up with rising costs of racing.  

I remember the first time seeing a late model and thought it was hideous.  After the race, I thought it was the sexiest thing on wheels ever made!!!

 

Just .02, cause that's all I have

"Sorry guys but the biggest reason why it won't work is because all of these cars are sheetmetal.  None of them have frames on any strength anymore.  Yes, you can roadrace them because they don't condone contact and contact is inherent to circle track."

Most modern cars aren't much different than a Camaro; a unibody with a front stub. I know a few people that have circle track raced full unibody cars without issue. It's certainly a different deal but not a deal breaker.

"IMHO, you want to fix Sat night racing, body the cars to appear modern.  I can't think of anyone young or old, that doesn't prefer the sound of a V8 over anything else.  Second, each class needs its own look.  Hate to say it but when Super Stocks look like late models, it's confusing to the uneducated."

The cars I'm talking about are all V8 powered and this would be a great way to maintain a true differentiation between classes.

"Cost containment is the issue, tires are too high, shocks are insane and crate motors are always under question, pit passes are tough while payouts haven't kept up with rising costs of racing.  "

I agree completely and that's the point of this to a large degree. People are buying professionally built Hobby Stocks, thats insane. Stock cars in local classes need to be coming from wrecking yards not chassis shops. 

On 3/4/2021 at 10:21 AM, Harlin Covert said:

I agree the cars need to be up graded. a class for V8 Mustangs and Camaros from the 80's to present would be good.

the fans could relate better and here the V8s.

They road race the the unibodies so why not circle track.

Just an idea from an old guy.

Second gen Camaro's are unibody with a subframe, most modern cars are exactly the same. I knew a guy that raced a Lincoln Mark VIII (Unibody with no subframe) with no issues, we can get around that I think.

On 3/4/2021 at 8:17 PM, King237 said:

I recall attending races in 1970 at the local track and seeing 1955-1957 Fords and Chevys race in Sportsman and Late Models but vividly remember in 1972 there were just a few 55-57's around and everyone was running 1965-1967  Chevelle's and maybe a couple of 65-66 Fords. . By 1975 they were running 1969 Chevelle's in Late Models  and 65-67 Nova's in sportsman....By 1979 all the 55-57's were gone and now they are running 1969-1972 Chevelle's with a smathering of 1970-72 Ford Torino's . There were no Five Star Bodies back then....you hit the junkyard or had a sheetmetal worker fabricate them.

IMO  as well, I agree with the statement above. Show me a good close race, passing on the outside, and great car counts....that's my priorities as a fan now.

This is what I'm talking about...in the 90's guys where running G-bodies but for the most part stock car racing never advanced past that. As soon as carbs went away most guys just threw their hands up and said "thats it I'll keep my 80 MonteCarlo" but guys my age have zero issues tuning and working on these modern cars so why not try them?

When CTS was running strong a buddy of mine decided he wanted something different and built a Lincoln Mark VIII. The car ran as a Grand Stock and with a 264 CID DOHC V8 kept up with the other cars and won a feature or two. There is no reason the modern cars couldn't have advanced alongside the older cars they just didn't

On 3/4/2021 at 8:06 AM, rebelracewriter said:

James....in my personal opinion.....the majority of race fans want to see "racecars" not cars that race.....They want to see, hear, feel the sound of big motors, the speed and the talent it takes to drive them....Yes, the 4-bangers are entertaining, but NOT as a featured class on a weekly basis.....For the most part the younger generation is more into tik-tok, fakebook and stuff like that rather than racing, with the exception of drifting, that, to me, isn't really that entertaining.....Hell most of us old guys were doing that on city streets for fun years ago.

I'm talking more about stock car specifically; RWD Sedans ranging from CUP to local Hobby Stock level cars and what they represent in relation to modern street cars. I grant that younger people are more into other things but THAT is what I'm speaking to. If local short tracks where running cars kids had grown up with maybe kids would be more interested in Stock Car racing than instagram? 

On 3/4/2021 at 12:52 AM, rails said:

In my point of view, you are missing the trade off. The things that you would like to do to bring in a younger fan base, i.e newer style cars with current technology. Would be great for that younger generation. But for guys my age, 55, I could watch it due to the fact that I am a race fan first, but it certainly is not my preference. So guys your age, which is younger, you grew up with that style of car and technology, you can work on them, and I am sure it comes natural to you because you grew up with electronic devises. Guys like me wouldn't be able to find the button to turn the computer on. That matters to people.

The front wheel drive eco stock class that you see at HMP and at these dirt tracks now are fun to watch, but I can assure you that is not what drew me to that event. I hope to be at the World of Outlaws race at Cotton Bowl in a couple of weeks. Tell me how that class has not only survived, but thrived year after year after year? There has been some evolution, but it is largely the same as it was many years ago. 

There is a balance out there that works. Some tracks find it, many others don't.  

Halo classes tend to have less to do with street cars than maximum performance; Outlaws, Top Fuel, F1, etc. I'm talking more specifically about stock cars and what they represent. I guess the question is would stock car racing specifically be better of if divisions from NASCAR down to bombers had kept advancing with RWD Sedans vs what we have now? 

As far as tuning the cars and keeping them running my shop works on everything from '29 Chevrolets to 2021 Porsches, I'm as comfortable with a Quadrajet drilling idle bypass holes as I am dialing in idle air flow with a laptop and HPTuners so I can speak to that more than most. I don't think there's as much difference there as one would think. Most guys work with specialists to setup their cars; suspension guys, carb guys, etc; a modern car would be no different and I don't think it would be inherently more complicated.