ratdaddy Posted July 29, 2005 Report Share Posted July 29, 2005 I guess you have to be able to catch the fish first before you get to keep them. I have to admit I have gotten good at feeding them It's pretty sad when your 5 year old can catch more and bigger fish than you. Well come to think of it, I wouldn't have it any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racinghia50 Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 Well,I guess its my turn to put in my two cents worth also..........this is Randy Larsen,I have been racing with the Pro Sedans for almost 12 years off and on,I have seen this class have its hardships and huge success,I have watched it become a class that is respected, due to the car count , types of cars that race,and the professionalism shown by Neil Upchurch and his crew running the series.I only wished that a series that has been around for 30 years,a series that has provided one of the best payouts for any four cylinder class around,a series that allows semi-low budget racers a chance to race,a series that has truly supported its racers and vice versa, was shown the respect it deserves..........This series needs its racers and car count to continue its success,I have been unable to race lately as I am building a new vw bug to race in this series and the current events really upset me, I hope all parties involved really look at what could transpire from cancelling races,to splitting up cars.Did anyone stop to think that Neil just might say"I dont want the headache and stress of trying to make this series as even as I can,so " I QUIT ". Does anyone understand that if the Pro Sedans goes away,where are you going to race........I only hope Thunder hill would start a four cylinder class,Do you think San Antonio wants a four cylinder class?I know Corpus has the Thunder class but has anyone checked their payout????The manager of Corpus posted he will pay no purse to the Pro Fours for their race,however the track will be keeping all the pit pass money.Lalo Leal said he would be paying the purse for the race,How long will this last???? I guess we could all use our cars as boat anchors............... I had a head on collision on Thursday July 28 in my mazda tribute,the other driver crossed into my lane and totalled both of our vehicles,I am sore,my ribs hurt,my neck is pretty bad,but due to the situation,I drove 200 miles to borrow Candy Hogans VW Bug and I even borrowed a friends truck to make this race on the 30th at Thunderhill,I want to show Neil and the Pro Sedans the respect they deserve,and I think it would be a good idea for all those wanting to race four cylinders to do the same...............I dont think the other result would be enjoyed by anyone,go ahead and bash me if you want ........but I will be at the track tonight in a yellow bug with "53" on it having a blast and enjoying what I love best.........."RACING"...........Thank You Neil and the Pro Sedans,best wishes for several more years to come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Randy Larsen #53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 Randy, I can honestly say that I would not fault Neil in the slightest if he were to decide to call it quits. If anyone has paid their dues, it's Neil Upchurch. I have had the honor of working with Mr. Upchurch for many years and we go back all the way to Mexico when he put on amazing road course races back before most of today's racers were even born. I believe those who have decided to start their own racing organziation in protest over what they perceive to be some sort of injustice, as well as those who are supporting this TPS boycott have made a very serious error in judgement. I applaud Neil for not buckling under the constant stream of pressure from certain teams and individuals. It's just another reason he is without a doubt one of the most respected people in the Texas racing world. Just to let you know in advance, I will not be responding to anyone who decides to take issue with my position in this matter out of respect for Mr. Upchurch. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 both of you make a good point...........tps has been around for 30 years, thats a long time...........it is older than i am, and longer than a lot of businesses have been around............they are obviously doing something right.............you dont stay in business that long by doing half ass work or by mistreating your employees.........that is the kind of stablity all of texas racing needs.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdaddy Posted July 30, 2005 Report Share Posted July 30, 2005 AMEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted September 17, 2005 Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 Does Randy Lee still own that real Pro 4. I guess that will be legal. You guys better hope he doesn't own it. Yep, (Dad) Ronnie Lee owns it and is rebuilding the motor as we speak. I wish I would of seen this post earlier, but we moved to Germany a few months ago and I haven't had a lot of internet time. I was talking to Dad tonight and he filled me in. A few months back Randy and Dad took the car to C.C. to practice before one of the California Pro-4 races. Off of the trailer, the were turning low 14's and over sprung. Dad said he knows he can get it in the 13's with the right setup. I hope that BWM knows how to handle the "bump-and-run", not to mention dognuts on that nice paint. To compare Dad's car to any other Texas 4 cylinder wouldn't be right. No offense to anyone, but when Dad built that car, he put every built of quality and option you could think of. If anyone is interested in seeing it or talking with Dad about it, shoot me an email tim@leemotorsports.com and I will give you his phone number. I am sure he would love to hear from you. I would love to see a RWD, Pro-4 series started it Texas. I don't know that it ever will, but it would be nice. California has had HUGE success with the Pro-4's. It would be nice to see 15-20 of these on a Texas track on any given Saturday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top dog Posted September 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2005 IT LOOKS GOOD NEXT TIME THERE IS "ANOTHER PRO 4 RACE" 2500 LBS. AL. HEAD 8 INCH SLICKS. P.S. TALK TO RANDY HE SAID MOTER IS GOMING. GOOD LUCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-Crew Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Tim, That's a very nice, purpose built race car. You're absolutely right, comparing that to any Thunder or TPS car would not be right - they are modified stock cars by definition, not pure race cars as any Pro-4 should be. Off of the trailer, the were turning low 14's and over sprung. Dad said he knows he can get it in the 13's with the right setup. I hope that BWM knows how to handle the "bump-and-run", not to mention dognuts on that nice paint. Why? If you're 2-3 seconds faster than anything else on the track can't you figure a better way to pass :lol: Lalo, Sounds like he's ready to be first in line to take your money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 The fastest 4 cyl cars in Texas and 5 other states will be at Gator near Houston in Oct.Most of these guys run both asphalt and dirt and many only run races that pay 3000 or more.Sound intresting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cRt racing Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 well i hope you could get it in the low 13's i can remember the outlaw mini's , john and scott sullivan , doug mcbee ,david evans and little john meanaham i know im not spelling some of those right but they was always in the low 13's but it does look good and it is a ford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Dont forget Erick Wilson who was the fastest of them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 well i hope you could get it in the low 13's i can remember the outlaw mini's , john and scott sullivan , doug mcbee ,david evans and little john meanaham i know im not spelling some of those right but they was always in the low 13's but it does look good and it is a ford you can not be serious? i think tim meant it as a joke. that's like a super late model to a pure stock. it looks like a tubular chassis with an after market ford body. in other words , there ain't no bailing wire anywhere on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 I think tim meant it as a joke. You thought I meant running in the 13's with the Pro-4 car was a joke? If so, I wasn't joking. If that's not what you were reffering to, my apologies. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 i meant , i hope , you were joking in your comparison of your car to their class of pro 4. "super late model to a pure stock". {hint} it was suppose to be a compliment on your (your dads) car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 {hint} it was suppose to be a compliment on your (your dads) car. No sweat, I understand now. Thanks! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadRacing19 Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Crazyhorse, the "Outlaw"mini's were awsome cars in their time. Doug Mcbee had a full tube chassis car along with others in the class. They were the Real pro 4 cars of the time.Randy's car is Bada## but so were some of the Outlaw mini's. I know a few of them were running in the mid to low 13 second range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 i'm not saying the outlaw minis , with full tube chassis did'nt run low 13's- i'm saying these pro 4's can't.....and crt said"well i hope you can get in the low 13's".....i'm saying crt and some other pro 4 guys need to check that ego at the door because that's more car than they can compete with.....they tuck tail and ran from the fwd's..they'd be out of place to hide if this car comes down there and hands them their asses.....no offense meant to all the pro 4 guys- but geez some of you are rock stars in your own little made up world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 How much/many of the rules changed for those/these races from TPS cars to "Pro-4" cars at CC? I think making an all RWD Pro-4 series would be pointless if the only rules that are going to change is just which axles turn the car. If a Pro-4 series was made to get the most out of them, that would be worth it. I think Dad might be a little reluctant to put his car on the track though. If we turned low 14's off of the trailer on an over-sprung setup, I would be curious to see where in the 13's the car would run. That would be a site to see... #10 Eddie Orr 16.88 #7 Jessie sandoval Jr. 19.85 #24 Jimmy Castillo 17.14 #97 Ronald DeLeon (spun no time) #12 Bobby Smith 16.52 #2 Jack Dishman 15.98 #29 Mark Villarreal 17.80 #30 Chip Harmon 16.93 #47 Danny Blancher 18.17 #26 Joey Heinaman 16.29 #22 Brandon Skinner 18.55 #21 Tim Gilpen 16.64 (on street tires) #50 Gage Guevara 16.64 #25 Rocky Ables 18.62 #1 Brice Dishman 16.30 #88 Nellie Kelly 16.70 #07 Mike No time (timer problem) On a serious note, I will keep everyone in my prayers as the hurricane approaches. Stay safe! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top dog Posted September 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 We got it done this year . every body else can only talk.you can only lead horses to water . p.s. i see no body respects this pro 4 but hell every body talks about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double A Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Crazyhorse, you obiously have no clue how fast these pro-4's are, if i'm not mistaken the best time at the pro-4 nationals was a high 13, on a 1/4 track in california. They run 10 inch slicks and weigh about 2100 pounds and about 300 hp now whats soo hard to believe. Haters, its like the old saying goes "Talk is cheap" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 you "got it done".......one race at one track? that's your pro 4 "series"?????? what a joke... everybody talks about it because it's kinda like a really bad car crash , you dont wanna look but hell it's there so you might as well....and every dog has his day ,and you damn sure can't teach old dogs new tricks, don't bite the (TPS) hand that feeds you , and don't touch that dog he might have mange............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-Crew Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 It is a very valid and real discussion, Tim, What weight was your dad's car runnning when timing those "low 14" second laps? Under the "Texas Pro4" rules, he would have to be 2500 lbs... As far as the Pro Sedans goes, the rules are set to allow equal competition for all the types of cars that run the series. They are not designed to allow the fastest time to the best funded cars. There are loopholes and one of the loopholes that needed closing was the provision for aftermarket heads. This rule was put in place to allow the air cooled VWs to run competetively. At the time no other after market heads were available. Did someone build a car "to the rules" and dominate? Yes! Did the rules change to bring everyone back to an even playing field? Yes! Is your dad's Pro4 a class act, Yes! Does it fit with any existing class in Texas at this time, No! Hopefully, there will be a class where this car can shine without traveling to California to race. Should we all feel like less than real racers because we don't have the money to buy this kind of speed, He!! No. My admiration goes to people like Segio Hexel who can engineer a way to a championship without an unlimited wallet. No disrespect to your dad or the car but with the "Pro4" race Lalo put together, it would be like bringing a knife to a gun fight for you to race anyone in Texas at this time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Crazyhorse, you obiously have no clue how fast these pro-4's are, if i'm not mistaken the best time at the pro-4 nationals was a high 13, on a 1/4 track in california. They run 10 inch slicks and weigh about 2100 pounds and about 300 hp now whats soo hard to believe. Haters, its like the old saying goes "Talk is cheap" are you not reading what i'm saying ????????????????? the corpus christi based pro4's.... AGAIN the newly existing tx. pro 4's......not the california not the ohio , not the florida.......the tx. or should i say one race one track based living legends in ther own minds....yes folks the tx. (tuck tail and run) pro 4's. are not turning low 13's. around corpus... the car tim posted will. it is a california pro 4.........your cars are not .... if that's not clear enough, then your daddy was right , you should have atleast made that attempt at the 7th grade ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 1-Crew, I understand what you are saying, please don't take my replies as insults or taking cheap shots... I am not like that. This topic has had a lot of discussion through the years. As soon as one car/cars start to dominate, the rules change to level the playing field. Thats not fair to the people that worked their tails off to get the front, then get slown down again. There was a time when Randy dominated the series, on a pinto chassis, so money isn't everything. My point was to maximize the capabilities of the cars without spending and arm and a leg. I personally think 2500lbs is a bit too much for a 4 cylinder, but that is just me. I like the idea on an all RWD (domestic?) series because your playing fields (rules) are much easier to manage. That is not a shot at TPS in anway. That series has been successful for a long, long time. If a series like this is going to be considered, it is going to have to have someone with some serious dedication and smarts. I applaud you guys for at least taking some steps to make it successful. A series should maxamize the capabilities of the car without spending a ton of money, but at the same time not having to make your car weight 2800lbs. Everybody wants to go fast and win, but nobody wants to spend money doing it. Good luck guys and stay safe during Rita! Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-Crew Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Tim, I hear you.. To Lalo's credit he did put together an all RWD show and it appears to have been a success. Whether that can grow into a full series is something else. Randy did do a good job in TPS, no one is taking anything away from that. I'm not sure I agree with your stance on leveling the playing field but I understand where you are coming from. In my mind it keeps the racing intersting for all to have the rules changes, otherwise you get to the point where you can only win if you have a certain type of equipment and everyone else is just filling the field. It is a central concept to what makes TPS continue to be successful. The other approach is to do a true Pro-4 class where all the cars are similar (at least in concept) to yours and you are right, for a series like that to be successful, it is going to take a serious commitment from both the promotor and the competitors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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