kwiseman Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Fellow Racers, Fans, crew chief geniuses, owners, etc I have a topic of conversation for ya'll out there. My question is with the grooved racing slicks manufactured by goodyear that are being used for the HMP/THR Trucks, Nascar Modifieds, and I beleive the TSRS cars, has anyone developed, found out, researched, asked, etc how many number of heat cycles, laps, etc that this style of tire can under go before it needs to be sent to the recycle bin? I understand that the during a heat cycle, the tire undergoes a chemical change that eventually will render it no longer capable of providing the grip necessary to make the truck/car handle good enough to make quick laps. Does any one have an idea as to the answer to this question is? I am sure someone out there knows a Goodyear Tire Engineer.... or at least thinks they are one. During the 2010 season, we used advice from other drivers and also trial and error on our team's part to determine when it was time to replace the tire on a given corner of the truck. Most of you who know me understand than I am an analytical person and I typically make descisions based on engineering analysis and mathmatical results. The WAG (wild A** guess) process of elimination is not the fit for me. Additonally, with the numbers of newer racers to the truck series/asphalt racing in general, this topic may be of assitance in helping them determine when tire replacement is right for them. With out futher delay.... ya'll sound off. Kevin Wiseman Driver of the #28 DLR & Associates Chevy HMP Nascar 360 Pro Truck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Not sure about now but 30 years ago this kind of information was always provided by the distributor or a regional tech advisor. One of my first jobs was with Hurst - busting tires at Riverside for the lower level and local series. My boss had to not only go to seminars but attend tests so that he could answer just this type of question. Our goodyear rep came out of Carroll Shelby Inc in Vegas. The regional shortrack rep for this neck of the woods is Carter-Maxwell Inc, Bethany OK, 405-789-8253. As you pointed out we would all have advice, experiences etc - but there are a ton of chemical and thermal engineering principals designed into a race tire. Best to know the stuff behind the reasons that we do what we do (or don't) when pouring over the shared ideas. Kinda like WAGging with a plan if you will. Some tires get better in the middle of the cycles and the cycle swings themselves could be radically different from car to car as your car may get em hotter than the other guys! I agree it would be nice to know where your spec tire is prime from an engineering standpoint. Just don't forget the variables such as exposure to fumes etc - it's not just heat - crap on the track effects em as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC57 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Kevin, I would be interested in reviewing the data also. But until it's available, I'm going with the advice of the previous owner/driver and set-up men for the truck I will be wheeling. And that is: 2 races on the right side, 4 on the left. And I equate a "race" to 70 laps; consisting of practice time and the feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Frequent use of a durometer and some good record keeping will help you arrive at your answer, but I think you'll find that you won't gain anything beyond the tried and true practice of changing them out at a rate of about 2 to 3 races for right side tires, 3 to 4 races for the lefts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted January 27, 2011 Report Share Posted January 27, 2011 Frequent use of a durometer and some good record keeping will help you arrive at your answer, but I think you'll find that you won't gain anything beyond the tried and true practice of changing them out at a rate of about 2 to 3 races for right side tires, 3 to 4 races for the lefts. Very good point - I would also add pyrometer to that as well. Charting not only the end temps but start temps to see the depth and spread of the cycles compared to durometer degradation rate would allow you room to anticipate future performance... Back in the 70's we saw 100 car fields with only three or four pyros in the pits - they were very cost prohibitive. Now they're like 30 bucks at home depot! I have also seen lots of tracks use tire rules that say only one or two new tires per week. Thats become a big factor in the habits and "rules of thumb" developed along the way. That and our own individual budget constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneedude Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 use em till there burnt up and then go get some new ones! i personally like the good years they seem to hold up better then the hoosiers. heat cycles are also determined on how much heat. i usally have had better results "scuffing" new tires before racing on them (helps lock in the stagger) some time last year we where told that the tires are now being made in canada, they where made in mexico so we where told. late last season it started to become hard to trust the "hot mark" as they became incorrect and the tires seem to grow more than they used to. not sure how many other folks had this problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Jerry Spencer gave me the explanation today that he got from Goodyear about the size problem from last year. GY used to get the size markings by using 20 psi for the left side tires and 30 psi for the rights. At some point last year, they starting using 20 psi for all tires to get the marked size. That explains the difference we saw late in the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looneedude Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Jerry Spencer gave me the explanation today that he got from Goodyear about the size problem from last year. GY used to get the size markings by using 20 psi for the left side tires and 30 psi for the rights. At some point last year, they starting using 20 psi for all tires to get the marked size. That explains the difference we saw late in the year. thanks that will help a bunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrungot Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 That's a good explination to a nightmare.. they did get a lot more consistant towards the end of the year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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