Snowball Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 This is a link to the correction from Z3sports. http://www.z3sports.com/gasngo/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvinmcgee Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Looks like it was the Copperhead Eleven (11) cars for 100 laps. WOW!!! And one dns!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer61 Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Gotta love Mr. Brooks. "The MSD box is illegal, now I just have to find out what is illegal about it." i know what he meant but the wording made it so humorous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txtom Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Was reported on another site that the box was rewired inside with another chip with a higher rpm. Ruble stated that they did it, knew it was wrong, and accept full responsibility for it. Brooks also stated that he is having the box analyzed to find out what else may have been tampered with in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Why are people surprised. This has been going on for at least 3 if not 4 years. Start googling and you will be surprised. There is a guy who does traction controls for 6AL boxes. Somewhere I have all the resistor values for all the chips. Good place to start looking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 there's thing an msd box can do that msd doesnt know about and they built it-lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted August 12, 2010 Report Share Posted August 12, 2010 there's thing an msd box can do that msd doesnt know about and they built it-lol. Ssssh! Tommy I didn't want you to tell them... Hee Hee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted August 13, 2010 Report Share Posted August 13, 2010 This is something that really has my curiosity. When there are no wheel speed sensors, or etc to measure wheel slip (rpm increase over no relative undriven wheel speed increase) - how does trac control even occur? My thinking is simply regulating the rate of RPM increase (a "moving target" rev limiter) - but that seems it would hamper the "unexpected" fast lap when the driver gets the spot just right for getting to WOT on a changing track - he would miss the seat of pants input and thus not adjust his line consistantly - and actually lose the ability to go faster in the consitancy "window" (settling for a fast lap instead of finding multple faster ones). Any rewards of the risk are gone in such case which means risking MAJOR sanctions for nada! It seems that because of the "black topic" nature of trac cntrl no ones willing to discuss the how to's - which of course makes it harder to police (can't prove non existance). personally I feel electronic TC is redundant in that we have been using mechanical traction control in various methodology for years. Such as - tuning the arc(s) of the throttle pedal/carb linkages to create variable rate throttling, taking out timing, adding valve lash, changing suspension arm angles, torque arm rate and locations, spring rates etc - all as a way to soften the torque aplication from apex to WOT. Basically (IMO) Elect TC just adds another point of possible failure while taking away from the drivers ability to feel what is happening. That doesnt make me want to run out and risk my honor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertx Posted August 14, 2010 Report Share Posted August 14, 2010 Jw these guys are getting so smart there doing it with GPS I know this for a a fact. the unit is as small as a quater.If your going to race with the big boys you better be smart lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted August 14, 2010 Report Share Posted August 14, 2010 and have alot of $$$$$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted August 14, 2010 Report Share Posted August 14, 2010 Jw these guys are getting so smart there doing it with GPS I know this for a a fact. the unit is as small as a quater.If your going to race with the big boys you better be smart lol. Not with the current best GPS processing time being about 100 times slower than the proccessing time in the ign module. I won't buy that arguement! Currently Satellite signals take about 1/10 second to reach us. If slowing down your drivers mechanical throttle response acordingly is helpful - please sober the driver up or replace him. Your ign is sampling (with ground or wheel speed sensing) around 1200 times per second - thats why TC is faster than the driver and applies a beneficial response. Regulating that sampling to something calculated 1/10 of a second in history is kinda not working for me in any manner. Drone pilots complain about the same thing! they become a little clumsy because of the delay (which changes with weather and atmospheric conditions) sometimes - the military budget has gotten their stuff down to half a tenth I would bet... No I found out something likeTHIS is what the cheaters are using - you don't even need GPS - and you are back to a 600-1220 p/sec sampling....Could even be mounted in the shoulder of your HANS, ribbon wired in the straps. But the point comes back to why cheat? Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of COMPETING? How can it possibly be worth it to knowingly recieve accolades to which you are not entitled? I personally can not understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supertx Posted August 14, 2010 Report Share Posted August 14, 2010 jw i'll send you to the people that are doing it there $8500 send me a pm if your intrested. Cheating depends on what you race hobby levels it would be cheating at the pro levels when your feeding not only your family but the whole crews family it's war you do what ever you have to do, if your land speed racing it's about being faster than anyone else it's not cheating.I think that one of the biggest problems today in racing there stifling inovation and creative thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted August 14, 2010 Report Share Posted August 14, 2010 I do not need to know who they are to know waht the involved sciences are. Especially after a couple recent points in direction of study. They are using the GPS not as a locator or measuring device - they are using it as a clocking standard. GPS sat signal is fairly unique in that it broadcasts an algorithm to correct time in quartz clocks (+/- 1 sec) to atomic clock (standard of 1 in 10 to the fourteenth or something like that). This correction yeilds a 10% accuracy improvement of the existing clock (silcon processor based) in the ignition box. At 1200 samples per second this means their device is 120 samples more sensitive than a competitors cheating device. You don't need GPS clocking accuracy to acheive faster than human response to a measured effect (the basic def of any ETC) - all you need is your measuring clocks running at a faster frequency than the human response speeds can detect and 1200hZ is more than enough for that! Aside from the fact that the more precise the control clock the more more control one has over the controlled clocks. It's their equivalent of all those other pitches in your spam box about making parts larger than they are. Spend that money, placebo's work in some cases so the chances are there that it will help..... (I understand the fact that dual band GPS can obtain accuracy with 1/100 of a second if within proximity of a land based broadcast of clocking corrective data - the basis of transponder scoring - I am being satirical). It need not be that complicated - two measureing clocks (monel lug nut to create a 5/4 clock on front wheel, distrib pulse count), compared across a standard clock (processor in ign box) and control speed variation (using spark control at the module - controlling clock). Thats where you look to police it. Right now its relatively simple to eliminate tampers with ign boxes (the standard clock) and modules (control clock). Swaps coupled with a very strict inspection for sensors and related wiring (or RFID freq transmitions) and its easy to police. Once an on board processor in addition to the ign mod is introduced (injection legal) it will become that much easier. especially with RFID device proliferation. So when we go injection legal (hey injection is far less wear and failure prone than carb and its much safer to not have evacuated pistons bouncing over the fence and hitting fans) I think we should allow TC - a controlled application of it, as part of transponder data. After all that transponder freq itself is a good readable clock for a suriptitous standard clock anyway. And its required . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted August 14, 2010 Report Share Posted August 14, 2010 it's war. Holy Jihad - Traction Control is a War Crime! Lol Its cheatin in any class if the rules specifically mandate different. It's only not cheating when honestly interpreting the grey areas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KISS_Racing Posted August 15, 2010 Report Share Posted August 15, 2010 JW, Look up Stratum Clock... Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvinmcgee Posted August 15, 2010 Report Share Posted August 15, 2010 Make it legal. Problem solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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