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tech questions


Del Harris

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i went to tech after our race 3-28-09 speedfest, after passing thru weigh-in, i was told to pull my car over by the other pro-stocks cars and wait on brad, i did so and when brad showed up, he told me to pull my battery wire from the ignition side of my distributor. i took off the breather and pulled my batt. wire, he checked the power from the battery to the ignition on his amp. guage, he said it was o.k.. then he went on to tell me that it may be a problem in the future with my valve covers because they were aluminum. i ask him what did aluminum valve covers have to do with performance? he said, don't get upset or anything, i'm just telling you it may be a problem in the future and you won't be able to run them.

 

i was beyond upset because i never hurd such a thing. then he told me that our rules state that the motor must remain as shipped. :blink: i ask him again, what kind of performance did the valve covers have on our class and that we put the aluminum valve covers on our cars because we show our cars at texas roadhouse to promote hmp and it just made them look better.

 

he informed me that he would get back with me, low and behold, he did. he just called me today at 4:28pm and advised me that if i had my valve covers on my car for the next race that i would be disquallified. :( , i ask him, what about the pro late models and the pro mods, his answer was " we're not talking about them, we are talking about the pro stocks.

 

my question to every racer is; should the rules for one class be any different than any other class and should all of the pro lates and mods have to change thier valve covers too?

 

mr. dixon and i have had differences in the past and i don't think he cares about my opinion, but i was born to know what fairness is and i stand by it 110%. if my car is illegal, then there is a bunch more just like mine. if you are going to enforce a rule on one person, then do it on all. jmo thanks, del harris :angry:

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I understand your frustration, but my take on it is this...not all rules are designed to limit performance. Many are designed to cut costs. It sounds like this may be one of those rules or rules interpretations. It's been my experience that when the rules writer or rules enforcer gives you an interpretation of the rules that is going to be applied to everyone, you're best off just following it that way.

 

I know it's frustrating because you've already spent the money to dress the motor up, but have you priced a set of the fabricated center-bolt aluminum valve covers? Maybe that's what you've got. Ouch! Sometimes we racers are our own worst enemy, and the rules makers need to protect us from ourselves to keep us from pricing ourselves right out of our own class.

 

Fire away.

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My take is if your rules state that the motor must remain "as shipped" then you were illegal. Be glad that you were not DQ'ed. At the IMCA Super Nats., you would have been. As stated above, we(racers) are, at times, our own worst enemy.

 

I would suggest that you have a printed set of rules with you at the track every night. And know them inside and out. The tech people are human and can make mistakes also.

 

IMCA has a rule on bumper hieghts. We had a car that had to be lowered 1 inch in the rear to meet the rule. That was a couple of years ago but the rule is still the same. Now I build the cars with the bumper lower and within the rules. That rule has nothing to do with performance but it is still a rule.

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john, i have left a message on your phone, why can't someone call me back? i did not call graham, i called about this problem to talk with you, i took my motor to klete's and had it built last year and klete put the valve covers on it, the rules say as shipped by the manufacture or certified rebuilder, please, just call, thanks del.

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mr. walker and ss99, thanks for your comments, but if my car is illegal by the rules, then there is a lot of pro lates and mods that are under the same rules, per the 2009 rules for each class at hmp. , thanks, del

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Geez, it is just a set of valve covers. You are making yourself look less than stellar here. They told you what you need to do to be right. Just do it man. It's not like you can never, ever bolt them on the motor, just put them on, go to a show, take them off, and go race.

 

Just because your motor builder put them on there , it doesn't make them legal. If he had put dome pistons and a roller cam in it would you be campaining that those are legal also?

 

So what, if the Lates and Mods have them. Look at the rest of their deal, it is out of control, You can make a stink, but I bet HMP just gets with those guys and changes the rulebook to allow it. How do you know they haven't already? and just didn't update the page. Dont' know what this is suppose to solve.

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Del,

 

I would suggest that you spend less time worrying about other classes, less time on airing your laundry on the internet and use this time to change the valve covers back as the rules state. I have not called you back because you have already spoken to the HMP Tech Director. The rules for NASCAR Fiesta Late Models, NASCAR Cricket Modifieds, Pro Trucks & Pro Stocks state that the "crate engine" must remain "as shipped" from the manufacturer. Please allow HMP Tech Directors to do their job and address technical issues with other competitors and classes and concern yourself with your car. Continuing this on the internet is inappropriate and serves no constructive purpose for yourself, the Pro Stock class or HMP. This is the last response regarding this subject from HMP on the internet.

 

John Mandabach

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I should never take the wife out to eat. It's an open invitation for the soap box to get set up....

 

It's like if you want to end a severe drought, take your roof off to re-shingle. Guaranteed it'll rain before you can button it up.

 

If I had caught this one early, I would have pulled it, but since the track - and several other reasonable folks - have responded, I will leave it up. But, please put the soap box back in the closet!

 

I will applaud Del for at least waiting until he had talked to "the track," but getting on the soap box to plead one's case against a track's ruling, rules, etc, before the court of public opinion is not what Lone Star Speedzone is all about. There are other sites where that sort of thing is commonplace, but not here.

 

Nick

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Del,

 

......... The rules for NASCAR Fiesta Late Models, NASCAR Cricket Modifieds, Pro Trucks & Pro Stocks state that the "crate engine" must remain "as shipped" from the manufacturer. .............

John Mandabach

 

John,

Now you've got me confused. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pro Lates can still change the oil pan and pickup, valve springs, rocker arms and harmonic balancer can't they?

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i am sorry about using this site to get an answer, i tried using the phone, i suppose everyone was busy, but i want to thank all of you for your responces. i enjoyed racing at hmp for the past few years and they are a great racing family, i built a lot of loyal race fans while being at this track. the other racers and their pit crews have been very nice reguardless of what class they ran and helpful.

 

i don't like negetive things said about any track because we are all trying to do the right thing and with the best intent, i love the graham family with all my heart and thank them for giving me a place to play on the weekend, i have and will continue to brag about the hmp facility and it's owners, 1st class, no doubt!!!

 

i wish the tech personel the best in their year at a job that requires so much, i am sorry if i said anything to hurt brad or anyone else at hmp, tech men have a hard job, but, be honest with every tech that you do, do not cut anyone short of being an honest winning champion.

 

with best wishes to all the hmp staff, officials, and foremost, the baker family,

del harris / #1 pro-stock :rolleyes:

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valve covers are not what need to be checked on crates. Seems pretty strange that a crate eng. with an advertised HP can pull out and make passes (on the straightaway) on cars with atleast 50 hp on them

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valve covers are not what need to be checked on crates. Seems pretty strange that a crate eng. with an advertised HP can pull out and make passes (on the straightaway) on cars with atleast 50 hp on them

 

 

Car running faster in the corner will apear to have a bigger engine(more HP) down the straight away. What engine option have you chose to go with? I try and find speed in the corner and it will make your life alot easier.

 

JMO

J.C Umscheid

817 783 7383

512 496 0195

Call if you need to!

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Crate motors are a joke.They killed super late model racing in TX.

 

 

I agree to a point...........I have a Super late sitting on jack stands that I would love to be running, but to say that Crate Engines killed Super Late Model racing is wrong. Look at the car count from HMP. Look at ASA and their car counts. I think the crate engines opened a new door for alot of racers that wouldnt be racing Late Models if it werent for the crate engine options. What car do you own, drive or crew for?

 

J.C Umscheid

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valve covers are not what need to be checked on crates. Seems pretty strange that a crate eng. with an advertised HP can pull out and make passes (on the straightaway) on cars with atleast 50 hp on them

 

 

Car running faster in the corner will apear to have a bigger engine(more HP) down the straight away. What engine option have you chose to go with? I try and find speed in the corner and it will make your life alot easier.

 

JMO

J.C Umscheid

817 783 7383

512 496 0195

Call if you need to!

 

Please dont take this as an attack on you or your brother JC but the crate mods won almost every race last year, finished 1-2 this year in KYLE, and Houston. Same cars. I got passed by your brother and he not only pulled my off the corner but at the end of the straight. He did the same with Menard, and I believe that is an open motor. I understand the left side percent on the crates is a hell of an advantage,(too much in my opinion) but the straightaway passes at THR and HMP sure make you scratch your head. I know what I have for a motor and I just cant quite see how better corner speeds make that much differance.

Just my opinion. Please dont take this personally JC, you and your whole family always have great equipment and a hell of alot of experiance to back up your performance. Just not sure I agree with the rules.

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The easiest way to determine how much horsepower the motors actually have is to put it on a dyno. There are some out there who can get well over 450 hp out of a 400 hp crate motor. That coupled with the left side weight percentage and a slight weight advantage is a reason why the crates are doing so well.

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The easiest way to determine how much horsepower the motors actually have is to put it on a dyno. There are some out there who can get well over 450 hp out of a 400 hp crate motor. That coupled with the left side weight percentage and a slight weight advantage is a reason why the crates are doing so well.

 

Bingo! We have a winner. The crates have a nice advantage which makes them almost unstoppable. I will still race my 2 bbl engine with them, I just dont think that the rules have leveled the playing field. But again thats my opinion. I didnt write them nor was i asked about them. See you guys at the next one.

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If you are 10 mph faste in the corner, you are going to be 10 mph faster, if not more, going down the straight. Like JC said, find corner speed and you will find straight away speed. And if he can get in the gas fasster than you, he is going to be much faster.

Exactly.... How much corner speed is 2% (59% vs 57%) left side worth? I think the 2bbl and the crate are pretty close in horsepower but the advantage is in the leftside weight which helps with corner speed not to mention the ability to use the outside groove.

 

What do you guys think is a realistic horsepower range for the 3 engine combinations crates,2bbl and open ?

the rules seem to imply there's not much difference in a 2bbl and the open motor( 1% penaly) but a lot of difference between the 2bbl and the crate(2% penalty). I like the way the rule allows for different engines which means more cars can compete with existing equipment,but I think the difference in performance on the track deserves a second look to see if the rules are really an equalizer, as intended or an advantage for the crates.

 

I also want to say JC,Michael,and David have this thing figured out, and I don't want to take credit away from the job they are doing because they work hard and their efforts show on race day.That includes being smart and taking advantage of everything the rules offer.My congrats to all of them.

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