naskarts higher speeds

[beaner]

HELLO GUYS AN GIRLS. AFTER LOOKING AT THE RED RIVER RACE. I HAVE DECIDED TO LOOK INTO SOME TYPE OF ROLL CAGE. WE ARE NOW TRAVEL AT SPEEDS THAT COULD KILL IF A WALL WAS HIT JUST RIGHT. I KNOW THAT MARTY HIT TE WALL AT RED RIVER AN THE WALL SUCKED HIM IN. IT WANT BE AN ELABRATE CAGE,BUT ONE THAT COULD BE EASLY GOTTEN IN AN OUT OF,MAYBE THROUGH THE TOP.IT WILL ATTACH TO OUR CURRENT FRAMES. i'LL WORK ON A COST ALSO. TRYING TO KEEP IT INEXPENSIVE. AS FOR THE RED RIVER RACE, I THOUGHT YOU GUYS DID A GREAT SHOW DESPITE BLOWING 4 ENGINES. I'LL KEEP YOU UPDATED ON PROGRESS. MEAN WHILE ,BE GETTING READY FOR A GOOD SHOW SAT NIGHT AT THUNDERHILL. LATER... BEANER.......

[CuttingEdgeRacing]

Roy,

 

I have the tubing bender to bend roll cages. I've been building cages for about 5 years and can get something done for these karts, for sure. I would need to buy the die for the tubing we need. But thats no problem. It should be an 1 1/2 tubing. That should C-notch right over the exisiting frame.

 

If I could get a bare frame, I could build the cage. It would bolt together. I think I could make it a slip joint style cage, with tubing that slides over the end stubs of the frame. The cage would probably be about 400 dollars. I think a simple sprint style cage with a side bar would work best. Let me make a drawing and post it up.

[CuttingEdgeRacing]

Ok, here we go:

 

 

 

I know this is a bit confusing, but its simple, and WILL WORK. There will have to be belts added to the karts. A 2" harness will probably do. Most can be bought for about $50 bucks. Two tabs next to the seats can be used as the lower belt mounts and the horizontal bar across the back mounts the upper part of the belts. The cage can be made out of a 1 1/2 mild steel .080 wall. This will be enough for strength, but still light.

 

I measured a bit, looks like most karts would need about 25 feet of tubing. Figure about 7 bucks a foot for material. SO, $175 for material. Labor will be around $250. Belts $50. Roll bar padding $20. So, total install probably around $400 is more realistic.

 

Like I said, if its something that ya'll really want to pursue, I can handle it for you if you want. I would need a commitment before purchasing the die for my machine. Each cage could be built exactly a like so there would be equal weight placed on each kart. This will put a big change in the way these karts handle.

 

Let me know what you think.

[beaner]

Roy,

 

I have the tubing bender to bend roll cages. I've been building cages for about 5 years and can get something done for these karts, for sure. I would need to buy the die for the tubing we need. But thats no problem. It should be an 1 1/2 tubing. That should C-notch right over the exisiting frame.

 

If I could get a bare frame, I could build the cage. It would bolt together. I think I could make it a slip joint style cage, with tubing that slides over the end stubs of the frame. The cage would probably be about 400 dollars. I think a simple sprint style cage with a side bar would work best. Let me make a drawing and post it up.

GOOD IDEA. MAKE A MOAK DRAWING. LET ME SEE IT. THEY SAY ITS BEST TO BE THROWN OUT OF A KART,BUT I STILL AM CONCERNED. I HAVE A BARE FRAM SIMULAR TO THE BERIEL WE USE. MAYBE YOU COULD PLAY WITH IT. JUST A CONCERN. AS I KNOW WE ARE TRAVELING MUCH FASTER NOW ,AN WELL BE EVEN FASTER NEXT YEAR. GOT MEGANS HEAD FIXED,AN MADE SOME IMPROVEMENTS WHILE WE WERE AT IT. SHE SHOULD BE FASTER SAT NIGHT. CHAT LATER.... BEANER....................

[CuttingEdgeRacing]

I could make this cage fairly detachable as well. Remove 6 bolts and the cage should slide up off the kart. The mounting stubs would remain. That way ya'll don't look like idiots running iron rock with roll cages.

 

I would need the exact birel chassis. I wouldn't want to spend 10+ hours of work to fit a cage to something that doesnt work for your karts. Once I fab it up, I can create a decent jig.

[Big G Smith]

The reason they say it is best to be thrown out of a kart is because most kart racing is done on a road corse. The concern is the kart flipping. Wheel to wheel contact. It is best to be thrown free of the kart in a rollover. You don't want the kart to bo on top of you.

 

Our situation would be different. Although we have had a kart flip at Thunder Hill, fortunatly their was no wall to hit. Had that accident happened the same way at Red river it would have smashed Chris Terrys head between the concrete wall and the kart.

 

Mast of the paved oval tracks here in Texas have walls all the way around the track.The 3/8 mile track in Houston is just like Red River only as fast as Thunder Hill. Hitting that wall at 70 MPH would be devistating.

 

Take a look at what happens to the crash test dummies when they test cars in a head on crash at 35 MPH.

Then think about hitting the same wall at 70 MPH with no roll cage and no seat belt?

 

If it was engineered properly, a cage could be added when needed at ovals with walls and removed for road corse racing. It would effect the handling although all of the karfts would be affected the same.

 

This is something we need to look at for next year. We need a prototype to study and test but it needs to be a Birel N35 chassis. I would like to see a working prototype. We may be able to get a chassis from MRP.

 

In the mean time, lets have some fun Saturday night at Thunder Hill

 

I will check with Gary Lobaugh.

[CuttingEdgeRacing]

Give me a chassis with a seat, and the money for the materials and I'll make you a mock up cage. Then ya'll can ponder over it. If there is a cage on the kart, you must be belted in, bar none. Like I said, I can make it detach as one big unit for the road course.

 

Here are some pics from my past cages:

 

The roadrace corvette I've shown some of you:

 

Mustang (just after it rolled):

 

Drag car (don't ask..but the cage worked):

 

Hope that shows you kinda what I've done. Those are all my cages.

[TLROBERTS55]

HEY GUYS, I THINK THE CONCEPT OF A CAGE IS A GREAT IDEA. BUTT! THERE ARE A COUPLE OF ISSUES THAT MAKE IT VERY HARD TO PUT A ROLL CAGE ON A GO-KART. FIRST, IN ORDER TO BUILD A CAGE THAT COULD WITHSTAND 500 POUNDS HITTING SOMETHING AT 70 MPH IT WOULD HAVE TO BE EXTREMELY RIGID, WELDED NO BOLTS!! THIS IS A HUGE PROBLEM FOR A KART BECAUSE THEY USE THE FLEX OF THE CHASSIS AS SUSPENSION; THE CAGE WOULD NOT ALLOW THE CHASSIS TO JACK WEIGHT TO LIFT THE INSIDE REAR TIRE. THE KART WOULD BECOME SO TIGHT THAT TURNING IT WOULD BE NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE. REMEMBER MOST RACE CARS THAT HAVE A ROLL CAGE ALSO HAVE SHOCKS, SPRINGS AND A DIFF. THE SECOND THING WOULD BE RESTRAINTS, 5 POINT HARNESS AND ARM RESTRAINTS. IN MY YEARS RACING USAC YOU WOULD BE SUPPRISED HOW MANY GUYS I SAW WALKING AROUND THE PITS MISSING ARMS BECAUSE THEY HAD FLIPPED A MIDGET OR SPRINT CAR, WERE KNOCKED UNCONCEOUS, AND THE ROLL CAGE ROLLED OVER THERE ARMS AS THEY FLIPPED. TRUST ME I AM ALL FOR SAFETY BUT PUTTING A ROLL CAGE ON A KART IS A HELL OF A LOT HARDER THEN SLAPING SOME TUBING ON. IF IT’S NOT DONE RIGHT THE CAGE COULD BECOME MORE DANGEROUS THAN IF THERE WAS NOTHING AT ALL. THIS IS JUST MY 2 CENTS.

[Big G Smith]

I will call Gary Lobaugh at MRP in Mi. and see if he has a chassis he could send us for the prototype. I agree it has to be an N35 Birel chassis for the project

Smitty

 

Travis

 

just read your post and you are the most knolegable regarding this sort of thing. It was a good idea but we would be changing the whole scope of our class.

 

Probably should put this idea on the back shef.

 

We will stick with what we are doing and stay away from tracks like Houston.

 

Smitty

[TLROBERTS55]

PLEASE DON'T GET ME WRONG GUYS I THINK A ROLL CAGE IS A GREAT IDEA, THE LAST THING I WANT IS SOMEONE TO GET HURT. THAT WAS MY NUMBER ONE WORRIE FOR EVERYONE THIS LAST WEEKEND, NOT WINNING OR LOSING. BUT THE PHYSICS OF THIS WHOLE THING MAKE IT REALLY TOUGH. IT WOULD TAKE DESIGNING A DIFF, AND BRAKES ON EATHER SIDE OF THAT DIFF. VERY POSSIBLE BUT EXSPENSIVE. IT MIGHT TAKE DOING WHAT THE BIG BOYS DO, ONCE THE ENGINEERING GET’S TO THE POINT WHERE THE CARS ARE TO FAST, THEY SLOW THEM DOWN. (RESTRICTOR PLATE). YEA I KNOW WHAT YOUR THINKING WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU WANT TO SLOW DOWN WHEN SO MUCH TIME AND EFFORT IS PUT INTO GOING FASTER. SAFETY THAT’S WHY. YOU’RE NOT GOING TO BE GOING VERY FAST IF YOU’RE MANGLED UP OR DEAD….

[n2racing2]

I am not a fan of a roll cage on a kart. I want out of it if it wants to roll. Chris's accident was a product of putting a person in a NASKART FOR THE FIRST TIME who had no experience in one and thought they were bumper cars and proceeded to drive that way during that practice. That was also 2 years ago and since then we have made sure every driver understands the consequences in our series. Drafting is one thing...driving out of control is another and slamming another driver is another. The reality is these karts are hard to roll unless you are driving over your head and without any regard for your fellow competitor. A roll cage will NEVER be introduced into this series. If you want a roll cage....find another series you are comfortable with. With a 6.5 hp motor instead...they are out there and they run on dirt. Also, we have gone as far as we can on these motors....we WILL NOT GO any further on going any faster. The speeds are fast enough. If you want to go faster...again...find another series. If you worried about getting hurt...don't race. Cause you can get hurt in any type of racing. If walls are a problem for this series...then we make it just a road course series again. Problem solved.

[TLROBERTS55]

YEA BUT YOUR A LOONEY MIKE. YOU LIKE TO RACE THINGS WITH 2 WHEELS. THOSE CRASHES ARE SWEET BUT NEVER REALLY END WELL. THERES A REASON NOT EVERYONE RACES, ITS RISKY, THAT’S WHAT MAKES A RACE DRIVER DIFFRENT FROM THE REST. SPEED, RACING, AND THE CONSTANT LIVING ON THE EDGE TO US IS LIKE CRACK TO A CRACK HEAD. IF WE DONT HAVE IT WE START TO FREAK OUT AND START TO SELL EVERYTHING TO CHASE THAT HIGH.YES WE ARE ALL ADDICTED TO SOMETHING THAT CAN SERIOUSLEY HURT US. THE ONLY DIFFRENCE IS THAT THEY HAVENT MADE IT ILLIGAL YET.

[n2racing2]

Travis....."Shake and Bake!"

[Big G Smith]

Mike has it wright. [edited out by Nick Holt, 6/12/08]

 

I will say one thing. The topic got a lot of attention on this forum.

 

We go plenty fast and I for one would like to go back to Red River in Octomber cauz that was a blast. Thunder hill is going to be fun also on Saturday.

[bkuempel]

I, too, am against the roll cage.

 

Essentially, we already have restrictor plates as our carbs can't be bored any larger. I think we are pretty much at our limit.

[CuttingEdgeRacing]

THE CAGE WOULD NOT ALLOW THE CHASSIS TO JACK WEIGHT TO LIFT THE INSIDE REAR TIRE. THE

 

 

Also, we have gone as far as we can on these motors....we WILL NOT GO any further on going any faster. The speeds are fast enough.

 

These two points make the the most sense. Although these motors can go faster in my opinion. The cage is a crazy idea, but worth entertaining. The only way to make the series "right" is to go through though processes like these. There is a reason no other karts/series run cages (without suspension).

 

*psstt...go road racing, you just drive off into the dirt*

[beaner]

Travis....."Shake and Bake!"

OK. FORGET THE ROLL CAGE IDEA. SEVERAL OF MY LONG TIME RACING FRIENDS SAY IT IS NOT A GOOD IDEA AT ALL. THE ADJUSTMENT WAY WE DO IT NOW WOULD GO OUT THE WINDOW. THEY WOULD NOT LIKE TURNING LEFT OR RIGHT,BUT WOULD LOVE TO GO STRAIGHT. SO ,GUYS FORGET IT. LETS JUST WORK ON WHAT WE ARE DOING,AN GET OUR DRIVING TUNED A LITTLE BETTER,AN ALL WILL WIND UP GOING FASTER. SEE YA SAT NIGHT AT THUNDERHILL............ SORRY ROBERT,BUT I THINK THIS IS THE BEST IDEA FOR NASKARTS. NO ROLL CAGES. BEANER...................................

[Big G Smith]

We could extend the length of the frames and put big slicks on the back and make Funny Karts out of them.

We could probably turn some 40 second quarter mile times at 45 MPH.

[TLROBERTS55]

HERE I HAD TO POST THIS PICTURE AGAIN. HELL THESE GUYS RAN ON WHAT LOOKS LIKE A DIRT BIKE PATH, NO BUMPERS, BIKE HELMETS, SKI SUITS, AND AS YOU CAN SEE WHEN THEY WERE ABOUT TO FLIP THEY JUST LEANED ON EACH OTHER TO STAY RIGHT. GRANTED THEY WERE NOT GOING NEARLY AS FAST BUT THESE GUYS MAKE US LOOK LIKE WOOSES.

 

O YEA I WOUNDER IF THEY LIKE RUNNING THE MG'S OR THE BRIDGSTONES BETTER. LOL

 

 

[Go Fast]

HELLO GUYS AN GIRLS. AFTER LOOKING AT THE RED RIVER RACE. I HAVE DECIDED TO LOOK INTO SOME TYPE OF ROLL CAGE. WE ARE NOW TRAVEL AT SPEEDS THAT COULD KILL IF A WALL WAS HIT JUST RIGHT. I KNOW THAT MARTY HIT TE WALL AT RED RIVER AN THE WALL SUCKED HIM IN. IT WANT BE AN ELABRATE CAGE,BUT ONE THAT COULD BE EASLY GOTTEN IN AN OUT OF,MAYBE THROUGH THE TOP.IT WILL ATTACH TO OUR CURRENT FRAMES. i'LL WORK ON A COST ALSO. TRYING TO KEEP IT INEXPENSIVE. AS FOR THE RED RIVER RACE, I THOUGHT YOU GUYS DID A GREAT SHOW DESPITE BLOWING 4 ENGINES. I'LL KEEP YOU UPDATED ON PROGRESS. MEAN WHILE ,BE GETTING READY FOR A GOOD SHOW SAT NIGHT AT THUNDERHILL. LATER... BEANER.......