Meeting

[DCRST#3]

Hey, the TDCA would like to race at CC next year. Should some of us attend this meeting?

Thanks TDCA #3

[Shawn B]

I think the track can talk to ya'll and see what they can do

[thumper]

I am curious as to what ideas are being considered to bring new cars for next season.In Thunders 2 problems need to be adressed,the unfais weight on cars with small engines and what can be done to help the cars with automatis transmittions.There are lots of good models of 4 cyl cars with automaticsthat would make great racers but need help because of how much the trans takes awayMaybe a better tire for them like an 8 inch.

The small engined cars need a weight break to be competetive.A 1600cc car should not have to weigh 2100 pounds.A formula like a pound per cc should be used for cars with engines below 2000cc.

If something is not done to attract the newer cars then its back to the dozen dinosaurs of which half break before the feature is finished.Not a good show.

I remember a Tempo the track had for a play car and thats the kind of car Im talking about.Cheap and plentyful.Will and Todd showed the new breed is very competetive and cost effective.We just need to add the automatic cars too.Give them something.

Finally,the cars need to look intresting.Ground effects,flames,ect.I like the character idea too.Make your car something to remember.

Does anyone have anything positive to add?

[oldracer]

Late models

pure stocks

mini stocks-back on slicks

bombers that are really stock the last few years they have been getting more like the old pure stocks

demo derbys at least every other month or so

go back to the fast cars start in the rear

[BJ34]

Are you going to put flames on thumper gb Todds car i think was a basic car but Wills car had a little money under the hood

[HiTech]

Are you going to put flames on thumper gb Todds car i think was a basic car but Wills car had a little money under the hood

the problem is ..thumper wont run a stock motor ..and yes gb i agree this class needs some help from those other typ cars ....... old racer .they start the fast cars in the rear ...points wise ...slicks no and we have some ..just to costly ..we pay $ 102 for slicks per tire ..cc will burn one up every week or so ..depending on you cars set up ...they will make you go fast thow ..i like that part ... just need toget a handle on some of the tires thunders run ..i think they should run one or two tire brands and thats it .if you want to keep the cost down ... aswell as being fare ....and also go to 8 inch .its to hard to get tires below that ..we can afford just aboult any tire one way or another .but alot of those others cant ..now would we like to spend the money on tires that go faster than others can afford maybe ..but thats not really what this class should be .. another class runs slicks .. we race with sometimes .... any other typ of tire and your setting in the back forty ..so to keep up you have to pay up ..

[50Gage]

Oldtimer,

 

I like that phrase " so to keep up. You have to pay up." Me personally, I think the class is fine the way it is.

I think the drivers and crews just need to do there homework ( that's half the fun). But, if CC decides to make changes so be it.

[ratdaddy]

I would say leave the tire rule the way it is, but add that the tire has to punch no less that 60 on the durometer after the feature race or anytime during the night they are checked.

[thumper]

All that is needed to keep tires in a level field is to check the treadwear number on the sidewall.Anything under 200 is a race tire.A tire without a treadwaer is not a street tire.Red River Speedway has used this formula for many years.ALL STREET TIRES HAVE A TREADWAER NOMBER>The number is stamped near the edge so a re-cap does not have this number eather.Its like a mattress label.

Unless someone is going to stockpile tires you cant regulate brands.If a team wants to buy used tires at a tire shop they dont always get a certain brand.

And if everyone wants to run a STOCK motor thats good too,I only have to change a cam.

I am not going to give all my money to a race tire dealer for slicks.I run a low 16 on street tires,a 1580 on 7" slicks,a low 16 on the Hooser 8" slicks and a 15 flat on 10" slicks.I quit the outlaws because of the tire bill,spent too much buying recaps because I only got the scraps after all the local drivers got firse choice and every other tire was a problem.The Hooser 8" tires were discovered by me but they are not faster enough to justify the cost.Like Oldtimer I would out spend most with fresh rubber to be in front.Plus it would be harder to get new start up teams when they have to buy 500$ of tires off the bat.

I am still wanting to hear how to attract new teams.That was the subjet here..

[Abel64]

I AM SORRY RATDADDY BUT I WOULD HAVE TO DISAGREE ON THE TIRE RULE. I DON'T KNOW MUCH BUT I DO KNOW THAT STREET TIRES ARE ABOUT $90 OR SO AND TO BUY THE CHEAP ONES WOULD ONLY MAKE YOUR CAR A LITTLE SLOWER, BUT PUT THE SAME SLICKS FOR ALL CARS AND YOU GET A LITTLE MORE OF A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. I WOULD SAY FOR ABOUT 20 OR 30 MORE DOLLARS THAT WOULD BE WORTH IT PLUS THAT WOULD BRING THE KYLE AND SAN ANTONIO CARS DOWN A LITTLE MORE OFTEN AND THAT MEANS MORE CAR COUNT, EVEN IF IT IS EVERY SO OFTEN. DON'T MEAN TO CAUSE ANY TROUBLE OR ANY BAD COMMENTS FOR ANTYBODY TO PUT DOWN BUT LIKE OLDRACER SAID, HE TO REMEMBERS THE GOOD OLD DAYS WITH THOSE TIRES,GREAT RACING ACTION,MORE SIDE BY SIDE RACING.THANKS FOR READING SEE YALL AT THE MEETING.

[ratdaddy]

Abel, I do agree that the street tires are not that far off from the cost of racing tires, but considering that the racing tire will wear out much sooner that the street tire, therfore the expense of the racing tires are greater and the teams with the deeper pockets that can afford new rubber every week will have new tires and some wont be able to keep up or have a chance. I am not sure what the surefire answer is but we do appreciate all the comments and this imput is very important and for a start up team in any class we all need to make it as afforable as possible and competitive as possible. Keep the suggestions coming

[thumper]

What about the small engined cars and the automaticcars?Do we want them or not?I personally dont care about rules,youall make special rules for me every year but it hurts the other cars more.I know for a fact the key to big car counts is inclusion,not rejection.That means new teams.More kinds of cars.No fighting amongst ourselves,easy start up costs and a big purse.

In McAllen where Thunder cars began there were many types of cars and even some trucks.When they started eliminateing cars for being too fast or too experienced they lost most the cars.Funny thing was when the top car was elimanited,the next car in line dominated.Then they were elimanited,and so on.Had they left the racers alone there would be tons of cars.Now with the rebooting the Toyotas are leading the battle with 3 in the top 4 in points.Thats what is needed now.The bickering between FWD and RWD has eliminated all but the Fords and VWs.Dont forget theres another track to attract the same cars also.With the price of fuel Im not sure I can make the trip next year but maybe once in a while.

Now what can be done to attract new teams?

[Pumpkin 29]

I have to agree with thumper, when I started at cc in the minis you could build a car and go racing for less than a $1000 and be competitive. That first race that season had 6 cars , the final race of the year I believe had 29 we ran stock with very minor changes. but you knew you had a chance to win. the class grew and pretty soon guys from San Antonio and the Valley and Del Rio were coming to race with us. I think you can't give one thing without it getting out of hand . simple rules are easier to police. Racing is supposed to be fun, as an old driver it was more fun to work your way to the front than to start there . Maybe I'm rambling but I really enjoyed running there. ask Oldtimer we had at it a time or two(lol) right . I know I spent that first year building cars out of crt and that last night with all those cars you felt like you accomplished something. At that time the minis were the class to watch. Oh well back to work. my 2 cents

[HiTech]

I have to agree with thumper, when I started at cc in the minis you could build a car and go racing for less than a $1000 and be competitive. That first race that season had 6 cars , the final race of the year I believe had 29 we ran stock with very minor changes. but you knew you had a chance to win. the class grew and pretty soon guys from San Antonio and the Valley and Del Rio were coming to race with us. I think you can't give one thing without it getting out of hand . simple rules are easier to police. Racing is supposed to be fun, as an old driver it was more fun to work your way to the front than to start there . Maybe I'm rambling but I really enjoyed running there. ask Oldtimer we had at it a time or two(lol) right . I know I spent that first year building cars out of crt and that last night with all those cars you felt like you accomplished something. At that time the minis were the class to watch. Oh well back to work. my 2 cents

then the fwd came along .and the rwd started getting beat ..so the rule was changed to up the rwd and then the fwd got something and so and so on ...bobby remember when we had that many minnies 98 percent were rwd ..and purty much even ..hell even a supperstock driver two to be correct moved down to race with us ..it was cheap then ....stock motors recaps and still ran 1660.s but i will agree with gb ..why not let them in ..got to start the future going before the past ends ...even field ..welp we have been there before to even the field .it can be done again ..gb i dont remember ever see.ing a rule against auto trans ...

[ratdaddy]

OK I have been thinking about the tire deal and I have a couple of questions.

What brand tire?

 

Who would stock & sell them?

 

Which tire compound would be best for CC?

[ps 72]

Will the AR G-60 wear to fast.

[thumper]

Dont forget to stock 13s,14s15s and if Todd comes back he runs 16s.Most FWD cars have too low of 2nd gear because of the smaller engine so each car needs something different.

OT,its not that autos are illegal,its they need help to be competetive.We had a couple and the trans takes too much horsepower.Likewise with the small engine cars.Unless this is going to be a Ford show again.Its funny CC complains about FWD cars and STS wants to slow down a Mustang.OT,tell me what you would do to help the automatic cars and the small engine cars.A pound per CC and better tires for automatics is fine by me.Or should we slow down all the big motor and standard cars so the small and auto cars can have an "even chance"

What I remember about 07 is Pappys Mustang and my VW ran pretty close.2 good cars running together,one fwd,one rwd and different tire size.Which car needs help?

The real problem I saw was twice 2 cars got together and locked together and went into the wall.I believe we need rub bars to keep tires from getting inside of each other.Both of these wrecks should have been no more than a bump or a spin but got hooked instead.A rub bar between the front and rear tires not past the tire width would have saved several cars.This needs to be adressed.

At STS if the fast Mustang would have started in the back like CC does he might not have won every race so the brand of car did not do it.It was something about dirt cars cant work their way to the front without tearing up their cars.Im glad CC sees this differently,I think it makes better drivers.JMO.At RGS I cant seem to get to the front without somebody running over my nose so maybe its true.

If we get a spec tire,I run a 15 on RF,14 on LF and RR and 13 on LR so add my order to the lot.

[Shawn B]

there might be a lot more laps in the feature ..........it will be up to the drivers that vote,,,,,,

[BJ34]

he did start in the back one time and he lost because he had to get around slower cars and with a slick track and he placed 2nd . what is the problem with getting around other cars i started in the back with a stock neon and placed 2nd the only damage was from bubba and when my cv axle broke and hit the wall. what about Will he started in the back and won the race i think that is where he was at.

[HiTech]

Dont forget to stock 13s,14s15s and if Todd comes back he runs 16s.Most FWD cars have too low of 2nd gear because of the smaller engine so each car needs something different.

OT,its not that autos are illegal,its they need help to be competetive.We had a couple and the trans takes too much horsepower.Likewise with the small engine cars.Unless this is going to be a Ford show again.Its funny CC complains about FWD cars and STS wants to slow down a Mustang.OT,tell me what you would do to help the automatic cars and the small engine cars.A pound per CC and better tires for automatics is fine by me.Or should we slow down all the big motor and standard cars so the small and auto cars can have an "even chance"

What I remember about 07 is Pappys Mustang and my VW ran pretty close.2 good cars running together,one fwd,one rwd and different tire size.Which car needs help?

The real problem I saw was twice 2 cars got together and locked together and went into the wall.I believe we need rub bars to keep tires from getting inside of each other.Both of these wrecks should have been no more than a bump or a spin but got hooked instead.A rub bar between the front and rear tires not past the tire width would have saved several cars.This needs to be adressed.

At STS if the fast Mustang would have started in the back like CC does he might not have won every race so the brand of car did not do it.It was something about dirt cars cant work their way to the front without tearing up their cars.Im glad CC sees this differently,I think it makes better drivers.JMO.At RGS I cant seem to get to the front without somebody running over my nose so maybe its true.

If we get a spec tire,I run a 15 on RF,14 on LF and RR and 13 on LR so add my order to the lot.

gb you have some good points ..but how much money does pappy have in his car just to catch you ...just his motor alone is twice as much as your car cost ... the set up to go fast cost more money than most parts on your car .... nelly.s cars has alot of modified stuff in it just to try and keep up with you ...not to mention what poor bugger had in his motor just to try and keep up with all the other fast cars ..and did a fine job at that ... ..you forget what it takes to keep up with you ..now you cant fool me into thinking your motor only needs to pull the cam to be stock ..you may get that by a rookie but dont try it with me ..lol ... now what if neon will and tim had run at cc .. who knows ...21 and the other ford where not stock aswell ..alot of money in them just to try and keep up ..now your saying what do we need to do to help auto.s hell i dont know .havent seen one on the track sence bill and his wife had a pinto back in the 80 .s so what is running at other tracks wont help here at cc ...someone has to build one to know ..and if and when someone does ..im sure the driver in the class will work with them ...so it boils down to who wants to give and who dont ..and i know you wont give ..you never have once sence i have known you .say ..my car is to fast so ill take something off to slow it down or add something ..believe me i have done that before you even came along to run minnies ...afetrc you stoped racen dirt and outlaws ..now your talking aboult tire size ..run one size rim 13 14 15 ... if your car dont handle on one size ..work on it .... im sure you can come up with a set up ..we do ..i think your car is to light ..but thats jmo ..... you say nerve bars ..that is not smart ..gives that driver a safer feeling at cc .and would only make him or her drive crazier ...wont be worried aboult anyone ..just bounce off and go ..so to fix that both drivers have to learn how to drive .and give enough room ...with two dogs going after the same steak that wont happen even if you have nerve bars ..your going to wreck anyway ...

[railer]

OK I have been thinking about the tire deal and I have a couple of questions.

What brand tire?

 

Who would stock & sell them?

 

Which tire compound would be best for CC?

I think about the treaded hoosiers kile runs them $ 88.00 Also you can find some pull offs from the limiteds that run dirt Smileys has them. Some of the S.A guys had them on their cars when they came down JMO

[Pappy_GT13]

My car is an ex dirt car bought from Zac Zearfoss (?) for $1500. The engine came from Ernie (#55) for $2500. Nothing in the suspension is aftermarket racing parts. The ft. struts came fron O'reilly, same for rear shocks.The srings came from a salvage yard, I don't even know the rates! My tires are Sumitoma HTR 200 size 215/50 R13 on 13x7 Paulson rims on all 4 corners, available at Sears or The Tire Rack for about $60 each. They last more than a full season if your car is setup right. Leave the tire rule alone! Any change in tires may also mean a gear change & setup changes that will cost more money.

I run the 350 cfm carb because it spins the tires too easy with a 500 cfm.The engine is exactly like Ernie ran it except for the oil pump, ignition system & the smaller carb. No " trick" parts any where.

"Rub Rails" will not help when another car hits directly on your front wheel as in my wreck. The problems are usually caused by the same drivers every week & should be handled by the track the same way they did when the Yocum's first took over. The track official - usually Randy Darden at the time - would talk to the drivers involved & set them straight as to what the track was going to allow. If that didn't work you might be invited to leave your car at home for awhile. I know firsthand. Thing is it made you get better. And we had appearance rules that were enforced! Remember Doris? You didn't even go on the track for practice until she checked your car every week. & she almost always would tell you to repair something before the next week. The cars looked & ran better for it.

We also followed procedures for running the races that were outlined every week. From exactly how & where the race was started to telling the drivers of slower cars to just HOLD their line when being overtaken by the faster ones.

Personally, I feel the fewer changes the better, since changes always cost money. I'm afraid money to race is just going to get tighter as fuel prices rise along with every thing else. I can't afford to change much & still race. JMO

As far as automatics go, someone will have to build one & race it before you can begin to know what they need to be competitive. And I mean a real attempt by some one who knows how to setup a car.

[BRR96]

Very good point pappy,,,,,,,, I hope you will race next year

[Flyin34]

Street tires average around $65 and last up to 7 nights on right side and 10 nights on left.

 

Race tires cost around $110 and last maybe 3 to 4 weeks on right and 6 to 7 on left if that.

 

I understand the want for race tires. Sure, they are fun and fast. Unfortunately, at CC they make for a lot of follow the leader racing. Realize, though, that you will price a lot of people out of the game. Whoever has newer tires will go faster. Street tires never really fade. Finding a consistent dealer and getting the stagger you need will be a major concern. Racing tires will allow the out of town racers to come race, but how often will they show up vs how the cost will affect the local racer is a concern.

[railer]

True, The cost will be hi ,but the hoosiers are about the same( theaded) compound as a street tire they are a hard tire , is that true? ok no raceing tires on ss but we need to vote on intake rule .run any alum intake with added weight or run the 2101 with the same rule The new intakes will keep the engine cooler which keep cost of rebuilding from a over heated motor 125.00 intake or 1000.00 to 1500.00 rebuild??