stang21 Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 THEY ARE A STOCK FORD SPRING THAT YOU CAN GET ...BUT DAN SAYS YOU HAVE TO RUN WHAT CAME IN THE CAR STOCK ... I KNOW OF SOMEONE ELSE THAT IS DOING THE SAME THANG RUNNING FACTORY SPRINGS BUT DIDNT COME IN THE CAR STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford12 Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Gb im not tryin to start nothin with u we had problems in the past and thats all put behind us. We didnt cheat to win a champ. and are springs are not illegal but to Dan they would be casue there not the one from the factory but they are a factory ford springs bought from ford. We dont have to cheat to win [edited out by Nick Holt, 2/1/06] we can hardly win at all. My biggest thing was to up the weight on all cars to min.of 2100lbs instead of feather light 1800lbs to even the playing feild. Your car weighs 1800 and somethin lbs i know cause i have been in tech a few times with u. Im sure every mustang that runs out there weighs at least 2200lbs or more. Hell we have one in the garage that is totaly guted with not roof on it and i bet its weighs around 1800lbs or more lbs. Gb im not talkin crap or nothin but if we cant do nothin to even the feild why waste my time to go out there. Last year 5 rwd cars won a feature. 99,12,6,21,50. and the rest frwd 77,14,46. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 All this bickering is what causes tracks and promoters to not like dealing with the ministocks. Same thing over and over every year. Start giving ideas about what to do to even the feild. If the ministock class is unfair then move on up to the Super Street class. We welcome all ministock drivers. Heck nobody will think you are stepping down to a lower class and we will welcome you. Heck I almost sound like GB now. And best of all, no complaing about front wheel drives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMWMPOWER10 Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 My BMW weighs 2375 lbs. I think if any rules should come about it should be about the motors. The price to just keep up is astronomical. But, I don't care I'm out to have fun and hope everybody else can settle all their matters. Hope to see yall at the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crewcheif21,73 Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Your right poorboy this is all retarded thats why i give up. [edited out by Nick Holt, 2/1/06] Good luck at your SupeStreet meeting tonight should be a god one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Ford12,you were the one that said your springs were illegal.With the same rules,they were the same legal now as last year or before.Had you stayed at the meeting you would know your springs are fine as long as they are not from a racing store.Sometimes its interpetation thats in question and thats where group involvement enters the picture. I have no problem with rule adjustments to help a vehicle but I really get tired of penalities.We are building a Mustang right now that will weigh slightly over 2000 lbs with driver.It does not have crashable pipe all over it,its made to go fast not crash.Its professionally built and is very safe.People were saying my rabbit weighed 1200 lbs and came up with the minimum weight.I made the minimum without any added weight and the rabbit was also built liteweight .The Scirroco just raced in Gator where the minimum weight was 2000 lbs and was over by 30 lbs with a 50 lb weight.You want light weight,get help from modified drivers,they live for it.BTW the minimum weight at Gator was added for a paticular car,RWD,and did not change him winning again lapping all but 5 cars.A 2100 lb weight limit will not slow me down because I will get a bigger carb and weight to put on my spinning LF tire.We volontarly gave away locked diffs to even out the field.Without the locker,a FWD is like any other car.With it they are hard to beat because you dont need a working balance.What will happen with the heavy weight is eliminate many types of cars that can be made Thunders.Like BJs CRX.The small cars dont have brakes and bearings to carry that weight at our speeds let alone enough power to push it.The idea is to make more models available for future Thunders.Its not about you or me,its about them.You have said Mustangs are the most expensive to make fast and Will,Todd and I have shown that you can be fast without tons of money with the right car.Im glad you guys dont race Neons or Integras because with your resourses nobody could run with you.This weight thing has been tried many times and never acheived the desired results.I had 400 lbs of lead on one of my cars to make 2300 lbs and won with it.And remember,Super Streets weigh 3400 lbs and are faster than all of us.On street tires.Any rule to penalize me will hurt the wrong persons.Any rule adjustments in your favor you will benifit all the RWDs.I go for the second choice.This argument is not new,years ago it was decided no RWD could run with a FWD,then my brother came up with a Toyota corolla with a 1800cc engine at 2000 lbs and not only beat me,set a new track record.And I had a locker. And I think the dirt track has the same rules but with locked FWD diffs,necessary for racing mud.Prehaps racing there will give you an oppourtunity to better learn chassis.I run dirt whenever I can and will be there until CC opens.See you there ,G.B. PS.Im glad you were not cheating afterall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-raser Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 to set the record straight, my new car has two illegal parts in it. Front weight jacks. I will gladly weld them up or whatever so we can race like 15 years ago. A lot of people are talking about the past, how about the future? The truth still stands, we had 21 cars, and that is plenty. New guys always come up to counter attrition. FWD, RWD it doesn't matter. You cannot turn this into a beginner class and expect top dollar pay-outs. Lets see, that hasn't worked in the last 15 years either. All I ask of Doc is concessions to race with y'all at the track I most enjoy. I'll pay the penalty and take my chances. As far as finances, its communistic to try to dictate rules based on money spent. Why not just have everybody switch cars every week? Thats about as unamerican. If someone wants to spend their hard-earned money on their car, let em. But quit being scared of competition. Also let me say that I never have nor never will cheat, everything was pre approved by race management. So get off that kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford12 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 GB no reason to get all hostil like i said im not tryin to start anything with you. Im not gonna race with a hardass like the one thats gonna run cc. I rather go race dirt and suck at it then go race cc and deal with a bunch of crap. Enough said see ya on the dirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad20uncle21 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 GB WHY DO YOU DRIVE ALL THE WAY TO CORPUS CHRISTI TO RACE,WHEN YOU HAVE A DIRT TRACK RIGHT IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD IN MCALLEN? Â JUST CURIOUS? Â AND ONE OTHER QUESTION DID YOU HAVE YOUR FRONT DRIVE LOCKED WHEN YOU BEAT EJ AND WILL'S TRACK RECORD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysnake Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 WOW! I stay gone for awhile and miss a ton!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford12 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad20uncle21 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 HERE IS WHAT OUR SUGESTIONS OF THE RULES WAS [edited out by Nick Holt, 2/1/06]  THE ONLY REASON I SPENT SO MUCH TIME AND EFFORT IN WRITTING THE SUGESTIONS WAS NOT BECAUSE WE HAD BEEN CHEATING BUT IT WAS TO IMPROVE THE PARITY OF THE CARS (JUST LOOK AT THE FWD WINS VS. THE RWD WINS FOR THE PAST THREE YEARS THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING. IM NOT DISCREDITING GB'S DRIVING EXPERIENCE BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THE FWD'S HAVE AN ADVANTAGE OVER THE RWD'S THE RACING HAS BEEN GOOD BUT I THOUGHT WITH THESE CHANGES IT COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER, BUT NOW WE WILL NEVER KNOW. JUST REMEMBER IT WAS DAN MONROE WHO SAID I WANT TO CLEAR UP THE GREY AREAS AND MAKE THE RACING BETTER.  PLEASE NOTE: THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND WHAT I EMAILED TO DOC IS THE UNDERLINES DONT SHOW UP IN THIS FORUM.   Texas Thunder Rules Revisions Proposals  Rule changes and amendments proposed to be changed: 1. Name of class. 2. Claimer rule and Name of rule change. 3. Competition Models 4. Body requirements 5. Suspension 6. Rear Wheel Drives / Front Wheel Drives 7. Engines 8. Carburetors / Fuel Injection and Weight Rules 9. Exhaust  1. Current Name: Texas Thunder Class Proposed Name Change: Texas Mini Stock Modified Class  2. Current Name: Claimer Rules Current Rule: The claimer amount is $1,200 plus car. Example: 4th place driver claims the 3rd place car. The driver of the 3rd place car gets the $1,200 plus the 4th place car. The 4th place driver will get the 3rd place car. Only the top 4 cars can be claimed by a driver finishing in one of the top 4 spots. The claim does not include any safety equipment, racing seat, seat belts, window net, etc. Refusal of the claim will result in a 2-week suspension and loss of all money/ points for the night. Claims must be made within 15 minutes of the end of the feature race. The driver doing the claiming will have to bring his or her money to the Track General Manager to make the claim. Proposed Name Change: Protest Claim Rule Proposed rule Change: The protest claim is $200.00. Only the top three cars going through tech after each feature race my post a protest claim. Protest claim must be made within 15 minutes of the end of the feature race. The driver doing the claiming will have to bring his or her money to the Tech Director or General Manager to make the protest claim. Example of the rule: If driver B feels that driver A has illegal parts or modifications on his or her car then that car will be inspected for the violation, if the no violation is found then the $200.00 will be added to the driver’s points fund for the class but, if the violation is found to be valid then driver A will lose his points and money for the night and driver B may keep his $200.00 1st Violation will result in loss of points and money for the night. 2nd Violation will result in loss of points, money for the night and two week suspension. Any refusal of protest claim will result in loss of points, money for the night and two week suspension.\ 1st Non-valid protest claim will result of loss of $200.00 2nd Non-valid protest claim will result of loss of $200.00 and loss of money for the night. 3rd Non-valid protest claim will result in loss of $200.00, points and money for the night       3. Competition Models: Note only change to this rule will be underlined Production model 4 cylinders only. Sedans, Coupes, Station Wagons and pickups trucks only. No four wheel drive. Front mounted engines only with exception to the Volkswagen Bug.All drive components must be in stock location. Front and rear wheel drive OK.   4.SUSPENSION Current rule: NOAFTERMARKET SUSPENSION PARTS! NO EXCEPTIONS! Spring Spacers OK. Proposed rule change: Strut towers may be modified to gain negative camber by both cutting and welding the tower. Adjustable strut mount plates may also be installed to obtain negative camber. Aftermarket springs may be allowed but, must remain OEM stock style or stock appearing to gain proper spring rates, springs may also be cut to gain spring rate. Spring spacers may be allowed but, weight jacks are prohibited. Sway bars must be stock but, will be allowed to be adjustable (loading of sway bar OK) Polyurethane bushings will be allowed. Shocks and struts must be OEM stock, Adjustable shocks and struts are prohibited.    5. Body requirements: Note only change to this rule will be underlined. All glass must be removed except windshield. Windshield may be replaced by 1/8 thick Lexan, plexiglass is prohibited Window bars or screen may be acceptable as long as they provide adequate driver protection. Track safety director will have the right to refuse any items deemed unsafe. All the following must be removed: carpet, mats, seats, all chrome trim inside and out, headliner, all plastics and any sharp objects. All doors must be welded, bolted, or chained shut. All holes in the driver’s compartment must be properly blocked to avoid debris from entering the driver’s area. Bumper must be welded solid and may be made of tubing or stock automotive type may used but, also must welded on solid. Bumpers cannot be wider than body. Fenders may be trimmed for tire clearance. Hood and trunk hinges must be removed and hood/trunk pins are required. (No Bolting) The front firewall must remain stock and in stock location. With exception to exhaust holes.* See exhaust rules  6. REAR WHEEL DRIVE / FRONT WHEEL DRIVE Note: only change to this rule will be underlined. Current Rule: Rear ends/Front ends must remain stock for that car. No changing of mounting. Front wheel drives may not lock the front end, and no posi-trac systems allowed. Front wheel drives may not chain any part of the front or rear suspension. Rear wheel drives can lock the rear end and use posi-trac systems.         7. ENGINES Note: only change to this rule will be underlined No rotary engines allowed, No turbo charge engines. All engines must be stock mounted in stock location. Fuel injected engines will be allowed but the engine must be of what the model was produced from the factory, no substitutions of different engines from different models may be may used in the car being raced.  8. Carburetors / Fuel Injection Current Rule: The 5200 series Holley/Weber Carburetor is allowed with No modifications! 350CFM Holley carburetor will be allowed with a 2100lb minimum weight after race, with driver, (NO FUEL TOP OFF). 500 CFM (4412) Holley carburetor will be allowed with a 2300 lb minimum weight after race, with driver, (NO FUEL TOP OFF). Factory Fuel Injection is allowed. Two (2) return springs are required. All Carburetors must pass inspection with track GO-NO-GO Gauges. Driver must notify tech with what carburetor they are using at the beginning of the season. If the Carburetor is changed it is the driver’s responsibility to notify tech. Proposed rule change with weight requirements amendment: No multi mounted carburetors will be allowed. The 5200 series Holley/Weber Carburetor is allowed with a 2100 lb. minimum weight. (NO FUEL TOP OFF). 350CFM Holley carburetor will be allowed with a 2200lb minimum weight after race, with driver, (NO FUEL TOP OFF). 500 CFM (4412) Holley carburetor will be allowed with a 2300 lb minimum weight after race, with driver, (NO FUEL TOP OFF). Factory Fuel Injection is allowed with a 2400 lb. minimum weight after race, with driver, (NO FUEL TOP OFF). Two (2) return springs are required. All Carburetors must pass inspection with track GO-NO-GO Gauges. Driver must notify tech with what carburetor they are using at the beginning of the season. If the Carburetor is changed it is the driver’s responsibility to notify tech.         9. EXHAUST Note: only change to this rule will be underlined Headers will be allowed. *Headers coming through the firewall to exit out the right side door may be allowed provided they are completely sealed of any exhaust fumes from entering the drivers compartment and must be total covered and enclosed by sheet metal and fire retardant insulation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neon14 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 Hey Rick! You wana race? Saturday, 2:00pm sharp. Your farm truck against my farm neon, loser buys the beer. Neon Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwk6740 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 This is my first post on texas speedzone. I attended the meeting sunday fot the texas thunders. I am crew member/chief of the new #11 mustang which will race this comming season as a rookie. I was a "member" of the 21 crew when he won the championship in 2004. EJ, TIMMY, BIG RANDY, FRANK, FRANKIE, LITTLE RANDY, AND EVEN CHARLIE. yall all busted yalls asses week in and week out on that car as a team. yall deserved it. Well according to dan at the meeting to my understanding yalls cars are all legal. I do not agree with the way he approched yalls proposals but yalls springs are legal. He said any junk yard spring. to my understanding if yall go to a junk yard and find some racing springs according to his words take the recite with yall cus its leagal. My brotheer and i have learned alot from all of u and continue to learn from yall. All i know is all of u guys love racing, its in yalls blood just like my families dont let a little mishap like this stop yall from doing what yall love. yall worked to damn hard and long to let a misunderstanding keep yall of this track. This track has been here for a long time and no matter who ownes it , runs it or whatever it will be there. Dont let one person keep yall from what yall enjoy. Benton Kemp "trey" Crew member/chief #11 texas thunder 2006 rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tps48 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 As someone on the outside looking in on the Texas Thunders, this is what I see- A great class with good rules, good car count, good competitors but ready to implode despite it's success. But rule changes cant even out skill level.It's the same in every class of racing- there will always be guys who can build a winning car and there will always be guys who couldn't win a race if they were the only one in the race. You can pass any rule you want--Heck, make FWD cars run on 3 wheels, and a guy like GB could still build a car that can win. His advantage isn't in the rules, it's in between his ears. So don't worry about the rules. Work on building the best car you can that takes FULL advantage of those rules. Do your homework. Go faster because you learned something, not because you slowed another guy up. You wont know what a great thing you have here untill its dead and gone. Work to make your class better, not divided. JMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 in 1989 i myself frank carpenter and steven crt racing took all our high dollar parts off our cars we went with bone stock eng took our racing tires off ran racing springs becuz it was safer for the drivers to be able adjust your car we went to 7 inch tires all the same brand so everyone was equal at that point cars were 1 pound per cc. the motors in the cars had the most 100 horses we went from 5 cars in 1989 to 29 cars 1990 we had 17 rookies. that year ,14 of them won one or more races it just shows you that you can work out the problems  you have to give to recieve .btw guys we were turnning times at high 15 low 16 in the 1985 to 1989 went to 16.7 to 17.4 in 1990 .the fan base grew larger we had super stock drivers move down to the minnies they had fun we help each other out we built 13 cars in stevens shop in 1990 1991  heck gb was racing back then on asphault and mud .  the things yah are going through now .is like the racetrack [ there is a start line and finish line ] they are the same line . it always circles back. tkink about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 hey hi mike 48 your advice was perty darn good except in pro sedans rear wheel drive did thier homework but got to fast front wheel drive could nt keep up so the rules were ajusted to slow down the rear wheeldrive now the rearwheeldrive and frontwheel drive are alittle closer . still needs a tweed bit more for our side but i think neil is trying i mean we give up close to 600 pounds to the front wheel : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin34 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 This kind of thing happens in every class. Differences in opinion are going to happen. That is what makes us human. Like it was said before, it is a cycle. I have been racing at CC 14 years, and have been at that track my whole life. You guys could agree totally on a set of rules today, and next week there will be differences of opinion once again. There were years when I was so fed up with management, rule changes, weight rules, etc., and some went in my favor. But I never quit racing on someone elses behalf. I have raced my stock ass, heavy camaro against clip cars with aftermarket bodies and racing suspension, and won championships.I've never raced a mini-stock, and I don't know how weight and different changes affect a 4 cylinder car, but most of the time my car has been 100-200 pounds heavier because of my reluctance to want to cut up and change my car too much, and I still won races. Â Anyway, some changes may need to be made, maybe not. I'm not familiar enough with thunders to say. All I'm saying is that you guys have put in too much time, effort, money, and have way too much fun racing to let a change in management run you off. I have raced under so many track managers, and I don't think I totally agreed with one of them. (Maybe that says something about me!) I just put up with it and went with the flow and raced my ass off with whatever I had to race with, because that is the only way I race and have fun doing it. Â Do what you want to do, don't let someone else dictate if you race or don't race, run dirt or asphalt. I plan on running both because I want the opportunity to race against some different competition and get some seat time in a new arena. I have spent plenty of time being pissed off and arguing, not saying I haven't. I haven't seen eye to eye with Owen or Dan, but I will race under both of them no matter what my opinion is of their rules or management practices because I love to race, and the day I put my racecar on jackstands for eternity, it will be on my terms. (That sounds like a line in a movie, doesn't it) Â And if you just can't go out and have fun with the way things are, I mean, that is what it is all about, having fun, then get a boat. Â Anyway, my point is, do what you want to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cRt racing Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 well this class changes every year it seems but gb a while back we had a min weigh of 2050 on all cars you gripped every week cause you didnt like the weight it was good racing we had like 15 different winners that year but the cars were very close and gb i dont think you will get a mustang down to 2000 lbs the lightest i got one down to with driver was 2120 but good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 I still say keep the rules the same and penalize weight by performance. There can be a formula that can keep these cars even. This could be a good thing for all especially the rear wheel drive cars. But in order for this to work you would also need to remove the weight when that cars performance went to crap. I don't think it is good to make all fwd weight the same as the rear wheel drives. Not all fwd perform as well as GB or Will. Some fwd cars only have maybe 135 hp and the ford 2300 can have alot more than that so it is not fair at all for them to weight the same. Also not all the drivers are the same, remember this was originally an entry level class. Why should a beginner with a front wheel drive be penalized just because GB and Will are so fast. Just think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 lets just have a demo durby race and see who wins .... rules are any 4 cylinder car dont matter wieght or horse power.... after market any goes parts and any tires.... no rules in the race .... first to complete 30 full laps around track wins....... no cautions and know going to back of pack for causing pile ups ....... you can hit um ram um put them in the wall no rules just first one to finish wins.... that will even us up.....lol or just let the 2 car win please lol lol lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 RULES we dont need no stinking rules lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 tires.... still waiting..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad20uncle21 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 tires.... still waiting..... WHAT ABOUT THE TIRES? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honda 46 Posted February 1, 2006 Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 all i know is you need 4 of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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