Nascar & Floracing

[24nomo]

Nascar has brought short track late model racing back to the top.  They had like 54 Late Models Saturday and the people watching it overloaded Floracing.  LOL   Get Nascar and Late Models back in Texas.  They just signed an extension with Flo Racing to televise them.

[WMI]

It would be great to have late models in Texas again, but I'm not sure how many are left and some of those that are went to outlaws. It would be a challenge for sure.

[arob]

The only way Texas could get Late Models is someone building a 1/2 mile banked track similar to SAS. Then you will need a big payout to keep them. I don't see that happening.

 

[NickHolt]

On 11/25/2024 at 3:47 PM, arob said:

The only way Texas could get Late Models is someone building a 1/2 mile banked track similar to SAS. Then you will need a big payout to keep them. I don't see that happening.

 

It could happen if someone with unlimited resources and a true love of asphalt short track racing wanted to make it happen. Of course, they shouldn't expect a return on their investment unless, of course, they used it as a tax write-off or as a front for a money laundering operation. 

[24nomo]

I am sure glad Elon Mush and Bill Gates etc didnt think that way.  Every Entrepreneur had the courage to take a risk and most fail.   Creative financing at times does not require a venue to make money.  It is very easy to say it cant be done and the guys that could make it happen sure will not if the public is preaching it cant be done

[NickHolt]

On 12/5/2024 at 8:39 AM, 24nomo said:

I am sure glad Elon Mush and Bill Gates etc didnt think that way.  Every Entrepreneur had the courage to take a risk and most fail.   Creative financing at times does not require a venue to make money.  It is very easy to say it cant be done and the guys that could make it happen sure will not if the public is preaching it cant be done

Perhaps you're right, 24nomo. Please get Elon's and Bill's private contact numbers so I can run a proposal by them. 

However, over the years I was directly and personally involved with two (and potentially three) reputable entities attempting to develop a business plan that made sense. They all came to the same conclusion:  There was no way to build a new half-mile or restore SAS and obtain a return on their investment within a reasonable time period. 

And we all witnessed several less-than-reputable, well-publicized attempts to rebuild SAS or build an entirely new facility over the years. In each instance, the principals either lacked resources, integrity and/or brains and their efforts failed miserably despite significant public grass-roots emotional support.  

[HiTech]

still waiting for my billion mega win  .. then ill built the track we need .  i  will need a tax write off  you know . and nick  you may have to go back to work ... ,,the pay would be worth it . .. but please dont hold your breath   on any of this happening, bad on the heart  ...... and 24nomas , u can  join in  too ..if it happens .

Edited December 8, 2024 by HiTech

[24nomo]

On 12/7/2024 at 6:19 PM, NickHolt said:

Perhaps you're right, 24nomo. Please get Elon's and Bill's private contact numbers so I can run a proposal by them. 

However, over the years I was directly and personally involved with two (and potentially three) reputable entities attempting to develop a business plan that made sense. They all came to the same conclusion:  There was no way to build a new half-mile or restore SAS and obtain a return on their investment within a reasonable time period. 

And we all witnessed several less-than-reputable, well-publicized attempts to rebuild SAS or build an entirely new facility over the years. In each instance, the principals either lacked resources, integrity and/or brains and their efforts failed miserably despite significant public grass-roots emotional support.  

Mr Hellmund had creative financing and Mr McCombs put up the money to build that 250 million dollar fine facility in Austin.   I Mr Hellmund would have told Red it could not have been done, it would not have been there.  The Entrepreneur figures out a way to get it done.   Also, that guy that was the Mayor in Cibolo tried to educate the locals how to get public money and noone was interested.  If it were as easy as build it and they will come, everyone would be doing it.  Elon and Jeff Bezos got it done when everyone said they couldnt

 

Oh yea, Now Cota is spending another 105 million on additions.   LOL  It cant be done.   LOL

COTA is the best racetrack in the United States of America

Edited December 10, 2024 by 24nomo

[RodneyRodriguez]

Those grounds would be the best place for a replacement pavement track. Add the allure of the venue it would make sense. I have discussed this idea with some folks there and we even found the place. Talks go south when they say 1. Would competitors (they don't say racers) support it? 2. How profitable would this be for our investment? 

I usually change the subject there. I could tell them we could do a Facebook poll or video but I think we see how those work out. 

 

[24nomo]

Yes, Mr Rodney, money is not the issue with building a race track.    The problems are not easy to fix.   We are where we are for a lengthy list of reasons.   Trying to manage a group of competitive and ego driven people is not easy and not many people want to do it.

[ron.brown11]

The track project is absolutely doable. Return on investment would probably take 5-7 years. It could be a great draw for some type of races like the SRL has run at Berlin Speedway, and Five Flags Snowball Derby. I also think that they could generate a decent fanbase fairly quickly. But that all hinges on getting enough team owners and drivers, willing to build late models or super late models, and bring them to the track. This plan won't work if they can't field a premier series cars.

 There probably are some cars out there sitting, but nowhere near what's needed to have a decent field, week in and week out. Plus, if the track did want to have some larger shows, how many "locals" would have the equipment to compete with those traveling teams? Not having any competitive locals would hurt attendance for those bigger shows.

Here's why I think this could work at COTA. Marcus Smith, of SMI, already has a good working relationship with the powers that be at COTA. He wouldn't keep renting the track if he wasn't making money there. He has put very good funding into North Wilkesboro, and that has paid off nicely for him in just 2 years. Add to that, him seeing what the new CARS Tour management has done for the late model racing scene on the east coast, and hopefully soon on the west coast. So with what those 2 groups, they could build a good feeder system for the top 3 divisions in NASCAR. I think that NASCAR would like to see that too, and maybe contribute some capital, who knows? But it will all still come down to having enough people willing to spend the money to build cars, and bring them to the track regularly. Rodney, you know way more car owners in TX than I'll ever know. Have you tried to get a feel for the pain tolerance of these folks? Tracks always have a better chance for return on investment (ROI) than car owners. As an owner, you always know that your investment can be gone in an instant, along with any chance of ROI. The reason I call it pain tolerance, is because it's been so long since there has been any LMSC or supers running in TX regularly. Nobody wants a $55k lawn ornament, that they can't get 20 cents on the dollar back if the track closes. My modified didn't cost me that much, but it still would have been a terrible financial pill to swallow, as I lived through that in Tucson. To me, the car owners will be the deciding factor. Tracks owners can always write off their losses. 

Merry Christmas to all!!

[MikePeters95]

Oh boy, this again.

I'd like everyone suggesting an asphalt track get built to post one single bit of evidence that they've attended one of the 20+ uses of the oval at HMP this year, from a practice day, to a race, drift event, etc.

Calm down folks.  Like Nick said, "significant public grass-roots emotional support.  " doesn't pay the bills.  Go touch the grass, or in this case, asphalt.  I am pretty thankful I live within 30 minutes of HMP and it seems folks are getting out there one way or the other.  Maybe in time, the demand for a track like HMP will exceed the availability of HMP warranting another facility somewhere.  The fact that when I went to the last couple races at TMS and it was empty too, again, more car folks need to go touch grass/asphalt.  TMS would 100% be open to hosting some stuff on the front straight, if the demand was there.  There is also the track in Tulsa that is essentially CC speedway that is only used for drifting and the track in Monroe, LA just sitting there ready to go, but nobody to race there.

But if you're not helping exceed demand, don't ask for more supply.

Also to be fair, the costs have gotten absolutely out of control and the ratio of cost/avg houshold income has gotten very bad with nothing being done about cost causing it to be self-prohibitive to race.  Folks keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.  

Edited December 27, 2024 by MikePeters95

[Radical]

9 hours ago, MikePeters95 said:

Oh boy, this again.

I'd like everyone suggesting an asphalt track get built to post one single bit of evidence that they've attended one of the 20+ uses of the oval at HMP this year, from a practice day, to a race, drift event, etc.

Calm down folks.  Like Nick said, "significant public grass-roots emotional support.  " doesn't pay the bills.  Go touch the grass, or in this case, asphalt.  I am pretty thankful I live within 30 minutes of HMP and it seems folks are getting out there one way or the other.  Maybe in time, the demand for a track like HMP will exceed the availability of HMP warranting another facility somewhere.  The fact that when I went to the last couple races at TMS and it was empty too, again, more car folks need to go touch grass/asphalt.  TMS would 100% be open to hosting some stuff on the front straight, if the demand was there.  There is also the track in Tulsa that is essentially CC speedway that is only used for drifting and the track in Monroe, LA just sitting there ready to go, but nobody to race there.

But if you're not helping exceed demand, don't ask for more supply.

Also to be fair, the costs have gotten absolutely out of control and the ratio of cost/avg houshold income has gotten very bad with nothing being done about cost causing it to be self-prohibitive to race.  Folks keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.  

Amen!!!

[RodneyRodriguez]

Ron, I love your post. This COTA thing would do well, but to your point, outside tours and series would make it happen. 

[24nomo]

13 hours ago, MikePeters95 said:

Oh boy, this again.

I'd like everyone suggesting an asphalt track get built to post one single bit of evidence that they've attended one of the 20+ uses of the oval at HMP this year, from a practice day, to a race, drift event, etc.

Calm down folks.  Like Nick said, "significant public grass-roots emotional support.  " doesn't pay the bills.  Go touch the grass, or in this case, asphalt.  I am pretty thankful I live within 30 minutes of HMP and it seems folks are getting out there one way or the other.  Maybe in time, the demand for a track like HMP will exceed the availability of HMP warranting another facility somewhere.  The fact that when I went to the last couple races at TMS and it was empty too, again, more car folks need to go touch grass/asphalt.  TMS would 100% be open to hosting some stuff on the front straight, if the demand was there.  There is also the track in Tulsa that is essentially CC speedway that is only used for drifting and the track in Monroe, LA just sitting there ready to go, but nobody to race there.

But if you're not helping exceed demand, don't ask for more supply.

Also to be fair, the costs have gotten absolutely out of control and the ratio of cost/avg houshold income has gotten very bad with nothing being done about cost causing it to be self-prohibitive to race.  Folks keep doing the same thing expecting a different result.  

The cost to race has always been expensive.  Houston is the 4th most populated city and money is not the problem.  People will attend the Super Late Model/Pro Late model races and even Late Model, Like the cars tour.     Money doesnt seem to slow them down.   We have had a culture shift, back in the 2000's, people did what they had to do to show up and race.   Now people think someone should give them money to race.   Thats it, carry on 

[RodneyRodriguez]

24 you are correct, it still baffles me here how we have many wanting new pavement tracks even when the one we have lacks cars and fans yer crews and fans will still drive over 500 miles to consume pavement racing but can't seem to get to Houston once a month. 

[ron.brown11]

On 12/28/2024 at 7:02 PM, RodneyRodriguez said:

24 you are correct, it still baffles me here how we have many wanting new pavement tracks even when the one we have lacks cars and fans yer crews and fans will still drive over 500 miles to consume pavement racing but can't seem to get to Houston once a month. 

I think that the answer to your question Rodney, is answered in HMS' race results from Nov. There were 5 classes running, and only the Legacy division had more than 10 cars (14). The Eco Stocks had 10, and the HMP Stocks had 6. Both the Outlaws and Pro Mods had 7 cars. In Oct they hosted 4 classes, with only half of them able to attract over 10 cars. In Sept, only the Legends (11) & Legacy (14) got over 10 cars. The other 3 classes, Eco Stocks got 9 cars. The Outlaws and Pro Modifieds had 6 each. As a racer & fan of racing, it's hard to watch that few of cars to run mains of more than a few laps without getting bored. That's not a show that will draw a crowd. 

These are numbers that appear to be consistent across most of last season. With those numbers, and a lack of any supers or LMSC classes, yeah, people will drive 300+ miles to somewhere else to see racing. I think that I've stated on here numerous times, I love HMS. I'd love to see HMS flourish, and maybe it will soon. I truly hope so. But fans won't stay for long, if they're not entertained. There's way too many other places to spend their limited money on. I posted on this site a couple of months ago on Hickory Speedway. They have car counts that look a lot like HMS', and they have LMSCs. The stands are rarely over 20-25% filled. They run 30 & 40 lap features, depending on which class is on the track. After 2-3 laps, there is usually only a couple of cars actually battling for a position. This is in the heart of stock car racing. 

If 24nomo is correct, and Houston is a money pit, why aren't there more cars in any class at HMP? I would think that racers would be banging on the corporate doors so hard, that they would let them in, just the stop the banging. I can tell you that I didn't know how to write a sponsor proposal, but was able to go online to figure it out, and that was 25 years ago. I'm sure that there are many more people, trying to sell templates to do the same, but probably even better than what I found. Plus, Houston is an oil town. So either the racers are being lazy or afraid to ask for funding, or companies don't see how they can see any ROI on their cash investment. I don't think that any oil company would be willing to sponsor a Sat racer anymore.

But, I would bet that a company that works in oil company servicing might. They might still see the value in sponsoring a race car that consumes oil company products. Car dealerships might also, but would probably expect that you race a brand of car that they are selling. So a Toyota, Chevy & Ford dealership could work with the late models/trucks. With the compact stuff, nearly all of the manufacturers are in play. Anybody that owns a fuel/oil transport/supply company could also work. Try and find companies that either own a chain of stores/restaurants, or own a franchise of the same.

But here's the thing about approaching these entities, they expect more, sometimes much more than just putting their name on a car. They're probably going to want you to do functions with them, like company parties or picnics etc. They may want you to do autograph sessions, at one or more of their locations. Today, you really need to give them a lot, to get them to spend their advertising $$ with you. Hero cards with more than the driver's info, they want their names on there too. Here's a good rule of thumb about sponsorship money. Expect the spend 25 to 35% of that sponsorship money on that company. Take them to the races, print hero cards, have that company's name on there, and make sure that they have a bunch of them to hand out, do personal appearances at some company functions etc. I've seen several businesses that were once heavily involved in supporting racing/race teams, leave because they felt either cheated or received little ROI. I also did deals with some of my sponsors, that allowed them to make monthly payments. In Tucson, our season was from March to Nov. So let's say that I wanted 9k from that sponsor, they could write a check for $1000. on the first of each month. That was more tolerable for them. I was a small business, and I could write that check a lot easier than a $9k check. Have a written proposal in duplicate, and get signatures. You may need to re-write the proposal if there's something that they want in there that isn't.That's a contract that should contain their obligations to you, and you to them. That's a binding contract for you both, so that both are protected.  

You have to get creative. As I owned an insurance agency, I did contracts with home restoration, body shops & glass shops. My agreement with all of them were done like this. My obligation to them was to get them referrals for their service. Not that they would get all of those jobs, just the referrals, because the customer gets to choose who they want to fix what's broken. I kept a logbook of every referral, and once a month I would either call or go in person, to review those referrals. That gave them a monthly understanding of what their ROI was. That's pretty big to them, and it makes getting them to re-up for the next season a lot easier. But I told every sponsor that I approached one very important thing. No matter what, my clients were the most important part of the equation. Racing was my pleasure, but my clients were my livelihood. I only lost 1 sponsor over the last 6-7 seasons, and it was not from anything that I did wrong. They signed a big contract, to support the AZ Diamondbacks triple AAA farm team in Tucson. They over extended themselves after 2 seasons, and nearly bankrupted the company. They actually approached me a year after they got their finances straightened out. But I was finalizing the sale of our agency, and moving back to TX.

So the easiest sponsor to service, is the ones that are close to where you live and race.  It's a harder sale to get a company to sponsor you to race at HMP, if they are in SA. They are going to expect you to still do a lot of the things listed above, no matter where you live or where they are located. I had a detail shop that cleaned both of our personal vehicles washed & waxed weekly. I had a local Autozone store that sponsored me for a couple of years. There wasn't a lot of parts that they could supply me, but I got some parts, and all my oil change needs (8 quarts of racing oil & a filter each week), car polish, and sometimes a few parts for my street vehicle. Neither paid me a dime, but I saved money with what they did for me. That allowed me to have more cash for racing. Autozone ended when they became the title sponsor for NASCAR's Southwest Tour series.

Like I said above, you have to be creative, and know that you will get a lot more no's than yes'. But sometimes even the no's can be helpful. Maybe they aren't able to sponsor right now financially, but you can ask them if they know someone that might. I got a couple like that. That's a question you can even ask family or friends, do they know anybody that might? Personal referrals always make approaching someone you don't know easier. With our agency clients, we'd always tell them that if they were happy with how we took care of the insurance needs, please tell their family and friends, if not tell us so that we can fix it. On any given month, we consistently saw between 30-35% of our new business was from referrals. That was business that we didn't have to market for. I won't say free money, because we still worked hard for those new customers, but it sure made my job easier. That's what you will have to do with a sponsor, work hard. 

The last thing I will say is this. NEVER use the word sponsorship to a sponsor. I've used it numerous times here, because it's a word that most people understand. You don't want a sponsor, you want a marketing partner. Businesses look at the word sponsor, as you asking them to pay for your dreams. They aren't interested in paying for your dreams. Someone that they can market with, that can help them raise their bottomline, that will at least have their attention. Now it's up to you to close the deal. And never be afraid to ask for that partnership, once you have explained "what's in it for them". They already know what's in it for you. It's hard work, but if you do what you say you will in the agreement, even if you aren't winning every week, they will see their ROI, and probably stick around for more than a season or two. It worked for me, and I'm no genius..

[MikePeters95]

Again, anyone that typed more than 100 words in a response, after asking for an additional facility when you're not supporting the one that already exists, claiming the drivers are lazy etc (lmao) with evidence you've been to one race at Houston Motorsports Park.  I'm not sure what HMS is that some of you are referencing.

Supply and demand.  The current supply far exceeds demands.  Poor dead horse continues to be beaten.

[24nomo]

How is that current supply of Late/Pro/Super lates?    People do not go to watch the lower/entry level classes.    That is a good starting place for racers, but to draw fans & sponsors, you need the Late Models.  

[HiTech]

 .. 24   HMP IS STILL OPEN .. seems to me they are dong something right    

[ron.brown11]

On 1/1/2025 at 10:29 PM, MikePeters95 said:

Again, anyone that typed more than 100 words in a response, after asking for an additional facility when you're not supporting the one that already exists, claiming the drivers are lazy etc (lmao) with evidence you've been to one race at Houston Motorsports Park.  I'm not sure what HMS is that some of you are referencing.

Supply and demand.  The current supply far exceeds demands.  Poor dead horse continues to be beaten.

Let's see there Mike, if HMS is doing so great, why would anyone not want to go there? For me that's a 400 mile round trip, just to watch Legend & Legacy fields with a half of a good car count. Then let's spice that up with 6-7 trucks or outlaws. Then with all of the complaining, of how many rental drivers are destroying what few trucks that show up, you have less that 1/4 of a field to race. And the last thing is actually going to Houston for those races. Yeah that's not happening for me. I'll go there if they have a lot more cars, and some form of a LMSC or Pro Late Model. That's for your first paragraph.

Now let's address the lazy issue you seem to be upset about. For the record, the lazy comment is aimed toward drivers/owner not busting their ass to secure sponsor money. Remember, we've been told on here that Houston has dumptruck loads of cash to hand out to sponsor race cars. So either they are lazy for not looking or asking, or there simply isn't that much sponsor money available.

So I guess you're saying that the race track and race cars is your supply side of the equation, and the demand is the lack of butts in the seats. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that point. But I'm going off what you said, and how I interpret it. So in HMS you have a beautiful track, but not a good field for anything other than mainly beginner classes. I expect better than that if I'm driving to Houston. And that's another question, how many people that come from out of town, actually want to go to Houston, the city not the track? Maybe the track location isn't ideal now as it used to be.

Nearly 3/4 of the post I did above, was to try and help show people ways to look for a sponsor money. That was done so some needy driver may not know how to start. Sorry that it was too many words for to to comprehend, or just didn't want to understand. But most of the post was trying to be beneficial for others. 

You said in your post dated Dec 26th (above this post), that until many more fans attend HMS, and then they should look at TMS, Tulsa, and Monroe. So which side of the horse are you beating?, the supply or the demand side when suggesting these 3 other sites So, if HMS is still the bigger size (the supply), and until the demand (people) starts needing more race tracks, is incredibly flawed. Because it still comes back to the same issue. If people (the demand portion of this equation), don't like the product (the racing), none of the equation matters. It will fail. 

So hey, I'll eliminate your need to question any needs about beating a dead horse on here. When I feel the need to "touch the grass or asphalt", I'll just go outside and scratch that itch. Then I will go inside, fire up my FloRacing site, and there I can see race tracks that do actually have good fields. So build a track, or don't build a rack here in TX. I just don't give a shit anymore. But one located at COTA could change my mind. Naw, I don't want to have to build a glue factory..

[24nomo]

20 hours ago, HiTech said:

 .. 24   HMP IS STILL OPEN .. seems to me they are dong something right    

Is having less than a hundred people in the stands sustainable?  I doubt the back gate covers the expenses.  But, if they are happy, that is great.

[HiTech]

 DANG I GOT two after my throat this time around LOL ... im  batting a thousand ...its not just one reason or two reasons or three reasons why texas lost so many tracks . and not  one  of us can come up with a solution ... houston maynot have big classes .but they are still running still trying    i give them  an /A .. OF ALL THE CARS  we use to race  .we have one now  and barely can afford to  put  it on the track  MUCH LESS go to another track  just up the road ... we use to race three min and four  at times ../..  but one  denominating  factor  in every  dirrection  we want to go ... ... COST .going out to the junk yard and  picking up a car    is over .. . parked next to another racer  at our last race   . his motor  started  at  11 grand .  358 .. .  he had 18 shocks  all costing 500 apiece .. and  this is on stock chassis car... hard to compete with that .,  my son sold everything  except the 5 grand motor . that motor is  not up to par  with whats running now . its a boat anchor, a  very good  one freshend up two yeats ago  and only two races on it .  and  now wrapped up  in case i find someting to put it in .. . no one is going to give us even half what we have in it .. so  it sits ..  . the reason  he sold out .. COST .. 

Edited January 5 by HiTech

[RodneyRodriguez]

lol my thoughts to recap. HMS cannot sustain any type of class with what is available. BUTT (and I mean big ass) a PLM or SLM event there would be great and not reliant on local racers.  Yes, this would be expensive but I truly think one of these gentlemen controlling those divisions could be persuaded to tap the Texas keg and as that seems to work the others would copy but this is just a big event sort of thought utilizing that Houston market. Remember there is 0 short-track pavement activity in DFW, SA/Austin, and hell Oklahoma/Louisiana since the rev is going dirt. That's a whole different story, that place could be dominant with pavement but whatever. 

 

For regular HMS events, lean on these legends, legacies they will show up. Look at Nashville.  4-cylinder is great also as the "entry" that may entice someone to jump in.  But 2-3 cars lapping the field hurts that. 

[arob]

OK

 

Edited January 5 by arob