what happened to this rule.

[Danielsen Motorsports]

I guess the cost of the cars cant be STS's fault since they are only doing what everyone else is doing. Well I guess thats why they have the E mods now.

[arob]

I bet his,and I don't know who he is, isn't the only one that is in that ballpark.Could be the reason the Limiteds car count is 1/2 of what it used to be.

[top_shelf_12]

There's at least 5 regulars from last year that aren't running this year (don't read anything negative into that, just a statement of fact and they haven't run anywhere). That's 1/2 to 1/3 of any class so yes car counts are a little down but not critical. Last track I went to had 13 Limiteds and 15 Mods so STS is on par. Down for them but not bad overall. SOS has had tremendous growth this year and it's good to see but very few of their Limiteds run STS regularly so not a reason for concern. EMods have grown, Pures are pretty even maybe down a little but not too bad, LLM is going to hurt when the SA guys stop coming but can't blame them I'm sure travel expense alone is brutal. Even the Sport Compacts seem to be growing slowly and haven't seen Thumper there for a few races. Overall I think STS is in a pretty good place. It is different from the past few years but that was expected. Different isn't bad and I think everyone that has been to or raced STS knows how good it can be. If it's not there, help them get there.

[BAB75]

I've got close to 30 I'm mine. It's gotten out of hand

[Bluebayouracing21]

I thought it was good racing

[thumper]

I understand about the cost of cars.In my backyard sits a complete modified,not a limited,that I invested over 20 grand in in a 10 year period.That was while using used,borrowed and financed parts.While it was the greatest thrill and I learned a ton,it was not feasible for me.That was when the modifieds were trying all kinds of things like wheelie poppers,lite weight 6 cyls and the like.Almost every week last weeks design was obsolete.When my motor blew,I parked it complete,MSD ignition,alcohol fuel system,harland sharp rockers,isky cam Victor jr,triple disc clutch and all as a reminde that a person should not race what he cannot afford to discard.Mine made it to podium finishes till the money ran out.

 

That was in 2002 and a time when the limited modifieds came along.The original modifieds were an inexpensive alternative to late models and made for the amature racer on a budget.Then the limiteds became that definition,a cost effective alternative to the expensive modifieds which became late models without fenders.Evolution again outpaced good intentions and now a 30 grand limited is not that rare.Problem is there are still lesser funded and experienced teams trying to compete in the LM class so things get in turmoil sometimes.Eventually the smaller teams will disappear and only the 30 grand experienced teams will be left and the accidents will lessen greatly.But will the Limited Modifieds also disappear from some tracks like the modifieds did?

 

Along comes the Eco Modified.A class started for the lesser funded,lesser experienced teams as an inexpensive alternative to the expensive Limited Modifieds.Like what happened to the original limiteds,some teams now are running both types of cars and possibly soon will be dominating the eco class like Bush does in trucks and Nationwide cars.Slowly people will ask for and receive more allowances in rules thinking they can keep up with more stuff.I see a pattern.

 

This thread is about trying to place a blame on evolution itself.If you dont want a scratch on your hi dollar car,advance to a higher level.That goes for any class.A local track will have local drivers and they will make mistakes.Help them get better,dont witch hunt them.Nobody builds a car just to tear it up.Know your competitors and dont hate them if they make a mistake.

 

Several have asked me why I dont build an eco mod now.Its simple.....I dont have anything to use so I would need everything and spare parts are a must for any car.But I look at it this way.

 

On race day I tow about 6 hours round trip,stay at the track late mainly so theres no traffic coming home.I watch a lot of good racing,visit with friends but my time on the track itself adds up to maybe half an hour.My biggest cost is fuel for my truck and I dont spend much time working on the race car.I get enough adreneline rush to last a little while.Whenever I get the urge to buy another big car I walk to my backyard and remember the countless hours and wasted money so that stops me.

 

Taking local racing too serious is what hurts.the sport the most.Make it fun and enjoy it.Were all family.

[top_shelf_12]

Very well said. I think the main point originally was the way rules are changing then seemingly not enforced while the poster was unaware they voted against the rule. Hopefully the air is clear and since you used the family analogy, who doesn't fight with their family members from time to time? As long as the love remains the family unit will survive.

[Remowilliams]

I understand the problem now

[southtexasfan]

OK my bad on the all involved rule. But ken dif state if the caution comes out somebody is going to the back. And yes 30,000 in a limited call express you will pay over 16,000 for a car minus motor and trans. Then another 10-12 grand on a motor. 1,800 for a trans so on and so fourth yeah you can get to 30 grand easy for a front running car

[southtexasfan]

And what I am saying is bad call's also hurt the track. Drivers get mad and leave. Fans get mad and leave. Driver's are not the only ones that keep the lights on as you make it seem. Why do you think the limited mods dropped off so bad. They were tired of getting tore up, bad economy so on and so fourth. So it takes everybody to make a track work. Fans, drivers and owners. So get off the driver soap box

[drew]

I know i may not have much of a foot to stand on here but as a lm owner..(not even a full blown at that) its not cheap...however..its my decision. The fact that some of us dont have the funds to have extra is noones fault but our own regardless of economy or whatever. It is what it is. The reason I havent made it back is because my rig broke down and is in for repairs and we havent finished rebuilding after the last wreck..Not going to point fingers but things happen...What we all need to understand is this....we cannot get mad over our decisons to spend what we spend, race what we race, fix what we tear up as a racing community and as individuals...I am not mad one bit about what happend to me...i had full intentions on running every race..was 3rd in points..but i have found out that i was losing speed..i wasnt able to catch those guys like i was before because parts have worn out..So..I used this is a motivation to step back, fix and update to get back the compeditive edge I know we have...Bad calls happen..in every sport....People get emotional in every sport...Fans get emotional in every sport.....So where is the balance? Its in each of us...We as drivers no matter where we are in points have lost our patience on the track....Fans have lost their desire to watch us lose our patience..Track officials have so much going on they must make calls based on their insight and thats because we have decided to drive like animals.....We need to get back to the brotherhood of racing...If you want to have a reason to really get upset over a bent fender, or an amature braking moment..Go spend 68k on a big car and go get man handled with those guys whose lively hood rely on winning everynight....otherwise...relax...there are too many variables to point out that has to be perfect for this to be perfect and noone is perfect...rules are rules..i dont like all involved..So we all decided we want the track to make the calls...we have to respect that and the sytem they use....If there is a bad call then there are ways to handle it without all the garbage. Unfortunatly there are too many fans out there to please them all...Need to find the balance......I have big asperations to run either a sprint car or full lm in the near future..what i learn now will only make me better and getting mad at every little thing to include cost is not going to help me at all.....So bring on the fender rubbing, the taking out of others intentionally, the fans booing, the bad calls byt the track...because its whats going to make me as a driver better in the future.......whew....since thats over......when are we bbqing?

[arob]

Well hopefully they go with if a yellow is thrown someone or more are going to the back.I understand it may mess up a good race or whatever but it would help the track crew by making it easier on them and make the calls consistant.If you can answer the question Why is there a yellow? everyone knows who is going.In the case of debris caution if you can identify where it came from that car goes to the back.If not carry on.Simple,consistant.

[NickHolt]

I've been watching this one closely and I appreciate the positive responses from many of you. The initial post looked an awful lot like it could have easily degenerate into a bitch session. So, thanks for keeping it positive and respectful.

 

Yes, every track make mistakes. And yes, those on the short end of a decision are pissed whether it was the right call or not. But getting on a public forum and raising hell is very damaging to the sport overall - and not just the particular track involved. If you have a gripe, take it to the track managment in person. You many not get the response you were hoping for, but at least you're not giving the sport another public black eye.

 

Nick

[toyotatim]

make it a claimer class, claim the whole car for $15,000.

[NickHolt]

Claimer rules are usually very short lived except at the very "lowest" racing division at any track.

 

The secret to keeping a "cheap" class cheap is refusing to budge on the rules that add expense to the class and outlawing "improvements" that the teams come up with to gain the advantage.

 

Nothing kills the intent of entry level classes quicker than allowing "improvements" and allowing folks to engineer around the intent of the class.

 

Nick

[arob]

I remember SAS had a claim rule in place . One Street class car got claimed I think twice.The next week sure enough he was claimed again before the races started.He was ready for it and claimed every car in the class and came with I heard around $15000 to do it.After an emergency meeting end of claim rule.

[top_shelf_12]

Or if you have one guy with the ability to claim everyone, seen that happen before too. I don't know the answer to the financial burden. Never really thought about mods being $30k b/c it's not my class or one I'm even considering at this point but makes sense. Are there less expensive ways? Sure. But can't fault those that can get the $16k chassis and top of the line parts. I saw an used Lim Mod motor for $10k so unless you're doing it, it is kinda hard to wrap your head around it. I agree with Nick on the entry level, "affordable" classes though. If you want to go faster and buy more expensive, higher quality stuff, move up a class or two, there's room for everyone at a racetrack.