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Limited Late Model


Taz Racing

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you can do something similar like the pro sedans do on asphalt. we run different motors and weight depends on cc's, left side depends on chassis. we have a sticker on the lower left window (you can put on lower drivers pillar) with all the information needed, that way when they go across the scales or tech they know what to look for.

 

BTW, I love watching the llm's run

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OK, let's see if this will work. There are 10 pages to the rules. I had to scan them and then zip the file. Now unzip and post.

The only changes is Owen eliminated the J bar length rule and the battery can be located anywhere except driver's compartment. Everything else stands.

Also, thanks to Ron for scanning the pages.

 

 

 

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This is probably going to require a "clarification" by the track, but the way I interpret it and the way Jim explained it to me is:

1. If you run a 4412 or a 7448 you can weigh 2850lbs and can run any fuel.

2. If you run a vacuum secondary 650 cfm (a 3310) you can weigh 2850 and run any fuel.

3. If you weigh 3150 you can run any carb and run any fuel.

 

In other words, any carb and any fuel is legal as long as you meet the carb/fuel/weight combination.

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I'm going by a conversation I had with Jim in 2012. I was building a new car and wanted to push the envelope but be sure it was totally legal. I had questions about the tube front clip rule, the rear suspension rule and the carb/fuel rule. What I stated above is what he told me, and if you think about it, it's the only way it's logical. If you equate a 4412 with a 3310 then what difference does the fuel make? If you go bigger than a 3310 (650), the larger carbs have the potential to make more HP because of the flow rates and not because of the type of fuel. If the fuel was the deciding factor then you would also outlaw certain octanes of racing fuel. As I stated before, "As far as gas vs. alcohol, there's very little performance difference in an engine with less than 11:1 compression. The biggest advantage of alcohol in low compression engines is it's easier to keep them cool in TX summers."

 

We're probably going to have to all come to an agreement on this so there's no gray area. Otherwise we're an outlaw class. And if that's the case, that's OK too, but I'd prefer to see this clarification added:

1. If you run a 4412 or a 7448 minimum weight is 2850lbs and can run any fuel.
2. If you run a vacuum secondary 3310 (650 cfm) minimum weight is 2850lbs and can run any fuel.
3. If you run any other carb, minimum weight is 3150lbs and can run any fuel.

 

But I also agree with cblgdc, "Let's all come race with good sportsmanship in mind."

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Hray is correct. the fuel doesnt matter as much as the size..so if you run alcohol.. The rule states aclcohol..4412 only...2850lbs. 3150 any carb any fuel. 650 vac sec..2850..its not rocket science and i think we need to enforce what this rule says....I know i wont ever run anything to be heavier than what i am now so im keeping what little i have and will second to keep these rules like they are. Lets go race..everyone be legal..and noone will have any worries.....

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First off....Has anyone talked to Owen?

What Jim said 2 years ago....well.....

 

 

I think this class is expensive enough already and needs ways to promote growth. I have been told there are better timing curves and also as already stated cooler in summer with alky. If so, run a 4412. Is making changes gonna help the class?

 

I say keep what we have...Or hell i'm all for everyone on a 2bbl....but then the guy who doesn't have one has to buy one....these rules encompass a lot of different cars.....why change?

 

my 2 cents

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I know I chimed in alittle late, but the carb rules are not clear at all. It says that you may not alter a two barrel in any way shape or form except jets and powervalve. That would make it impossible to run alcohol because almost every part of the carb has to be modified in order to run alcohol. I agree that we should follow the rules as close as possible, but when the rules are unclear it becomes difficult to know what is right and wrong...I personally want to see the class grow. Spending lots of money and making people mad is not the way to do it. I think we have the nicest guys in our class compared to the other classes fighting on the track and in the pits. We all get along pretty good i think. I say leave the rules alone and let the heavier cars run a bigger carb if they want. I believe it is harder to drive with all that power at STS. The track is smaller and slick most of the time. By the way 3310 Holley is a 750 cfm.

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.............. By the way 3310 Holley is a 750 cfm.

Not necessarily. It's a 650, 750, 800 or 820 depending on the dash #. The primaries remain relatively the same (small, about the same as a 350 2 barrell) but the secondaries are progressively larger depending on dash #. And obviously the big difference over other carbs is there is only 1 accellerator pump and the secondaries are opened by vacuum and not mechanically. That's why a 3310 650cfm is considered to be equivalent to a 4412 500cfm. In fact, the 4412 has better throttle response than a 3310.

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Not to get into a big arguement over carb sizes, just trying to set the record straight... 3310 is a 750cfm or with the addition of a rear metering block it is a 780cfm. Unless Holley is wrong on their numbering system the -1,2,3 etc is the updated version almost like a year model that they were produced. I have a large inventory of Holleys and have looked at every 3310 that I have. All of the front and rear butterflies are #172 which means they are the same venturi size and thus the same CFM rating. Again I am only trying to set the record straight and did some homework to make sure I was correct I checked the Holley website. This is what I was talking about previously on the rules and how they are unclear. I think a little better wording is all we need to clear them up. I did run a large double pumper on my car last year and I did run Alcohol in it, my car weighed 3220# without me in it. The only reason that I ran alcohol was because I could not keep the motor cool, maybe my radiator was crap I dont know, but the alcohol was used up so fast that the rear end bacame light by the end of the race. I felt that if I was running Gas it would have helped toward the end of the race to keep the rear tires planted a little better. This year I have a newer car that isnt quite as heavy and have already built my new 2 barrel to stay with the rules. I felt my car was good even as heavy as it was, but not a first place car, which is what everybody strives for. I think if we can get more cars and have a class that can all be capable of winning on any night that would be really awesome. My point being if you have a car with leaf springs or is heavy it may not be able to win. I have seen some very fast leaf spring cars though. So why not give some of those cars a little boost and keep the class somewhat even. I also realize that we have some drivers that are better than others too I didnt forget that. Anyway I would just like to see the class get bigger and better as everyone does.

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