Jason Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Its not that i'm bad mouthing the people with the series either. I like the people with the series. They are nice people and have fun. I just want to see these tracks prosper and the tracks come first before a touring series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast18 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I was a little dissapointed with the LM car count but the race itself more than made up it ! I'm sure if Owen puts this same race on next year there will be a huge car count in the LM class. There certainly was plenty of streets and bombers and ...WOW !...what great racin' ( I would have liked to make the street race) . My wife Kim and I would like to thanks Owen again for a great weekend of races and we will be back with TSRS and my street stock next year. Mickey McKim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTR73 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 i think the 4 probably only broke even with the $4,000 oh well i hope he had fun doin it Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Definitive Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Make these end of year,big money events a tradition.They will plan for it.They will be there.p.s. so will the fans then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I wonder if it would do any good to schedule a big race in CC BEFORE Oktoberfast in SA. Obviously, it is less expensive to run Corpus than SA and you can hit things here and keep going. Look at the "winners" car after the race. It was tore up, but still ran fast as did the 53 car. I'm not trying to take anything away from Breiten, but he was fortunate to win given the circumstances. You hit something in SA in a Late Model, the car is almost guaranteed to be trashed. You can run over and through everything here and still win the race. It's done almost on a weekly basis here . There's no such thing as a soft wreck in SA. With a $4000 payout before SA, I think that the car count would be much higher here and could possibly increase car count in SA depending on who wins here. Just a thought. Also, I can respect the fact that some people couldn't afford the trip because otherwise, we would all be in a Late Model or a racecar for that matter. Remember, we don't have a weekly Late Model series thus, all the Late Models here have run an expensive touring series all year long (with the exception of Joey Heineman, Steve Whitaker, and Doc Godfrey and we know about those cars, borrowed and never knew existed to cars that haven't run in years). All of the other Late Models were TSRS registered cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 23, 41, and 79 are SAS cars. 79 won a TSRS race but got 0 points towards TSRS. Have no idea on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie49 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Jason, You seem to think that the racers are here to supply revenue for track owners and entertainment to the fans. Well your wrong. They race because they like or love to race. In order to successfully do it and make it easier, it helps to be there for the fans and to support the tracks, but your perspective is backwards. Its kind of like saying that businesses owe people a job and that's why you have businesses. As for those who say they race for the money, not love of the sport, well that's ridiculous. Nobody at the local level is racing for the money, and if they say they are they are either fooling theirself or think they are fooling us. They race because they want to be racers. As to your constant bashing of TSRS, I think that right now they are the best chance the late model class has at remaining viable. The ROMCO series is great but expensive. The weekly series are getting too expensive to run for a great many teams. I have heard from many different people that the reason they like the touring series in general and TSRS in particular is that they can race at a decently high level of competition, and by racing fewer times a year it leaves more time for family and a real life. It also means that they can afford to make a higher percentage of races over the course of the year. It seems to me that using your own logic, you shouldn't be bashing TSRS and the others all the time, you should be bashing your local racers. Why doesn't CCMS have a latemodel class. I would love to see THR and SAS run a pure stock class, a limited modified class, a charger class and leave the late models to the traveling series. Late models aren't what they were 20 years ago. They are a more state of the art and expensive car, and to ask 20 local racers at multiple locations all over the state to fork out $20-40K a year, year in and year out to race is a little much to ask. Bottom line these guys love to race, we love to argue about who is better, who cheats, who luched who, but when it comes to the business side of their racing, well its none of my business why they didn't go to your track, and its none of yours either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 You're right, I forgot about Horelka and Bendele. Both are track champions in the SA Late Model class. And from what Milton said over the PA, Horelka missed a lot of races this season due to a new baby in the family. Who was 79? ...Thinking... Oh yeah, Joe Aramendia. He raced a little of everything this year. He won the TSRS race at Oktoberfast but I guess he ran for no points, just money. He is very well off financially (obviously since he ran the Busch series and a couple of Truck races) but used to run SA Late Models as well. SAS only had about ten to twelve Late Models on a weekly basis, but it goes back to the point made about the expenses of running SAS. I didn't think we would get a big draw from SA LM, but those two are arguably the best they have (I'm excluding 79 from that group since he's been racing other places this season.) I still thought that there would be more than 15 LM here, but it was still a good show. Sorry to hear two of the top three were deemed illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krusty_rusty Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 the fact of the matter is, if people know about the race before the season starts they can budget their money accordingly to run an extra race and also if you want to blame TSRS they would probably also schedule to help their drivers make some of these races because, the better their drivers due the better it looks for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kosherkowboy Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 So the tracks kan survive, why dont they just charge the bench racers $500 to go watch from the stands, I am sure they would support their track every race and every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 that was pretty cool of ccms to still pay the $4000 even with a low lm car count............that is a good way to get more racers for next year, take care of the drivers................the thing i don't understand is jim you gave those totals and you figured 2nd place winnings, why would you bother racing if you didn't feel you could win............just a question, not a bash........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KELLY83 Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 He would have been coming home with money... pretty much promising a second place finish... THAT'S AWESOME! Why not go if it's paid for? The majority would have come home broke just like the majority of the racers at every track across the nation do every week. You always come home with less than ya went with. If you knew you could be in the money... why wouldn't you go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookie49 Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 How many racecars would actually show up if only the cars that "knew" they could win showed up. The vast majority of the cars that come are the ones that are hoping for top ten or top 5 finishes and that if some things go right they hope. They know that anything might happen. But as far as pulling out of their driveway headed to the track with confidence that they are going to be in the mix for the win, Nope, that's a small few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Well I personally wasn't meaning to point the finger at any one group, fact is there's enough lack of support to go around. I'm sorry some of you took it personal. I won't go off on TSRS like my young namesake did but, TSRS has the most cars to draw from than either SAS, THR or HMS, plus they raced on 8" tires/wheels with the biggest changes going to the SAS guys. So the TSRS and THR cars had the most to gain with least amount of changes and additional costs. Jim, not to pick on you, but since you threw out some numbers.... you need to let me be your travel agent. I could have saved ya around $150 just in motel rooms(Motel 6). $7.50/meal? Man you guys eat good, I didn't spend that much per day on food/sodas. LOL JP, again not picking on you either and I consider you a good friend, but what about your costs for TMS for only $1000 to win? And what about a road course transmission, road course shocks and a new chip for the ignition so the first time you miss a shift you don't leave parts laying around the infield for me to find during next years NA$CAR race? My point....you're putting out more money for less return. If racing were a "for profit" deal, everyone would be doing it. Very few weekly racers ever break even, week in, week out. I understand it's an expensive hobby. Been there, done that! But what if every racer took the stance, I'm going to lose money so I'm not racing? Are you insinuating that the track owners/promoters take a loss instead? That's why we have no more Big Shot races. If tracks can't afford the losses, they quit scheduling big money races and further down the road, races period. Saw several dirt tracks close their gates this year due to this. I'm going to guess between the three tracks and TSRS that there's around 70 +/- cars, which granted isn't that many to begin with. Now only 15 showed up, 12 if you discount Joey Heinaman's 1998 "$h1tb0x" as he called it, Steve Whitaker sr.'s full frame/leaf spring street stock w/late model skin and Greg Godfrey's antique piece. That's only 17% if my four years of math still works, hardly something a track owner/promoter expects. Kudos should go out to Owen for not cutting the purse, which he easily could have done. It just seems that every time a big money race comes along, excuses are being made on why NOT to race. Some tolerable, some rediculous. Like the one, "I'm not racing SAS, because I'm not giving Mike Sepich my money." Now I don't know this as a fact, but I'm guessing Mr. Sepich is a salaried employee of Mr. Carlson. So you're not hurting Mr. Sepich's pocketbook. The ones you're hurting are the two people you should be supporting. Mr. Carlson, who has the power to renew, or not renew his lease on the track for you to race on. Or worse yet, the lady that owns the place and gets a buck/head, the same person who has the power to decide if the track stays or becomes part of Toyota! Then where we all be? K-Mart parking lots? Or the ever popular, I might wreck my car or blow a motor. When I was involved, we took that chance every time we rolled the car off the trailer, big money race or weekly show. It didn't make any difference, and I doubt the car knows where it's at, either. Now I've talked to a couple older, wiser race veterans, who pointed out the economy itself could have been an issue. And for what it's worth, I'll take that into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HORSEPOWER Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Let's have purse like the Big Shot, but divide it with the support classes. I know these other big shows can grow to bigger purses, but it's a bad start if no cars show, have it on the schedule for next year and the teams will be better prepared, then there's no more excuses. I don't know how much notice was given before the Texas Challenge 125, but 27 cars showed, not bad. By the way where are these "Texas Asphalt Promoters"? San Antonio Speedway still needs a race in November, a place where the fans will show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Let's have purse like the Big Shot, but divide it with the support classes. I know these other big shows can grow to bigger purses, but it's a bad start if no cars show, have it on the schedule for next year and the teams will be better prepared, then there's no more excuses. I don't know how much notice was given before the Texas Challenge 125, but 27 cars showed, not bad. By the way where are these "Texas Asphalt Promoters"? San Antonio Speedway still needs a race in November, a place where the fans will show! Where does the track come up with the money to pay big purses if they have lost money all season? I'm sorry, but the solution to the local tracks' woes is not to pay big purses and hope that people will show up. We have proven that over and over again. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp17 Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Reb: Re-stating what I posted earlier, the TMS race had nothing to do with the #17 car missing the CC race. We intended to run both and bring some more of that Corpus Cash back home to H-town. Unforseen circumstances prevented it, however. Getting back to the TMS thing though, why are we spending a little extra time and money preparing our car to go road racing? Because it's going to be a blast, and that my friend is the reason that we do this. jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HORSEPOWER Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Nick, I was just refering to the Special Events or season ending events, with some sponsors putting up the money, just like the Texas Asphalt Promoters did for the Big Shot, or where ever that money came from. The local weekly racing is another story with different issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lane77 Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Reb racer & jason, and even The Greek. I have an honest question for you guys. How many hours a week do you have to work to earn $1500.00. Now how many of you plan your bills in advance (Make a budget) so you can pay them based on how much you earn. Now here is the bottom line..... So any of you have $1500.00 left over at the end of the month if you did not plan for it? You are correct when you look at the numbers... Yes it costs between $1000. -1600.00 for each Tsrs race, and yes it only pays $1000.00 to win. Even if you win every race you lose money. At the end of the season there is no money left to go race a Track that has not already been in the budget no matter how much it pays. Racing in TSRS is not a one race plan it is a season Budget. A good bit of the TSRS drivers are not wealthy , and have a normal job. These guys & gals just love to race. Most of these people are in debt up to their necks just keeping there car racing. SaS had a lateModel race near the end of the season , and it had a good turn out, also did Kyle ( TSRS) they had a good turn out as well. I think that Tsrs had a great year, and my hat is off the the drivers that made most of the races. I am proud of all the Late Models that raced this year. Bryan Lane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Nick, I was just refering to the Special Events or season ending events, with some sponsors putting up the money, just like the Texas Asphalt Promoters did for the Big Shot, or where ever that money came from. The local weekly racing is another story with different issues. Would you believe it if I told you that the last Big Shot lost five figures? Putting up great purses doesn't work if the money doesn't come in to cover those purses. I could promote a race that would fill the grandstands and pull 75 cars next spring. I know how to do it. But it would cost me more to promote it than I could hope to make even with full grandstands and a pit full of cars. Big purse events are not the answer. You speak of sponsors footing the bills. Well, I have news for you. Sponsors are not beating the pit gate down looking to sponsor local stock car races. The major local sponsors we have in Texas are racers at heart who happen to have successful businesses. I don't know of one major sponsor who feels they are getting a return on their investment except for the personal satisfaction they obtain from racing. Nick Holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The_Greek Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 im gonna say that after everything that has happened....that maybe CCMS made a mistake trying to promote a big latemodel race, for starters CC doesnt even have a local latemodel class, CCMS was gonna have to rely heavily on alot of out of towners to show up to race. i also want to add that TSRS had scheduled 3 straight races on 9-18, 9-25, and Oct 1-2, then Octoberfast on the 16th, thats 4 races in 5 weeks. thats extremely difficult to budget, add to that the big TMS road race the week after. so im not gonna bash the TSRS guys for not all showing up cause thats a brutal schedule. i will say this... CCMS stepped up to the plate and gave it their best shot, in the end i thought it was still a great weekend of racing, the 2 segment race and the invert was a CLASSIC. im not sure if CCMS will try this again next year, but as a racefan i sure do who hope so, and with a bigger and better turnout. if not a latemodel race maybe a huge modified race. we all know theres 100's of dirt and asphalt mods in the area. lastly, alot of racers werent able to show for what ever reasons to race, but i get the sense that not only didnt they show to race, but alot of them didnt even show just to watch, and thats sad also. as a racefan i usually travel to all the big shows..asphalt or dirt, whether its SAS, Pleasanton, Mc Allen, or even THR. we're all racefans its hard not being at the races on saturday nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HORSEPOWER Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Yes , I do believe it. There's no more Big Shot and no fans showed up to the 1st year, and a few hundred more the 2nd. I think you are the type of guy that can promote a big show and will get the cars and fill the stands, but I'm not sure how much you want to make. You're right, you might not break even the 1st or second time out, but if you are successful by getting close to breaking even and it becomes a yearly event, in the long run maybe there will be some kind of profit. Thanks to all of our local sponsors at our area tracks. I know Sponsors are not beating the pit gate down looking to sponsor local stock car races, if they were we wouldn't be having this discussion. If the big purse is not the answer, I think less cars would have showed at CC. Maybe 5 late models. I'm not sure what happened to Oktoberfast, but the 1st five years had over a 30 car average for the super late models, having guys coming from out of state and the purses were $5,000 or more, with several post race awards. The last three years, the purse is down and the car count has averaged 19, no out of stater's. If it's not the purse, it's the promoting, the fans were there. Were not talking $30,000 to first place, I said divide it up, it's been proven in the past with $5,000-$6,000 to win these guys still showed. We just need the right people running the show, and you've got my vote Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racechick Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 Wait a minute greek the THR race on the 25th wasn't scheduled til late in the season and it wasn't a points race therefore the guys that did race apparently did it for fun I know that the top five drivers didn't race that race just because it wasn't a points race! The TMS race is also not a points race its for these guys to enjoy. I know that a lot of them are excited to go race at TMS even if it is just the road course. Its a track for NASCAR, to me they would be excited to be there. But once again it is their choice. MaryAnn promoted this race to the TSRS guys as much as possible even if it wasn't in their budget some did make it out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboyracing7 Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 SAS did a big LM race earlier in the yera with not much time to prepare, I think CC should have leaned on the classes they run weekly, and made it a big SS race, they have like 20-30 weekly car at all 3 tracks, that and the bombers....could have made a great show for more purse, they dont often get a shot a a big purse race so it would have been a chance for the low budget teams to race for some big $$$$$$$$$. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmotorspeedway Posted November 3, 2004 Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 How about this, it is done and over with, lets move on. It is no ones fault the cars did not show up. It was a pretty good race, that is important! We learn from our mistakes and adjust as we go, it was dumb on my part to try and put this type of race on at CCMS since we had not had a good LM car count all year even in the ROMCO series. We feel CCMS can survive and grow with out LM and we will move forward with this concept. If nothing else came of this race I hope the racer and the fans realize we are trying to have fun with racing in Texas and we stick to our word. Thanks Owen Also Thanks to everyone that came to the TSCC. We appreciate your participation and hope you had some fun while in Corpus Christi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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