STAGGER Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 I could of just looked at the email address for Stagger. It is his son Jason Ray. lol No wonder they agree! Yes I am HRAY’s son, and very proud of it. But I am also part of our team, one that works hard on the car at the shop, and one that puts as much money as I can into the car. So if I have an opinion on something that saves me and my team time and money I will voice how I feel regardless of weather a relative, friend, or team member has the same views. One more thing I would like to see changed is the use of aluminum hubs. They cost less $$$ than a steel hub and they give you less unsprung weight. That’s hard to come by in racing, less $$$ and more speed. But that is just my opinion not a big deal. JASON RAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NO35KRACING Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 How about this Wayne in order to save HRAY and Jason some money why don't you just allow them to take the front fenders off their ROMCO car and run it! To save money, how about everyone just run whatever they have laying around in their garage! Why is team Ray worried about TAMS rules anyway, the way you guys talked in the past you would be in Busch or Cup by now, oh wait those seires have rules that you don't like and cost to much, maybe you should send NASCAR some suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted October 27, 2004 Report Share Posted October 27, 2004 On the surface, saying," Ask the racers...it's their money" seems logical but it's a lot like saying ," ask the junkie...". Self discipline is not the strong suit of either group! Racing goes in expense cycles. Racers want to add stuff that drives up the operating expenses (ironically, usually in the name of saving money). As the cost goes up, the car count goes down. Up pops a "limited" version of the class to increase participation. The latest "go round" of this has been happening for a year or so in dirt track mods. There is a version of this same thing being discussed on other threads on this board right now. It's happened before and it will happen again. Let the tracks or series owners make the rules. They will either profit or lose as a result of their decisions. Racer input is a good thing. I haven't seen too many cases where racer "control" was. I tell my guys, " You can always have your say, just not always your way." Just my opinion. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.j.&s.racing Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 jay wayne owns the series he has to make money at this. you only run like three races a year guys that run the whole year should have more input. dont take it personal. john henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 ???? I offered no input on the thread's topic "TAMS RULES, changes needed". My opinion was to let the tracks or series owners make the rules instead of letting racers spend themselves into extinction...again. If you own the series, you should have the right to manage the rules and competition in such a way as to get maximum return on your investment. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing would please me more than for the tracks and series owners to be flush with cash. I'm not sure "perfect attendence" is a factor in a discussion. It will get you a nice certificate in grade school, however. It looks like only about 22% of all the cars that were awarded points attempted at least 75% of the races. I would bet that's a major concern for WN. I've only been racing stuff for 30 years plus 3 races. I'm just relaying what I've seen, for what it's worth. I had a lot of fun building my car and trying to get it figured out. I had planned to race THR two more times than I did but they were rained out. Marc (19) and I come down from north of Dallas. I work weekends so everytime you see me at the racetrack, I've had to burn 2 vacation days. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatboyracing7 Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 I agree with Wayne having the final say but you have got to at least listen to your racers thoughts. I am not saying that the racers should rule the series but at least get a chance to vent and bring up so concerns to the series owner/owners and at least voice they're opinion on some issues that may help some teams out. I know it would not benefit everyone, Iknow it cost alot of $$$$ to convert over to a QC, but if and when you did you would now have a 9" and several sets of gears or complete pumpkins to sell to another race, possibly one getting started in the TAMS series and save him some coin as well. If TAMS was a weekly series at one track i could see ruling it out, but almost all touring series allow the QC rearends for ease of change on the teams. I recall one one race in 2003 the first time TAMS raced in Houston we changed gears 3 times at the track.....3 times swapping complete pumpkins and we borrowed the final pumpkin from a friend that had a gear we did not have to ge the car in the ball park. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc200mph Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Any change in rules cost money! Ok, I can run my 9 inch, but to be competitive, I would need a quickchange to fine tune my car. I am tyring to save this winter for a 2 bbl carb and speck engine just so I can get off the treaded tires to be more competitive with the top running teams. Then you change rules for a quick change? I just lost what I tried all winter to gain! You want more car count in the series? Are there any modifieds in Texas running quickchanges now? Or have you created rules that locks just TAMS Modifieds in? Input from car owers and drivers is good, but the finally say will be the series owner/promotor. If you let racers right the rules, everyone would write to benifit there pocket book. More money you can spend the more you want rule changes. Rule changes cost money. Just my little opinion, I respect everyone else's opinions too. With out some differences we would never learn from each other. Great job everyone, Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Marc, To a point, you are right, but I'm not saying change from 9" to QC. What I'm saying is allow both. Let's face it, there some very strong arguments for staying with a 9" (it's lighter and it takes less HP). The QC is mainly for convience. There is one other aspect of this that is being overlooked. Right now there are 5 - 6 TAMS cars for sale. If you're in the market for a car and you don't want one of those, you have to build. If you allow QC's you open up every car for sale on the East Coast and FL. If you've checked Race Car Trader or Whowon lately, you know that adds several more options. I'm dumbfounded that this suggestion always stirs so much controversy. This should not be rocket science. A QC is not more expensive than a 9". It's the same price until you start adding gears---then it's LESS expensive. If you already have a 9", then make the decision--sell the 9" and buy a QC or stick with the 9". You can make that decision based on performance or budget or whatever criteria you want to use. It's your choice!!!! If you're building a car you have the same option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennystone5k Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 this topic has come up in imca to. you might save a little, but how much are you going to loose, having these rearends and gears laying around. i think if you want to spend the money on this stuff than move up in class were they run this stuff. tams has very simple rules and it needs to stay like this. you know the saying if it aint broke don't fixit? i think tams is what asphalt racing needed in this area. changing rules will cost more money and it wont make you any faster, because the people that win will always win!!! on the purses, the track owners, promoters have got all of us by the balls!!! have you looked back in the day to see what the local tracks used to pay in the 60-70' it was more than we get now on a weekly show. i have a tams mod. but its sitting behind the shop crushed!!!! just my two cents, sorry. good luck to everyone!!! KENNY STONE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hray Posted October 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 i think if you want to spend the money on this stuff than move up in class were they run this stuff. Kenny, You're right-----you could always move UP to TSRS. You TSRS guys don't jump all over me, that was a joke (to prove a point)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Hray, I don't fear the quickchange. I've owned and driven both on several occasions. Your thoughts on it weighing more and consuming more power to turn are both true. They used to allow them in Busch cars and, SURPRISE, the LOWER dollar guys were the ones that had them! The big teams had a Tex 9 inch pumpkin with every ratio made on racks in the shops. That was their money advantage...they had plenty of gear choices and plenty of guys to change them. People think that they are super repairable and to a degree that's true but most of them are thinking about axle tubes only and you get some side bells mixed in there on solid wall contact. It's not just a "bolt in". On underslung clips, there is usually a crossbar that is under and just behind the pumpkin. That sometimes has to be modified to let the r/e drop enough to get the back off. Along the same lines , most low mounted "pavement car" fuel cells need to be relocated farther rearward for the same reason. I don't have really strong feelings on shocks other than to keep the "per crash" replacement cost down. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 TAMS and TSRS are about even in level. They also pay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Just an additional question (I don't know all the teams well enough to know what "combination" they run)...What was the highest finishing position in the year end totals for a treaded tire car? If it is fairly far down the list and the rules are changed to give purpose built pavement cars two additional advantages(the thread is about QC and fancy shocks so far) that don't translate back to the dirt sanctions, won't "crossover" car count be even worse? Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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