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tsrs rules for 2005 season


REBELRACER

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Given all of the rules concessions that were made the last several races I posed this same question to Jack a couple weeks ago. He reminded me that Mary Ann was very clear on the 10" tire rule earlier this season. He did not feel like any significant changes were merited either so I would be surprised if the rules differed for 2005. Interesting question though. With a clean sheet of paper would you change anything? jp

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I think they should allow soaking tires becuase you could increase the life of your tires and maybe get more than one race out of a set.

 

go to a gear or belt drive on the motor instead of a damn TIMING CHAIN

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i was just curious if the rules on the website were the rules for next season also, was thinking of building a car and didn't want to get too far and then have to make a bunch of changes [edited out by Nick Holt. 10/26/04] ......not a bash on anyone just curious about the rules...............

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Here is my top 10 list....

 

1. Mini-clutch

2. Brakes - Multi piston

3. Minimum weight - 2900 total

4. Intake - Any but no work allowed

5. Shocks - steel body only

6. Brand tires & implement a purchase Limit (10 at race 1 & 1 per race after that)

7. Wheel Base - 105 (+weight)

8. Springs - Coil Over (+weight)

9. No Friday practice / 7 day test ban

10. All races 100 laps; first 75 yellows count & last 25 they don't

 

Just my .02...

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Then we'll just call it Romco Jr. This class started out to be a traveling limited late model class.

The CCMS Super Streets on the Hoosier 970's are turning 15.3-15.5's, and they are just shitboxes (stock bodies, upper a-arms,sway bars, stock mount shocks, no weight jacks). Give me f-53's and we could turn 15.0's and would have qualified in the middle of the pack at the last TSRS race at Corpus.

I guess my question is where is this class going, or is it going anywhere? JMO

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The last time TSRS ran in Corpus there was a car that ran...I thought it was a Super Street (not sure). I do remember it was slow and ran in the back. The TSRS rules were made to keep racing in this series competitive and affordable. I doubt if there will be any significant changes made to the rules. TSRS official Mickey McKim

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Thank you, HoustonLM04, for your ideas.

 

My ideas are:

 

1) Each car draws for starting position. It makes no sense to have time trials and then throw a pair of dice.

 

2) Allow the safer-built perimeter chassis a left side percentage of 56%. Encourage the perimeter chassis, but don't penalize it.

 

3) Drop the minimum weight to 3050# BEFORE the race. Dropping the weight any further keeps the safer perimeter chassis from competing.

 

4) For fabricated clone of stock front clip, don't allow over 50% rear weight.

 

5) Go to the NASCAR legal version of the Performer intake. Effectively, this limits RPM to 7000 or 7100 max which save motors. It only hurts the last half of the straight-away performance.

 

6) Have a weight break for reduced track width. This might allow a 105 wb car with coilovers to compensate without becoming a non-competitive lead-sled. For example, a 64.5" track width car would cancel weight penalties for 105 wb and coilovers.

 

7) Increase the purse so that those racers finishing 5th thru 10th get more than just their entry fee returned.

 

===

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Here are the things in Brad’s list that I would like to see.

 

1. Mini-clutch

5. Shocks - steel body only

6. Brand tires & implement a purchase Limit (10 at race 1 & 1 per race after that)

7. Wheel Base - 105 (+weight)

9. No Friday practice / 7 day test ban

10. All races 100 laps; first 75 yellows count & last 25 they don't

 

Here is the one thing that I would add.

 

The 10% rule for lapped cars.

 

These are my views and not Tommy's or Teresa's,

Tommy agrees with most of these issues but not all of them.

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I agree with Pacecars additions. But unfortunately I haven't seen where the TSRS tech people or some of the racers understand how the tube front clips pacecar is talking about are constructed. I thing they believe that they ultralight like a superlatemodel. If they think this they are wrong. They are alot heavier and basically have the camaro geometry, and also can be purchased for alot less than the lefthander/port city modified/lightned stock clips. As has been shown at SA the TSRS cars run right with the SAS latemodels or maybe are a little faster in some cases since the TSRS cars have a little lower cg with the way they are constructed.

 

As for shrimps remark about another ROMCO series. I believe if some of the suggestions are followed and they put 10" tires on these cars that even with the heavier weight and less horsepower you would see alot of the lesser funded ROMCO teams start running TSRS and TSRS with become the premier touring series in TEXAS. With that would be inscreased car count, bigger fan following, more money for larger purses and closer racing. Who says a touring car has to way 2900lbs and have 550hp. Fit the racing to the regional economy not what a few teams can afford.

 

In most cases the fans do not have stop watches, if you tell them it is a latemodel and the cars look like one and the drivers put on a professional show then they are what they say they are.

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Fit the racing to the regional economy not what a few teams can afford.

 

In most cases the fans do not have stop watches, if you tell them it is a latemodel and the cars look like one and the drivers put on a professional show then they are what they say they are.

I agree that there needs to be series for what many can afford. If they did allow the smaller wheelbase cars the older Camaro clip cars will eventually die off.

 

I disagree that fans can't tell the diffence. Maybe your first timers can't. You can tell a difference between the two. Many of the ROMCO cars are alot faster and sound different. When your sitting in the stands you can tell.

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sounds to me like people that arent even running the series want to change the rules to accomodate their cars and penalize the people who have been running the series since day one. i myself wouldnt mind the mini clutch but that's because we already have one but i sure hope mary ann doesnt get too crazy and start making a lot of rules changes which i'm pretty sure she won't.

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rpfan you are right about all changes costing money, if there are any changes i would like to see perimeter chassis run 56% left side weight to encourage racers to run a safer chassis V offset chassis, it will only be a matter of time before someone gets hurt and if you can prevent or prolong someone from getting hurt that would only be better for the drivers another rule change would be to allow for fuel top off at the end of a race. I dont see any advantage with allowing this, it would save lots of time in the shop guessing how much fuel will be used and then guess how much more lead to add to be sure weight will pass tech and then guess again if the front to rear weight % will pass tech at the end of the race, then I think all races should be 75 laps yellows dont count, one more thing laped cars or cars that are not running reasonable times compared to the top 85% of cars on the track should be taken off the track (NASCAR has a similar rule) I have seen to many wrecks because of slow laped cars, they don't only cause yellows under green but cause multiple yellow on restart because of the initial yellow.

Other than these small changes motor rules are good, 8 inch tires are good mini clutches should be allowed but this change would cost a lot of $$ because some miniclutch set up are realy up there if you know what I mean so in this case I say leave the clutch rule as is, steel body shocks only is a good rule change but a lot of racers have to much invested in their shocks so leave that as is one more thing why is there a rule about front to rear weight % if you ask me I think there should be no rule concerning front to rear weight, i think every car should be able to move enough lead around to make more rear weight and run what they want. In all, these changes would not cost any $$ to any racer in the TSRS, these changes would anly make TSRS easier and safer for the drivers.

 

the only rule that should be changed and unfortunatly cost racers money should be timing chains, belts or gears should be allowed, I have broken a motor because of a bad timming chain and I know of 2 other racers that have had the same happen to them, sure bets or gears cost more but are a lot more reliable and save more motors and of course save more $$, TSRS motors are making to much horse power to stay with chains.

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i have to agree with the timing chain deal also we have lost 2 motors this year due to these crappy chains. and while we were changing oil in allens motor after last race we found a roller off the timing chain so we had to pull motor and put another chain on. it will require a large initial investment for the belt drive but it sure would have saved a lot of money for us this year.

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I agree with Lloyd and others about a gear drive, and this applies to any series whose rules want a chain. If you allow nothing more than a Pete Jackson set-up, you will still save a bunch of motors, and as I recall, a PJ set-up is only about $50 over a good hexadjust chain.

 

Doesn't make any sense to tell racers that the chain is cheaper and will save them money when they got a motor on the stand and all the valves are bent and the pistons have creases in them. That $50 dollar savings won't buy the gaskets they'll go through rebuilding the engine.

 

We have a PJ at the shop that has been in various motors for 20 years, and is still in good shape. Show me a chain that will give you that kind of life.

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Excellent discussion. My .02 would be to allow 105” cars with a 50 lb. weight penalty in `05 and 25 lbs. or no penalty in `06. 2x4 fab clips get 15 lbs a side of removable and verifiable lead attached to the frame rails between the lower control arm mounts. I don’t have a problem with 56% to the perimeter cars but of course I have one. Straight rail cars do have a cgh advantage though. I do think the cars need to be lighter, we’ve got every tube stuffed full of lead and it’s hanging off every frame rail. Had to spend half a day fabricating brackets to make up for the mini clutch. I’d say 3000 lb. after the race no top off might help tire wear but weighing cars beforehand is too much of a hassle. Mini clutch? Man I dunno. I lobbied for it at the onset but now that everyone has a good heavy clutch I don’t see it increasing car counts. A nodular corvette flywheel and the cheap clutch Jack recommends is durable, dang near light as the rules allow and buttons up the back of a motor for $300. I really don’t see complying with this rule as a barrier to entry. Shocks? Another hard call. I bought my first new set this past season. Prior to these we bought used ones from slm teams and I know a lot of TSRS cars do the same. Converting to steel takes away that option. If we change to a steel bodied shock I have to buy new shock bodies but it doesn’t give me less shock, just less $ in the bank before `05. I like single piston calipers from an expense standpoint. Multi piston brakes can get way out of hand cost wise and do make a performance difference. Tires are a huge expense so some type of tire purchase rule would be cool, not sure how you’d enforce it though. A 7 or even 14 day test ban wouldn’t bother me either but I’m not sure how to go about that without ticking off some of the track owners. Motor-wise I’d say leave well enough alone except anything that increases durability. I’ve blown `em up a hundred ways but never because of a broken chain. Belt drives I have no problem with but I wouldn’t mess with the bottom end or head/intake rules. In MHO it’s a tried and true equalizer that encourages enough experimentation so as not to stifle creativity but keeps things on a pretty level playing field. jp

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i have to agree with the timing chain deal also we have lost 2 motors this year due to these crappy chains. ----- it will require a large initial investment for the belt drive but it sure would have saved a lot of money for us this year.

I have to agree about the timing chain. These series directors get so myopic they can't see that a $200 gear drive is cheaper than a $4500 engine repair.

Since your series will probably not see the lite, here's an alternative:

 

There's a company out of Austrailia called ROLLMASTER. They make a true double roller, Billet Steel, 9 key, non roller timing set that is prefitted with Torrington bearings for the SBC. Cost is $77 and it can be ordered by calling (800) 792-9984. Order part #CS1040.

 

Hope this helps until common sense prevails.

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