? for Mike and Paul

[w2racing]

HEY MIKE AND PAUL, why were we out ran at our home track? Could it be that the guys from I37, Kyle and Corpus were allowed to run 8 and 10 inch tires, 500 cfm carbs, standard trannys and locked down rear ends. That is hard to beat with a 7 inch tire, 350 cfm carb, an automatic and a single tract rear end. The pole sitter ran a 23.20. That is unheard of from any of our guys. George Reyes qualified 9th. That car he was in has been one of the fastest cars all year. He ran something like a 24.30. Those guys should of either ran by our rules or we should of been allowed to run the same tire and carb as those guys from out of town. NO CHANCE TO WIN. WHOS SIDE ARE YOU ON, MIKE AND PAUL???????????????

[tipsyj]

I would like to see ever one get off paul and mike's back they are doing everything they can to make the track work and yes there are some things I don't like I just talk them over with paul but once the rules are set I live with it. We have the right to take our cars and go to another track or stay and race. We all knew the rules with THR CCMS and I-37 before we went to the track and still choose to race. Also keep in mind that Paul sets the rules we follow so just find a way to follow and both sides are happy. change your car to I-37 drit car and run it at both tracks you may find its alot of fun I did. Paul and mike I know you have a hard job and at times you must think we3 are all pains but I would like to say thanks for your time and hard work this year and I'm looking forward to next year. NBy the way the 51 car will be fixed by next year

 

Larry

[Jkelly57]

I thought it was one heluva show! Rules are rules and I think Mike & Paul are on the right track to helping racing in south Texas. About the trucks not running w/ the sportsmen though......... hehehe j/j

 

Jr.

[lemon chicken]

how do you think mike and paul are on the right track?

 

They have said on many occasions that they will not let our local cars be at a disadvantage to cars coming from other tracks.

 

That was not true.

 

That is also why the latemodels had to but different wheels to be competitive

instead of making the 1 or 2 TSRS cars make changes

 

Our 10-12 cars had to spend money and make changes to accomodate the 1-2 TSRS cars

 

IS THAT FAIR

[Crazyhorse]

how do you think mike and paul are on the right track?

 

They have said on many occasions that they will not let our local cars be at a disadvantage to cars coming from other tracks.

 

That was not true.

 

That is also why the latemodels had to but different wheels to be competitive

instead of making the 1 or 2 TSRS cars make changes

 

Our 10-12 cars had to spend money and make changes to accomodate the 1-2 TSRS cars

 

IS THAT FAIR

if i'm not mistaken-don't the sa lm's run on 10" tires all the time??????????it was (1) tsrs car with an sa local- racing that tsrs car by sa lm rules package that won the race..........there was'nt another tsrs car even close to being in the mix-so how is that accommodating to or against anyone....

nothing you stated even remotely factual????????????????????

 

 

s.a. l.m.- 10"slicks?

tsrs l.m.- 8" f53

 

-which one of these needed to spend a butt load of money just to try and be competitive?????

[racerjim2]

I think what he is refering to is the 1/4 season change in left side weight rule and the track width rule that went from 64 1/2 to 65 1/2 qnd then to 67 1/2 for octoberfast so the non SAS cars coul compete

[racerjim2]

the left side rule use to be 55% then they changed it to 57% for a peremiter car

[Rookie49]

I'm pretty certain that you're not going to put 8" tires against 10" tires no matter the 2" of track width or the better left side % and win.

[lemon chicken]

Crazyhorse

 

-They let the TSRS guys run 10 tires when they ran with the latemodels.

-He (TSRS Driver) was not going by Latemodel rules, it was TSRS rules he was following, an offset car is not a NASCAR latemodel.

-When SAS decided to let TSRS run with 10" tires against the latemodels. the latemodels were at a disadvantage, so instread of changing the rules for 1 or 2 TSRS cars they instead changed the rules for the weekly latemodel guys by increasing the left side weight (no expense, just alot of work) and increased the track width by 1" forcing the latemodel regulars to buy new leftside wheels

 

Hope this clears up what I was trying to say earlier

[Joe Aramendia]

The track opened up the rules to let TSRS cars run, to pull more cars for the weekly series. We built 2 TSRS cars not for an advantage, but so we could race more than one class. The 50 car ran a legal late model engine with a 32 pound clutch appox. twice as heavy as a late model mini clutch, A stock front clip,and big springs with more unsprung weight, and it won the first 3 times out. On Oct. 9, 3 of the top 4 SAS cars out ran me in time trials but I won the race. Note that the only TSRS type cars that have won in the late model class have been driven by Branden B. or me. Also in the big race that Branden won in Loyed's car there were 3 TSRS cars 1, 3, and 7 in the top 10. spots 2, 4, 5, 6, and 10 were SAS cars. Also I am a SAS driver first, that built a car that was allowed in SAS rules to compete. What does any one have to complain about? If the rules change, change with the rules.

 

 

Joe Aramendia

[Rookie49]

Well said.

[racerjim2]

I dont disagree with building a car that fits into the new changed rules. The only gripe I have is messing with the formula that has been working for the last dosen years. Since the rule change Joe has been the most consistant TSRS to show at SAS they have not generated an increase in car count on a regular bassis that i hope they were looking for it has hurt car count we lost some of the lesser funded teams that cant afford the new enging package and the new weight rules this may be a short term problem but the rules need to remain consistant for a period of time so they can catch up financily. I race my stock clip big spring 105" wheelbase car with 64.5 track width and 55% leftside weight with the late models and the only way that i could get more is to buy diffrent offset wheels lefts and rights to try to get the 57% left side weight My car has all the lead on the left side of the car and we can barely get 55%. Where the majority of the TSRS car are running some type of offset car that race with 55% left side weight anywayand it is easier for the TSRS cars to get 55% with an offset car then for a prerimiter car to get 57% leftside weight. most of the SAS Late Models are still running around 56.5% left because they still cant get 57%even with the trackwidth maxed.now i guess the problem is for the track do you keep the rule that is currently in place or do you change the rule back to what it was before either way it is going to cost someone money to comply to the rules. this is just my thought on this subject all car that compete in the NASCAR DODGE LMS series are allowd to run on 10" tires if they run 8" tires they aare not reading the rules correctly

[Joe Aramendia]

I understand your point Jim and I know you have driven both kind of cars. But can you explain why Larry, and James are so fast in their cars under the rules at this time. Because they have been faster than me at times in the year. I think the regular TSRS drivers are not coming because they feel they are giving up too much to the late models. If we dont come up with a way to get the drivers (SAS and TSRS) happy SAS will lose or get rid of the late model class. I have heard rummers about this all year and I would hate to see it happen. Also Jim if you have 8 or 9 late models and then you get one more car, thats better than a 10% increase. If the other TSRS drivers see a car built to their rules run well, maybe more will come with time. But they must first feel like they are welcome to come out. And thats up to the track and its drivers, it does not fall on one group, but one side or the other can make a big difference.

[racerjim2]

Oh Joe dont get me wrong I dont think letting the TSRS cars run with the SAS Late models is a bad thing, but I think the should have left the left side weight rule alone it has cost most of the late model drivers at SAS some money to convert thier wheel inventory over to different offsets on top of the change of the engine rules.It should be easier for the TSRS cars to get 55% left side weight then it is for the SAS late model guys to get 57%. the TSRS guys had to buy wheels to run with us and the TSRS leftside weight rule is 55% anyway, why make them have to change thier cars to run at SAS? Heck the SAS web sight dosent even reflect the change in the left side % rule.In this time of soft economy having drivers spend money unnessarly is a sure way to kill car count and maybe a whole class of car. I have even tried to get some of the other TSRS cars to come race here so if it sounded like I didnt want them thats not my point. Just want someone to relise that we dont have bottomless pockets.

[fishracer]

The really glaring thing about all the SAS LM rules changes is that it did not give 1 more consistent car all season but it did give about 6 extra blown motors and the racing was not any better than with the 350cfm 2bbl and guess what, the fans could not tell the difference in speed and quality of racing because there were less cars. As jim said some of the lesser funded teams gave up. What Mike and Paul do not understand is that the reason most of the TSRS guys race with Mary Ann because they don't have to race every weekend for their points championship and it costs less to run fewer races. Its the cost that is running away cars not the 350 carbs. With the 500cfm carbs it has increased the horsepower by 30% and couple that with the 10" tire grip your forcing some serious forces threw the drivetrain with that come durability issues. Why do they keep increasing the costs. NASCAR was not stupid when they wrote their engine rules, just ask the 300-400 LMS teams on the east coast. Hell, let them run any chassis they want to, but limit the horsepower, the cheapest way for the TSRS cars to run with the SAS cars(350cfm) is to put a SAS registered restrictor plate on their car for 1 race with the 500cfm carb and if they like it let them build a SAS legal motor and put it in their car or continue to run the restrictor plate.

 

The biggest problem is SAS doesnt dangle the NASCAR carrot enough, how many teams outside of SA completely understand the rule book or points system or let alone have anyone to explain the rules or sell them on why they need to race at SAS. What a pitiful waste.

[Joe Aramendia]

Jim I agree with what you are saying about the left side weight. I would like it more if I did not have to give it up. They made thier changes based off what I was doing in the 50 car. But if you look at what everyone else has been doing (TSRS, take Brandon out) I think it hurts our chances on getting more cars.

 

You make some good points Fishracer, But it does not matter to me if all late models, and TSRS type cars running in the late model class run 350 carbs. My points are mostly about chassis not HP, like I wrote in an earlier post the 50 car was running a nascar late model engine. As far as money goes I believe it cost as much or more to race TSRS as it does to run SAS late model. By the time you add towing cost, hotel rooms, and food to feed your help for a couple of days it comes out pretty even. I learned this by helping Damon (44) run in Houston and Corpus Christi. If its a two day thing where they have practice on Friday, it gets worse. So, I think it's more just letting them know they are welcome to come. Not just by other racers, but by the track also. Also if the rules do not change much then SAS will have two more cars on a more consistent basis (mine).

 

 

Joe Aramendia

[fishracer]

Joe, I completely agree with the cost issue of TSRS vs SA. I believe you were were running the SAS latemodel engine but with the 500 that is the issue. The whole idea for going with the 500's was to attract more TSRS/THR cars, not one car consistently came. If they did not come last year what makes anyone think more will come in 2005. The durability issue of running one of these 500 engines with the 10"tires for 20-22 weeks straight is the problem. As it sits all of the lower classes have the same intake and carb 350/perfomer. If these guys move up they just need to buy the heads and a cam(since most of the front runners have the good rods and pistons anyway). One of the reasons they went to 350cfm carbs years ago was just not because of the Nascar rule, it was because of the blown engine costs. Yea, its great to run those ballistic times but the track needs car count and increasing the costs is no way to increase the car count. If you look at one of the most successful tracks on the west coast. (Irwindale) Yea they run the 500 but look closely at the rules, they run a restrictor plate. That way teams can come and run with equipment from the outside and have some chance at being competitive and yet save the weekly guys money on the long term engine costs. I do not believe there is just not one

thing that will rebuild the car count, it is bunch of little things which will take alot of hard work on the managements part to rebuild if they care enough. One of the things is racer confidence, if you rebuild that then they will be the tracks biggest chearleaders and biggest salesman. Also the management has to sell the outside racers on why they need to travel to SA to race. Having a couple of the disgruntled ex-SA/now TSRS teams bad mouthing the track to TSRS racers doesn't help.

[rpfan]

TSRS cost verses SA cost

 

SAS cost

NASCAR license 185.00 ea. X 4 740.00

Entry fees 0.00

Pit passes 16.00 ea. X 4 people 64.00 X 10 races 640.00

4 10in. tires ea. Race 578.00 per set x 10 races 5780.00

Hotels if you live in or close to SA 0.00 0.00

Fuel for racecar avg.10 gal.per.race @ 4.50 per. gal. 45.00 X 10 races 450.00

Food basically eat @ home & buy concessions

Hauler fuel for avg.p/u truck 10 gal per race 2.00 per gal.20.00 x 10 races 200.00

 

Totals 7470.00 for less half the season x 2 for 20 races 14940.00

 

 

 

 

TSRS cost

 

 

Entry fees 125.00 per race if paid in advance x 10 races 1025.00

Pit passes 25.00 ea. X 4 people 100.00 x 10 races 1000.00

4 8in. tires ea. Race 432.00 per set x 10 races 4320.00

Hotel 2 rooms with double beds 106.00 (TSRS rates) x 7 out of town races 1 night 742.00

Food 7 trips out of town 4 people eating 3 x daily 15.00 ea. 180.00 x 7 1260.00

Fuel for racecar avg.15 gal. per race @ 4.50 per gal. 67.50 x 10 races 675.00

Hauler fuel for avg. p/u truck 2.00 per gal. 45 gal x 3 for H town 30 x 3 for CC

Same as above for SA races 10 gal. x 3 510.00

 

Totals 9532.00 for a full season

These totals are all approx. but are close. Looks like TSRS may be less expensive to run.

[lloyd#5]

i agree with fishracer on one point and that is the relationship between the drivers and management is a major factor in deciding whether to run a certain track or series. in business you have to make your customers(drivers) feel like they are more than just a revenue stream, you have to make them feel special like they really mean something to you and that they are getting something special by doing business with you.

[Joe Aramendia]

I understand everyone has a different view but ya'll pretty much know mine. If it were not for SAS, Kyle, CC Speedway, and Houston Motor Sports Park, where would any one get into racing or for that matter even get to race. When I ran in TSRS I was treated well, But I have leared to get along with SAS officals and get treated well. SAS twice the races twice the fun, but also more work, pick your poison. One more thing I plan to race with TSRS when I get a chance, and have nothing against it. All the tracks, and the series need cars and fans.

 

 

Joe Aramendia

[REBELRACER]

sas pit passes $16.00.................is that some kind of special deal or what because we paid $20 all year for license and $30 all year without...............if it was $16 then i want my $64 refund for the overage ($4.00 x 16 races)................tehehe.................

[fishracer]

LLoyd hit the nail on the head with the business relationship correlation. People do business with people. What is irritating is that there is a string of things that must be put together for any venue or business to be successful. It takes foresight, just like a driver looking to the next turn, a promoter must look ahead years in advance trying to see how the technical and economic decisions they make today will affect future driver recruitement

 

Make the class attractive to as many racers as possible.

a.) Look at the driver and equipment pool, if the lower classes can take

some of their more expensive parts to the next class it might

make the transistion easier and less expensive and therefore more

attractive. If not the result might be a certain driver dominating for

years and killing that class, or a driver from an upper class drops

down because that class becomes to expensive and dominates also

killing the class.

b.)Be consistent in enforcement of the rules and enforce every rule to

the letter. Believe it or not racers liked to be policed by techs not buy

their fellow racer. You are not doing anyone favors by saying " Its OK

this week but do not bring it back this way". What the hell have the

rules been distributed for.

c.)Compitent technical staff. It really looks bad when a racer has to

explain to a tech official how to read the rules or what they mean, let

alone show them how to use a technical tool. Good tech officials

want respect from the drivers, the only way they are going to get it

is to be knowledgable about the rules they are enforcing and

consistent. Part of it is researching what the rules mean and why

they were written and continue to keep up with all the new

technology,just like good racers does. Be one step ahead. No

monkey see, monkey do.

 

Don't just live off the back gate. Yes there is a revenue stream there, but why are the stands built. For the Fans. Give them a show they will talk about. The only way to do that is build classes that the rules make everyone equal to the point that the costs are reasonable and the cam selection and driver skill are the only thing that make a difference.

 

Market, Market, Market.

 

To the racers- tell them why they need to race at your track. Explain what you get by racing at your venue. Tell them you have a good relationship with the media and they will hear their names on the radio or in the paper. At SAS tell them why it is better to be a member of Nascar and what value is associated with that. Explain the points fund system, the rules the procedures. Have someone compitent and always available to do these things. Do not assume everyone on the outside know what and why you are doing things, toot the tracks horn.

 

To the fans- Do the above and you will bring more fans.

 

To the sponsors- Bring more fans and the sponsors will bring more dollars-both to the drivers and the track.

 

As you can see the string starts with the racer, give them a good economical reason to race and all the other things will follow.

[rpfan]

Rebel

sorry I didnt know it was 20.00 to get in weekly. I thought it was still 16.00 but im not suprised. I guess my sas late model pit passes should have been higher.

[kelyd13]

rpfan,

 

 

If your talking about the cost for SAS in you above post your figures are all wrong. You might want to check with Mike Sepich to get the real numbers. If I remember correctly this is what I paid

 

 

NASCAR LICENSE-DRIVER $90.00

NASCAR LICENSE-CREW $90.00

PIT PASS W/LICENSE $20.00

PIT PASS W/O LICENSE $30.00

General admn- go to sas website

Somebody please correct me if this info is wrong.

 

 

Not bad for a nights worth of fun!

[rpfan]

That is your class for license Kelly. Late model are double that or more