TJVANCE Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I HEREBY RELINQUISH MY FAMILY, FRIENDS, ACQUAINTANCES, MY HOUND DOG AND MY TALKING PARROTT FROM ANY AND ALL RESPONSIBILITIES THAT ANYONE MAY INCUR UPON THE AFOREMENTIONED FOR MY RIGHTS UNDER THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION OF MY FREEDOM OF SPEECH IN RELATING MY OPINIONS ABOUT WHOMEVER AND WHEREVER I DECIDE TO DO SO. MY OPINIONS SHOULD NOT BE ATTRIBUTED TO THE SCRUTINAZATION OF ANY OR ALL OF THE AFOREMENTIONED. HOLDING SOMEONE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEEDS OF OTHERS IS LIKE HOLDING THE DOG RESPONSIBLE FOR DOG FIGHTING. NUFF SAID..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Of course, Reb. Take it to the folks who can do something about the problem. That's what Lone Star Speedzone has been advocating for several years now. But, as we all know, venting in public is much more personally satisfying that bringing the problem to the folks who can actually do something about the problem. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJVANCE Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 IF FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS TAKEN AWAY, THEN DUMB AND SILENT WE MAY BE LED, LIKE SHEEP TO THE SLAUGHTER... GEORGE WASHINGTON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trbfan Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in here from someone that has only been a fan and never actually raced(yet). I somehow hadn't even known about Thunderhill until the NASCAR West race in 2009..Since then I've only missed 1 race due to prom(would have rather been at the track though). Personally I dont particularly like the rule, I guess I can see where some are coming from that some rights might be taken away. I've been visiting here for two years and maybe I've just missed it, but I really havent seen anything that would likely be in violation of this rule. This is certainly nothing that would stop me from coming to the track, I know we each have our own opinions, but I guess to me it seems like a bit of an overreaction to this rule. As best I can tell, this rule does not stop you from going to the officials if you have a problem, which in the end is likely the best way to solve any problem you might have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in here from someone that has only been a fan and never actually raced(yet). I somehow hadn't even known about Thunderhill until the NASCAR West race in 2009..Since then I've only missed 1 race due to prom(would have rather been at the track though). Personally I dont particularly like the rule, I guess I can see where some are coming from that some rights might be taken away. I've been visiting here for two years and maybe I've just missed it, but I really havent seen anything that would likely be in violation of this rule. This is certainly nothing that would stop me from coming to the track, I know we each have our own opinions, but I guess to me it seems like a bit of an overreaction to this rule. As best I can tell, this rule does not stop you from going to the officials if you have a problem, which in the end is likely the best way to solve any problem you might have. Thank You! That was well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Mark.....that's not what you said though.....and if you didn't get a satifactory result, then what...... Nick....We all know by now that this is your playground and we have to play by your rules.....or we take our toys to another lot....LOL OK....here's my take...... I get what THR/HMP are trying to do with the kids.....stuff posted can come back and bite them in the ass, whether it be for future rides, jobs, promotions, whatever......but as for us OTF'(Old Tired Farts) we're past that time of life..... Telling us(OTF's) what we can/can't post on our own personal websites, myspace, whatever does infringe on our "FREEDOM OF SPEECH....Those are our own personal pages, not LSSZ Ya know.....if it HADN'T BEEN for my ability to write less than pleasant things about race tracks....my writing future would have ended as quick as it started.....and I'm sure SOME wish that would have happened......Despite some of my disparaging remarks and comments in TEX-US Racing News, then RATT Traxx Racing Paper my popularity grew.....I even had track owners come up to me and tell me that they needed to hear some of the things from an outside observer to fully grasp the fact that they had a problem......Sure they had heard it from drivers....but blew it off as drivers being whiners.....Plus I usually tried to offer up a solution or compromise in some cases.... That being said.....I fully understand that tracks don't need/want a lot of negative publicity in order to keep the doors/gates open.....and getting on saying track owner "A" is dirty rotten you-know-what is distructive or that driver "B" is a NDMF won't accomplish much except an online pissing match..... .....but, if driver "C" goes to track owner "D" and presents a problem and gets the sometimes typical "WHATEVER" response.....He's going to vent.....whether it be online, at the bar afterwards or all his friends......either way it's going end up in the open, and get around...... I have an enormous amount of respect for Mary Ann and what she's done for central Texas pavement racing and love her like a sister.....The Baker's I don't know as well, but deserve the same.....I just feel this oversteps the bounds.... Again this goes back to who judges.....What are the parameters...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Well, up until now, this has been a fairly constructive discussion that refrained (for the most part) from bashing track managers, etc. However, I have had to delete a couple of posts that took this thread as their opportunity to air their gripes about this or that track. As most know by now, Lone Star Speedzone is not the place to air complaints, get on the proverbial soabox and spout off about how they were mistreated, etc. Got a gripe? That's OK. We all have a gripe or two at some point or other in our racing career. But take your issue to the source rather than ranting about it in the forums. Thanks. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtRacer9s Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Does anyone know if HMP has had to enforce this rule since it was put into effect??? Just curious. I have no dog in this fight anymore but I don't believe what I put on my F/B page should be grounds for suspension or any other type of punishment. No matter what I say about a track. But since I don't like it I just won't race there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Moon Motorsports Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I guess the bottom line is this: WHO or WHOM makes the decision of what or what not is in line? Is it an arbitrary decision or based on a concrete set of rules and regulations? Will there be and APPEAL process? I believe that unless someone is threatening LIFE, LIMB OR PROPERTY of THR, A THR OFFICIAL OR ANOTHER DRIVER OR CREW , the arbitrary enforcement of off track statements and opinions that affect ON TRACK points etc. is wrong. Any time you have an arbitrary set of rules with out an appeal process, the potential for abuse (to use the rule as punishment), the appearance of favoritism and the human tendancy to allow personal feelings and emotions to color such decisions, the potential is there for the consequences of the track enforcing the rule to outweigh the damage done by the posts. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot for the sake of appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerhuntersmj Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Blah Blah Blah people let it ride If this is all you have to Bitch about our lives must be pretty good If you have a problem with somebody take it to them Quit trash talkin and hiddin behind a computer This rule shouldnt effect anybody unless YOUR SCARED to go staight to the source of your frustrations I really find this amusing and so petty RELAX people take a chill pill. When its time to fight and raise hell you will know and right now is not the time . we just got great news about our track lets absorb that instead of all this negativity . Hell I like to raise hell but over this? Its to early LIKE HE SAID !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh42 Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 I guess the bottom line is this: WHO or WHOM makes the decision of what or what not is in line? Is it an arbitrary decision or based on a concrete set of rules and regulations? Will there be and APPEAL process? I believe that unless someone is threatening LIFE, LIMB OR PROPERTY of THR, A THR OFFICIAL OR ANOTHER DRIVER OR CREW , the arbitrary enforcement of off track statements and opinions that affect ON TRACK points etc. is wrong. Any time you have an arbitrary set of rules with out an appeal process, the potential for abuse (to use the rule as punishment), the appearance of favoritism and the human tendancy to allow personal feelings and emotions to color such decisions, the potential is there for the consequences of the track enforcing the rule to outweigh the damage done by the posts. Let's not shoot ourselves in the foot for the sake of appearances. This is what I have been asking is who and how they will police this but no one has answered. Another question I have no affiliation with THR or HMP or any team that runs at the tracks I get on facebook or here as LSS and rant about what I saw at the races when i was there as a paying customer watching the races will the mentioned drivers be punished or will my entry as a paying customer to the track be revoked? I'm not trying to be an ass just a question I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 Who is hiding? We all know who each person is on here. And they will be at the track the next race weekend. And IMHO a lot of the times things do not get resolved by meeting in person. Things stay the same. So people want to vent. And they should have the right to vent. No one here should be treated like a child with the threat of being sent to your room and not being able to play with your friends for saying something. Thats the way I see it. Whats funny to me is that we hear about this TV show oppertunity, and then all of the sudden this comes out. Seems to be going hand in hand. No one wants to watch a TV show about racing thats all sugar coated. Thats not real saturday night racing and people know it. Let it be what it is supposed to be. Good times, spending lots of money, hot days, cool nights, a happy winner and 5 pissed off drivers yelling at each other in the pits. Thats saturday night racing. This shouldnt try to be turned into the mini NASCAR CUP series. Now lets get back to having fun. Signed and not hiding, Johnny Lewallen There you go!!! Gunnar Frid that makes two of us.......i like the way he thinks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMRacer89 Posted November 4, 2010 Report Share Posted November 4, 2010 This is what I have been asking is who and how they will police this but no one has answered. Exactly. Obviously a curse-laden description of the track or officials would be "too far". However, should I expect to never race at THR again because I say "I hate that dirt berm on the backstretch"? Sounds an awful lot like NA$CAR's "Section 12-1: Actions detrimental to stock car racing" rule..... If they can't bust you with anything else, they'll bust you with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
97car Posted November 6, 2010 Report Share Posted November 6, 2010 I agree on some the individuals should contact the track or officials like it was before the internet. The whole ordeal I will reserve my judgement at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Ann Naumann Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 Hey racers I have watched this thread off & on since the big announcement of the exciting TV reality show coming to THR & I'm so disappointed that the J21 rule has gotten nearly 4300 hits! I know it's not 4300 different people, many of us have logged on more then once, you think!?! Anyway point to this post is... Some of you have made some valid points, I did say some of you LOL, so, I wanted to formally announce that I will NOT be adding this rule to the 2011 THR Race Procedures. Enough said. Respectfully, Mary Ann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdw64 Posted November 10, 2010 Report Share Posted November 10, 2010 A timely article.......... USA Today Article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arob Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Interesting reading here.I don't see where anyones freedom of speech is being restricted here. No one said don't post negative comments on your personal site. But you can be held responsible for your words. Free speech guarentees your right to say anything. But it doesn't protect you from repurcussions as a result. I can understand if it came from the driver and somewhat from a crewmember.But a drivers friends no way. Plus it would be a nightmare for the poor person in charge of discipline to be consistant.Another thing just think of the postings that would result if a driver/team got banned.That would do more damage than anything.There are ways of dealing with stuff like that anyway without the track going to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 The horse is dead,we can stop kicking it now.Kudos to Mary Ann for understanding.Freedom wins again although not much to win.The American way prevailed.Now back to racing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby Fan Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 I know this horse is dead but I think this rule was brought up in an attempt to protect us from ourselves. There's going to be a bright spot light brought on to this track and the people associated with it (drivers, fans, staff) thanks to the TV program. How many times have we vented on here and later find out we didn't really know all the facts? Just be careful what you say so you don't look like a dumba$$ on a national level. It could come around and bite you later. Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathy Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 I know this horse is dead but I think this rule was brought up in an attempt to protect us from ourselves. There's going to be a bright spot light brought on to this track and the people associated with it (drivers, fans, staff) thanks to the TV program. How many times have we vented on here and later find out we didn't really know all the facts? Just be careful what you say so you don't look like a dumba$$ on a national level. It could come around and bite you later. Who knows? I think these are some very wise words to read and remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilTPS Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Mary Ann: Regarding your post, “Hey racers I have watched this thread off & on since the big announcement of the exciting TV reality show coming to THR & I'm so disappointed that the J21 rule has gotten nearly 4300 hits! I know it's not 4300 different people, many of us have logged on more then once, you think!?! Anyway point to this post is... Some of you have made some valid points, I did say some of you LOL, so, I wanted to formally announce that I will NOT be adding this rule to the 2011 THR Race Procedures. Enough said. Respectfully, Mary Ann” Have you also decided to change your decision regarding the Texas Pro Sedans at THR in 2011? All of TPS respectfully hopes that you will. Neil Upchurch Founder and Former Driver, Race & Administrative Director Texas Pro Sedans 210/655-3222 neilupchurch@sbcglobal.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobbinsSr Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 The Dwarf cars feel the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBSF Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 Hey racers I have watched this thread off & on since the big announcement of the exciting TV reality show coming to THR & I'm so disappointed that the J21 rule has gotten nearly 4300 hits! I know it's not 4300 different people, many of us have logged on more then once, you think!?! Anyway point to this post is... Some of you have made some valid points, I did say some of you LOL, so, I wanted to formally announce that I will NOT be adding this rule to the 2011 THR Race Procedures. Enough said. Respectfully, Mary Ann We are our own worst enemy.... As ironic as this sounds, I believe the "concern" of censorship is the only negative thing I've heard about your facility. As someone who has had to go back and remove the size 10 from my mouth, I can sympathize. Keep up the good work, I hope to visit soon. Race SAFE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tqj3 Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 The real problem with trying to improve your reputation by censoring your drivers and crews is that it won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted November 11, 2010 Report Share Posted November 11, 2010 The real problem with trying to improve your reputation by censoring your drivers and crews is that it won't work. TQ, In case you didn't see it, Mary Ann has already announced in an earlier post that she is backing off the rule. Case closed. In the second place, there was no censorship involved. People have a right to post whatever they want to on their personal website and can post whatever they want on other websites within the guidelines established by the owners of those other websites. However, the repercussions for posting messages that contain illegal content or content that is deemed unacceptable by others is always there whether you own the site or not. Posting illegal content may bring legal consequences. Posting unacceptable content may bring personal consequences. For instance, if someone were to post on their FB page that they hate their ugly, smelly spouse, the repercussions may be that the posting party will end up in divorce court, or worse. Yes, it was legal to post that about their spouse and certainly was consistent with the "freedom of speech" heritage we know and love in America, but the consequences of our words is always there - always has been, always will be. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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