Two Cup teams penalized after New Hampshire

[NickHolt]

Two NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Teams Penalized For Infractions At New Hampshire

 

Daytona Beach, Florida (September 22, 2010) – NASCAR has issued penalties, suspensions and fines to two teams in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, as a result of rules infractions discovered this week during post-race inspection at the NASCAR Research and Development Center following last Sunday’s race at New Hampshire Motor Speedway.

 

The No. 33 team [Clint Bowyer] was found to be in violation of Sections 12-1 (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 12-4-J (any determination by NASCAR officials that the race equipment used in the event does not conform to NASCAR rules); and 20-3 (car body location specifications in reference to the certified chassis did not meet NASCAR-approved specifications) of the 2010 NASCAR Rule Book.

 

As a result, crew chief Shane Wilson has been fined $150,000, suspended from the next six NASCAR Sprint Cup events, suspended from NASCAR until Nov. 3 and placed on probation until Dec. 31. Car chief Chad Haney has also been suspended from the next six NASCAR Sprint Cup events, suspended from NASCAR until Nov. 3 and placed on probation until Dec. 31. Driver Clint Bowyer and owner Richard Childress have been penalized with the loss of 150 championship driver and owner points, respectively.

 

The No. 46 team [Michael McDowell] was found to be in violation of Sections 12-1, 12-4-J, and 20-5.8.4.C (engine exhaust valves did not meet the minimum weight requirement) of the 2010 NASCAR Rule Book.

 

Crew chief Jeremy Lafaver has been fined $50,000, suspended from the next six NASCAR Sprint Cup events, suspended from NASCAR until Nov. 3 and placed on probation until Dec. 31. Driver Michael McDowell and owner Dusty Whitney have been penalized with the loss of 50 championship driver and owner points, respectively.

[b50]

Well there goes all of Clints momentum after winning the first chase race!

[racer61]

Shouldnt body location of been caught during pre race inspection? I mean come on, they have the templates and everybody has to pass before entering the track before the first practice.

[trbfan]

As far as what I've heard...They said the Richmond car was close to being illegal, but the team hadnt been told that till tuesday. They get the car to Loudon, it passed pre-race inspection. I am not sure what happened in post race inspection if it passed or not. I think the car may have passed post race and they took it to the R&D lab and found something.

 

 

I also hate to see small teams with almost no money like Whitney Motorsports get penalized like that.

Edited September 22, 2010 by trbfan

[jwmbishop]

Bowyer looses 150 chase pts and crew chief

 

Wow - I am at a loss for words on the risk taking here - it wasn't the first time they played with this. NASCAR warned em the first and BAM.

[RodneyRodriguez]

wow lost 150 pts and mucho dinero, from 2nd to 12th in the chase!

rear end issues......... don't think it had anything to do with the hamburger helper...

[fast18]

I was just reading the details posted by Nick in Press Releases, and Results.....bummer.

[Blue Moon Motorsports]

This is a very interesting article......

 

 

 

NASCAR sets precedent

[rebelracewriter]

Didn't "just happen"......

 

They were warned....

http://www.nascar.com/2010/news/headlines/...hase/index.html

 

Take away the win.....kick him out of the chase and move someone else up!!!!

 

CHEATERS!!!!

[jwmbishop]

Boy this topic gets around more than I did when I was a teenager! lol

 

And I don't know about ya'll - but hamburger helper ALWAYS gives me rear end issues....

Edited September 23, 2010 by jwmbishop

[rebelracewriter]

but hamburger helper ALWAYS gives me rear end issues

 

LMAOOOOOOO

[colgate]

DQ them and not just give them fines. that means they get no money no nothing. then maybe they will play by the rules. then maybe more cars will be in good shape to win races instead of the same old freakin people.

[jwmbishop]

I agree - he got 195 pts and less 150 still leaves 45 he was not entitled to...

[Fordman]

SAD, I WONDER IF THEY HAVE LOOK THAT CLOSE AT J J & J G CARS

Edited September 24, 2010 by Fordman

[supertx]

I don't think you guys get it.These guys are racing to support a 50 million dollar a year corporation per team and hundreds of jobs per team,hobby to most people a job to these guys where they can take care of there familys.They live on the hero to zero theroy.They streach the rules abslote to the max sometimes you slip over what I hear the body was .0010 off and the valve was a half of a gram light.The difference at this level is win or lose, as I was told once you don't get paid to lose.

[lilmodified]

ok...here's my 2-1/2 cents worth:

the way i understand it, they passed both pre-and post race inspections. the portable equipment used at the track is not as good or exact as that used at the R&D center...so, when the teams push the limits close enough to get them passed at the track, they are jeopardizing failing final inspection. they know this going into it, but it's their chance to take. i made a comment elsewhere that the teams were basically set up for failure w/the lesser quality equipment at the track, and i do still feel that they are, but as has been wellllllll documented-they were warned!

i think the track equipment needs to be a little better, if they are going to rely on it for pre-and post race inspections, but i also think the teams should adhere to the warnings...a lot of teams are getting penalized for things that they were either already warned for, or other teams have previously done...

so, i guess it all still goes back to that old saying..."it's only cheatin' if ya get caught!"

[jwmbishop]

I agree with ya lil - but (always that big caveat) - the problem is the lines that are created with the rules. When you read a micrometer its accurate when the lines are perfectly aligned - the thickness of the line affects this. when the line is thinner - it is more accurate - but a line that is .001 thick will not be seen by a human eye!. Picture if you will a unmarked ten foot wide no mans land at the border - thats the tolerance - if you build a fence to hit right on the five foot line and the treaty gives you +/- 5 foot in some places you will be at one countrys door step and in some places you will be on the others. However if you build to take up all of that +/- and lay that bad boy right on the edge of the other side - you have an absolute zero tolerance - if someone leans on your fence - they just went into that other country! If you can be THAT accurate - you should be so RIGHT ON THE CENTER - not making a 5 foot land grab! (would you like it if you neighbor took half you back yard? lol)

 

Thats what happened here! NASCAR gives a spec and then a green zone that goes to a set point build to that - that's their inch given - if something happens (like a push from a tow truck) you end up in the yellow zone - your cool as long as you don't go past the yellow into the red. But if you take that inch in the build by constructing not only in the yellow zone but all the way through to the red (and they warn you - your mile taken from their inch) - You can't cry when a simple tap from a competitor puts you over in to the red! You KNEW you were there and they told you to back off. NASCAR is simply enforceing the thickness of the line on the micrometer!

 

Taking the car to the R&D center is the only way to cut and disaseemble to tell if you built green and went red or built yellow and went red - if they had build green - they would have not been penalized - but alas for the second week in a row they build in the no mans land all the way to the opposing border in defiance of the sanctioning body whose rules and rulings they agreed to follow - and who had told them to back down! Yes its a risk/reward thing. But at what cost risk and waht value reward? It was an all or nothing gamble - and I have no sypathy for someone who will lay thir entire life's savings on a single number at the roulette wheel. NONE.

 

And supertx - thats a valid point - but a good counter point is that if I can set bearing clearances to be within .001 on an $1800 street engine and .0002 on a $6000 race short block - surly the accuracy to support that multi million dollar operation can be incrementally upheld!

 

And all cars are checked - if green zone, or yellow closer to green - no follow up - if yellow closer to red or red then a follow up - so I feel confident i saying bot Johson's and Gordon's cars are looked at the same.

Edited September 24, 2010 by jwmbishop

[direct-flo]

When they venture into the forbidden zone they should at least consider wear and tear and on track incidents.

 

A certain series requires that you weight a minimum of 1675lbs. (post race). You must also maintain a minimum clearance of 4 inches. (post race)

 

Some have set the car up with a full fuel cell, and just meet the 1675lb requirement at the start of the race.

 

Some have set the car up pre-race to meet the minimum height rule (without the driver)

 

Those NASCAR teams should know better. If you put your foot too close to the fire, your going to get burned sometimes.

[lilmodified]

I agree with ya lil - but (always that big caveat) - the problem is the lines that are created with the rules. When you read a micrometer its accurate when the lines are perfectly aligned - the thickness of the line affects this. when the line is thinner - it is more accurate - but a line that is .001 thick will not be seen by a human eye!. Picture if you will a unmarked ten foot wide no mans land at the border - thats the tolerance - if you build a fence to hit right on the five foot line and the treaty gives you +/- 5 foot in some places you will be at one countrys door step and in some places you will be on the others. However if you build to take up all of that +/- and lay that bad boy right on the edge of the other side - you have an absolute zero tolerance - if someone leans on your fence - they just went into that other country! If you can be THAT accurate - you should be so RIGHT ON THE CENTER - not making a 5 foot land grab! (would you like it if you neighbor took half you back yard? lol)

 

Thats what happened here! NASCAR gives a spec and then a green zone that goes to a set point build to that - that's their inch given - if something happens (like a push from a tow truck) you end up in the yellow zone - your cool as long as you don't go past the yellow into the red. But if you take that inch in the build by constructing not only in the yellow zone but all the way through to the red (and they warn you - your mile taken from their inch) - You can't cry when a simple tap from a competitor puts you over in to the red! You KNEW you were there and they told you to back off. NASCAR is simply enforceing the thickness of the line on the micrometer!

 

Taking the car to the R&D center is the only way to cut and disaseemble to tell if you built green and went red or built yellow and went red - if they had build green - they would have not been penalized - but alas for the second week in a row they build in the no mans land all the way to the opposing border in defiance of the sanctioning body whose rules and rulings they agreed to follow - and who had told them to back down! Yes its a risk/reward thing. But at what cost risk and waht value reward? It was an all or nothing gamble - and I have no sypathy for someone who will lay thir entire life's savings on a single number at the roulette wheel. NONE.

 

And supertx - thats a valid point - but a good counter point is that if I can set bearing clearances to be within .001 on an $1800 street engine and .0002 on a $6000 race short block - surly the accuracy to support that multi million dollar operation can be incrementally upheld!

 

And all cars are checked - if green zone, or yellow closer to green - no follow up - if yellow closer to red or red then a follow up - so I feel confident i saying bot Johson's and Gordon's cars are looked at the same.

 

thanks for clearing that up! now, can i have my fence back please? hahahaha

jk...

i know it's all pretty technical, and that teams will push everything to the edge to get all they can trying to win...but, u would think they would know a little tolerance goes a long way and to not push QUITE so hard...

i have a hard time writing this stuf off as "it's just racing"...it's really disappointing to me when this happens

[rebelracewriter]

Funny listening to Bowyer cry on Speed Channel....All the time making the point it was the thickness of a quarter and then Dilner using a piece of gum as a reference.....Neither mentioned the allowance given BEFORE reaching that overage.....Sounds like a politicians(but that's a different arguement for another time)....LOL

 

Pemberton explained that the R&D shop equipment was far more critical than at track tech, and the car needed to be disassembled......Ever hear all the whining at a short track when tech wants to tear down a motor, right there, right then....

 

FWIW....regarding Bowyers comment on the tow truck bending the car......I drove a wrecker for 10 years back in Indiana and NEVER bent anyones quarter panels pushing them.....Plus they showed the wrecker easing up on Bowyers car and not ramming it.....So that bird don't fly with me.....

 

Face it....they pushed the limits and got caught...CHEATERS!!!

[thumper]

What if the infraction was the result of transporting the car?? It would not be the first freight damage.I dont think they drove it on and off the truck.Was it pushed by hand or another vehicle??

[rebelracewriter]

I think 20 300# bubbas picked it up..maybe they bent the car....LMAO

 

Doesn't matter was still outside tolerances....You can "what if" the subject to death....These cars are NOT that fragile...

[jwmbishop]

Yea thats it - bubba's fault!

 

Actually I am more inclined to blame Smokey Yunick and Junior Johnson and that whole bunch - they used to drive trucks through the loopholes and started the whole enforcement issue being a VERY fine line thing... the 20 gallon fuel tank and the "wing" roof of the Chevy are two of my favorites!

 

NASCAR has it tough - we racers are a creative and limit pushing bunch - far worse than the average teenager pushing his\her parents. - But if they don't set the line, define the laine and enforce the line - soon enough ya got super mods rolling against full bodied stockers!

[NickHolt]

This just in from NASCAR:

 

---------------------------------------

 

On September 29, 2010, the National Stock Car Racing Appeals Panel heard and considered the appeal of Richard Childress Racing regarding four penalties issued by NASCAR relative to the #33 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series car. This stemmed from post-race inspection following a NASCAR Sprint Cup Series event at New Hampshire Motor Raceway on September 21, 2010.

 

The penalties concern Section 12-1 of the NASCAR Rule Book “Actions detrimental to stock car racing.”; Section 12-4-J: “Any determination by NASCAR Officials that the Race Equipment used in the Event does not conform to NASCAR Rules”; and Section 20-3: “The car body location specifications in reference to the certified chassis does not meet the NASCAR-approved specifications.”

 

The penalties assessed were:

 

-Loss of 150 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Championship Car Owner points for owner, Richard Childress

 

-Loss of 150 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Championship Driver points for driver, Clint Bowyer

 

-$150,000 fine; suspension from the next six (6) NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Championship Events; suspension from NASCAR until November 3, 2010; and probation until December 31, 2010 for crew chief Shane Wilson

 

- Suspension from the next six (6) NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Championship Events; suspension from NASCAR until November 3, 2010; and probation until December 31, 2010 for crew member Chad Haney

 

The Appellants requested and were granted a deferral of the suspensions and fine until such time as this hearing could be convened.

 

The Appellants did not contest that the car measured out of specifications upon inspection.

 

The Appellants argued that, having received a warning about the car body of the #33 car being “too close” following the Richmond race, that it was inconceivable that they would bring a non-conforming car to New Hampshire.

 

They argued that the left rear frame member was actually bent upward as a result of the car being pushed towards Victory Lane by a wrecker after the post-race burnouts, which resulted in the left rear measurement “hard point” being too high. To this end, they also presented an accident reconstruction specialist to demonstrate that a wrecker might bend up the left rear strut in the trunk under certain conditions. The specialists, however, indicated that such an occurrence would strictly affect the left rear because of the match-up between the wrecker pushbar and the angle of the racecar’s rear bumper. He went on to say that the corresponding right rear measurements should not be affected, in his view, nor the frame member deformed as a team representative had alleged.

 

The Appellants also contested the severity and timing of the penalty.

 

Claims that the wrecker caused the infraction were negated by the telemetry from the car which did not show a sharp impact spike; by the fact that the rear template still fit snugly across the entire rear of the car; by a visual inspection of the rear of the car which showed nothing of note in the way of damage; and a visual review of the videotape of post race assistance tendered by the wrecker which appeared as relatively gentle pushing.

 

Of significance to the Panel were some additional facts which came to light during the hearing. Particularly of note were the facts that both rear hard points, left and right, were high, and that the rear of the body was offset on the frame.

 

The Panel found that the penalties were consistent for infractions of this magnitude.

 

Therefore, it is the unanimous decision of the National Stock Car Racing Appeals Panel to uphold the original penalties.

 

The periods of suspension shall be adjusted from the date of the hearing.

 

The Appellants have the right under Section 15 of the Rule Book to appeal this decision to the National Stock Car Racing Chief Appellate Officer. The Appellants submitted such a request and the fee immediately after the conclusion of the hearing.

 

John Capels

Lyn St James

Waddell Wilson

George Silbermann - Appellate Administrator and non-voting member

[trbfan]

Heres two quotes that were apparently in another article that I think says it all

 

"Childress brought an accident reconstruction specialist to the hearing, but Dr. Charles Manning of Accident Reconstruction Analysis in Raleigh said the three-member appeals panel was not interested in his presentation.

 

"They paid no attention to anything I said, which says something about what's going on in there," Manning said."

 

and.....

 

"Manning, who said he's been in the accident reconstruction business 45 years, said he recreated a tow truck pushing in the back of a Cup Series car to show how it could have damaged the frame.

 

"We ran into it, we pushed into it with a wrecker that was the same as Loudon," Manning said. "We gave them scientific reports and we testify all the time and they paid no attention."

 

NASCAR officials have refused to talk about specifics of the infraction because of the appeal but have said they do not believe contact from the wrecker had anything to do with the car being out of compliance."