Jump to content

Question


BJ34

Recommended Posts

well not trying to be the bad guy here , but if we go back to a pure stock class im parking my 2 cars im sorry but you make the fords go stock with there weight and they wont run with some of the front wheel drive cars like you are saying look at tommy he is running with the cars today and he is stock so you make the fords pull everything thing off and tommy and gb will dominate

STEVEN ..I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF GOING FULL STOCK WITH THIS CLASS .IT WOULD BE IMPOSIBLE ..BUT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE OR ELSE .... OR IS THIS CLASS A LOST PUPPY AND CANT BE FEXED ..... OTHER THAN TO KEEP ON GOING THE WAY IT IS ........... YOU KNOW IT WOULD BE EASIER TO JUST STAY WITH WHAT WE GOT NOW ..BUT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 130
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I am curious exactly what do you Mike and Steven want???Your not going to beat the fast Fords right now and you cant make special rules like what happened to front drive cars so how do you plan to slow down the Fords that are on top now???????? Be specific. Charley,what do you want to have a " FAIR " chance?? I say give OT and CRT V8 engines and then we start on equal footing.260 York,we will put you in a FWD.Cody,you have to push a FWD automatic car.Randy Lee,we will think of something for you,maybe get OT to drive for you.What else is needed to get everyone to go the same speed??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thumper. Here's the real problem. You have figured out how to win with an underpowered FWD car with built-in weight distribution inequities against cars with expensive heads and other Esslinger speed parts. Instead of learning suspension engineering theory, some of the competition opted to buy horsepower and further cripple the competition - you.

 

As Chief Tech for TPS for several years, I closely inspected every make and model that competed in the series during my tenure. Based on that experience I became aware of several Ford teams that employed sound suspension engineering knowledge to set up their cars. Those cars tended to win and frequently dominated. The Leroy Farmer, Randy Lee teams come to mind. And more recently, the Ja Lane and Tom Johnson teams (although I have not inspected either of those two Fords) have done the same.

 

During my tenure I also noted that there were other Ford teams who utilized engines similar to those teams mentioned above but were typically a second, or more, behind the faster Fords. While it is not my intent to degrade any particular team, I firmly believed that those Ford teams that were a second, or more, behind the leading Fords had not developed their suspension systems to the fullest. (Note: It is my understanding that Ja Lane did not use the Esslinger head, but rather a stock head that had been machined to his team's specs.)

 

Therefore, Thumper, I tend to agree with your assessment.

 

Nick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These same conversations year after year are the reasons why this class won't grow. Any new guy that wants a Ford is convinced that he is out gunned and anyone that wants a front wheel drive is afraid that they will be penalzed. In my opinion the Ford guys should petition for a third link and panhard bar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These same conversations year after year are the reasons why this class won't grow. Any new guy that wants a Ford is convinced that he is out gunned and anyone that wants a front wheel drive is afraid that they will be penalzed. In my opinion the Ford guys should petition for a third link and panhard bar.

 

 

i could help or should i say my brother with those leaf springs.but not for free.done that before and now it bit me!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so gb.... are we talking about me driving the rabbit, or the Karmagia??? sounds very very interesting now.... what you laughin about cody you gotta push around an automatic lol hope the driver knows had to turn left... And gb you gave us something and not you...What you think cody 300pd lead and instead of a steering wheel give him a pair of vice scripts sounds good....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

wow its amazing here im trying to get some rules in there that would slow down some of the fords and people are freaking out all im saying is the motor rules are wide open i think the rules shouldnt allow anything you want under the hood no esslinger heads no port and polishing take some of the stuff away in the engines and make the teams work on suspension but i dont want to go back down to a pure stock mini class

 

 

poorboy think back when you ran this class we had some good races the fords didnt have port and polished heads or the esslinger heads

Link to comment
Share on other sites

its cause g b will always try to get more and more for the front wheel drives and he dont like adding weight to his cars thats why this has always been a fight cause there are so many different type of cars running in the mini s but you have to set a min weight rule set some engine rules no port or polishing set a max valve size no stroking or destroking the motor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

.Randy Lee,we will think of something for you,maybe get OT to drive for you.

 

haha that will slow that car down real bad :lol::P

do you have first hand exsperience with me on the track ,,i cant figure out where you get that ill slow it down ..i maybe older rusty and out of racen shape .but anytime you want to go out on the track with me .you may be eating those words ..ill bring the steak sause ..what do you like ...57 or a1 .... dont make me any differents ..lo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

nevermind......................... im done .and that aint no lie . this subject is closed .

 

What happened to this?? :lol:

i didnt say anything aboult the other subject that i wont talk aboult on here anymore .. ...do i need to come by your work and explain it in detail ... or are you fine with this one ..lol ..................

 

 

 

hooliganz ..anytime you want one .bring it over and ill cook it . they are a1 good ...... 3/4 INCH MIN THICKNESS IS WHAT I LIKE TO PIT ..

 

 

 

TIM ..I AGREE WITH YOU .WHY RUIN A GOOD STEAK ..side note tim .is this the first time i have agreed with you after all the years ..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..side note tim .is this the first time i have agreed with you after all the years ..

 

Nah, not me. But, if disagreeing about a certain family member(s) of mine being fast, knowing his stuff, and winning is something to "debate" about, I will bring the facts. :P

 

Like Nick said, they did their research and it paid dividends. But, everyone always wants to point the finger at $$$ and Esslinger. It's kind of like in golf, the old saying, "Drive for show and putt for dough". You can't win if you can't turn.

 

Tim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..side note tim .is this the first time i have agreed with you after all the years ..

 

Nah, not me. But, if disagreeing about a certain family member(s) of mine being fast, knowing his stuff, and winning is something to "debate" about, I will bring the facts. :P

 

Like Nick said, they did their research and it paid dividends. But, everyone always wants to point the finger at $$$ and Esslinger. It's kind of like in golf, the old saying, "Drive for show and putt for dough". You can't win if you can't turn.

 

Tim

 

AMEN, AMEN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you crt for spelling out some of your concerns.Everybody beaches but not much said about whats needed.I also ran under Donnies rules and pulled my head twice.Everyone forgets that in 1995 the talk was how nobody can beat a fwd car with a rwd car until my brother came to cc with a rgs thunder car,a rwd Toyota and set a new record in time trials.Pappy also won races with his rwd Opel.Both of these cars were set up to race.All the Fords at that time were set up to hit the wall and keep going.You cant have both.But year after year the rules were modified at stupid drivers meetings until it became an all Ford class,kind of like now.By 1999 my car weighed 2300 #s.Even now most Fords weigh several hundred pounds more than they need.But not all.I started breaking my RF wheel and decided it was not worth it anymore.I sold my car to Sergio,from TPS.

 

Again we have achieved the same results with the same rule pervisions voted on by people whom most were not even racing this class.Again I have to weigh the pros and cons of the program as it is now.Unfortunately,right now even winning everything will not cover the cost of a nites racing for me with the 6 hour trip and cost of transponder rental.Add the cost of race fuel,fresh tires and engine mods and it becomes a considerable out of pocket cost.

 

All this added to the restrictions put on my car makes it difficult to be optomistic.My hands are tied with the open differential.By putting the camber this track needs in the front tire my foreward bite relies on a 3 inch tire patch so I get rf tire spin in the straights.In the turn the weight is transfered to the rf and body roll flatens the rf footprint so the rf wheel is dominate.This induces lf tire spin which induces a push condition.So driving at this speed requires balancing the weight throughout the turn.More HP is useless.

 

My feet are tied too with the latest restrictions on rear suspension adjustments.As anybody with suspension knowlege well agree a car with a trailing arm suspension will loose camber with body roll.3# deg of body roll equals 3 deg of camber loss.To compensate the rear camber static adjustment needs to be equal to the front to have a flat footprint as well.Nick will attest to the importance of roll couple distribution.To achieve a balanced roll couple without the static camber causes a tire footprint of about 2 inches.To stop body roll requires way too much rr spring and in turn causes an extreamly loose condition,same as a narrow footprint.Rear steer is needed because of the heavy front % which is 62%

 

Now add 200 pounds of lead to make my pound per cc way above the Fords.Steven if you remember back to poorboys days it was pound per cc.Todays weight requirments makes any car less than 2100cc way above that while allowing a stroker engine of 2800cc way below that.The extra weight on a smaller car slows down accelleration a small amount,makes the cornering more difficult to balance the crippled front and rear suspension but more importantly reduces braking ability which leads to more contact in close racing.Anotherwords driving my car is like a fat lady in hi heels running a marathon.I doubt many could drive this thing at speed and the only reason I can halfway drive it is because of the thousands of miles experience I have with this type of car.

 

But where does that leave the other front drive cas?They have no chance.It will take them years to get to the level they need to be competetive.So no fwd cars will make fast time anymore so they are not desireable.Now the rwd cars.You need a light car,2100 lbs,a big engine ( I would go with the 2800 )race tuned suspension and fresh tires to attain the top speeds of today.This makes a rwd car very expensive and again not desireable.And thats where we are today.Without the desire to win the class is doomed because thats what racing is all about.So right now you need a 5000 to 10000 car if you want to be the fastest.

 

Since we are talking about what we want,I want to go back to the original Thunder car rules adopted by Dan in 2000.Every car can be legal and no one car or brand will dominate.Because if they did someone would claim them.Its that simple.We had a claim rule,1200$ and trade, in 2005 when we raced 25 cars and had many brands.RGS went back to basic rules with a claim rule and the cars became less expensive.The dominate cars there are believe it or not Toyota Celicas.

 

Another thing thats easy to do and costs almost nothing would be to make ALL cars run an open differential.That way all the motor in the world would not help.If it takes 130HP to spin the tire,250HP does not increase lap times.Many tracks require this including Thunderhill.And dont think it cant be done.Its all about weight management.

 

The original Thunder car rules were patterned after the then very sucessful dirt modified rules.Since then they have perverted the rules to the point that IMCA modifieds are dead in south Texas.If they are not careful the sport mods will follow the same path.

 

The question is now what???A race track is a business and any business will put their money where the return is greatest.Our pay was greatest when our car count was greatest and vice verca.

 

DISCLAIMER: this reterotic happens every year and gives the racers something to do on off season.Nobody here is fighting.We are all friends with different opinions.We all know the track will make any decisions and our influence is minimal at best.Did we beat the late models on number of posts yet?? :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt
  • advertisement_alt


×
×
  • Create New...