Jump to content

Is there too many classes of racing in texas?


abrungot

Recommended Posts

Is to many classes of racing hurting the sport?

 

I think i can name them all...

 

Qtr Midget

Bando

NasKart

Legacy

Dwarf

Legend

Pro Sedan/tx Thunder

Mini/Econo Stock

Grand Stock/ Bomber

ThunderStock

ProStock

Super Stock

Sport/Limited Mods

TSRS

Pro Trucks

USST Trucks

Modified

Nascar Late Model

Link to comment
Share on other sites

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You forgot all the IMCA Classes(rules unto themselves), Hot Stock Trucks(Edna) Farm Trucks(Goliad), Street Stocks, Hot Stocks, various Sprint Car classes(ASCS/WoO/SST/WTSS) and probably others I'm forgeting........unless you're just talking asphalt racing.

 

In these times too many classes dilute the amount of money available to be spent in racing(ie; cars, teams, sponsors). Granted everyone wants a place to race, but it just lends to several classes having low car counts and drawing out race programs.

 

4 or 5 classes is ideal......Just look at Texas Thunder for that example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No

 

A lot of the drivers would not run at all if they did not run in the class they are in now. I have not seen a whole lot of drivers jumping into a new class (except Legacy drivers to TSRS late models).

 

If you want more cars in a particular class/series then attract new drivers with good close racing. This sort of racing breeds excitement, and excitement is a magnet which attracts new drivers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 different classes in a state with 4 active asphalt tracks?

And we wonder about purse and car count................

 

I laughed at a friend a few weeks ago when he stated that we just don't have the same number of racers anymore.

 

We have plenty of racers, they are just have them spread across too damn many classes. If you took all the racers we have right now and put them in 3 classes, you'd have to qualify to make a race.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

so what do you do .kill those with low car count .after spending money ..my thought goes back to when some classes got to costing to much to race with ..someone brings a dallor part in and every one wants one .or needs one just to keep up .. i have seen tracks tell divers .cant catch em .go get what they have ..bingo cost went up ..it happens in all classes .so that driver looks for something else to race .and maybe what he decided to race cost more to buy .but cheaper to run and the racers he races with may just be alittle more carefull about tearing stuff up ..so it becomes cheaper ..alot came down to no unity between drivers ..everyone wants something different ..and the one who can afford it ussually wins with getting what they want ....... the quest for more power more speed .better tires has an effect on all ..the purses have some effect on a class .though you wont get rich ....... not many drivers look at parts cost. class cost verses probable purse pay ....and overspend .just to complain the purse isnt good ..if we run local we run for what it pays .and never complain ..if we run out of town the cost is ten fold ..the purse wont even pay for fuel cost and travel exspence .but we race ..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the formula for success for a Saturday night, 3/8 mi. asphalt track. Three local classes max. One touring class ......... maybe. No class allowed on the track that can't field 14 cars. Max. 24 cars to start feature. Run heats to set the field for the feature. Start races promptly at 8:00 pm. Last race concludes not later than 11:00 PM. What could be more simple than that? That would be a quality show.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

budman, it's not the classes fault that we have a problem, it's the owners/promoters that allow for these different classes. when money was good and no-one worried about spending a buck, all the track owners wanted to have cars to keep at their track every week, so when they do the rules for their track, it's to keep the cars at their track.

 

what you have brought up is a good subject, but needs owners/promoters to fix. there should be a local TEXAS track owners/promoters meeting prior to each season, so that they can know who's doing what ( rules, schedules, classes, etc. ), if 2 tracks would come together with 10 classes of cars, split them into 2 groups, and alternate groups each week with a point fund between the 2 tracks, both tracks would have basically the same car count all season, if the tracks are managed and teched correctly, this should be good for all, it just takes 2 owner/promoters to make it happen!!! jmo

 

 

p.s. i plan to try this at hrh for the 2010 season, thanks, del ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the formula for success for a Saturday night, 3/8 mi. asphalt track. Three local classes max. One touring class ......... maybe. No class allowed on the track that can't field 14 cars. Max. 24 cars to start feature. Run heats to set the field for the feature. Start races promptly at 8:00 pm. Last race concludes not later than 11:00 PM. What could be more simple than that? That would be a quality show.

 

No offense Budman, but the 14 car count pretty much eliminates every class but the Grand Stocks doesn't it? So say the Super Stock class is eliminated. They can't sell their car because the class is no more. Then they either have to spend much more money to go to a TSRS or Modified car or go to the Trucks or go down a class. In my opinion, a better way to address the issue is: THR and HMP run alternate weekends for the most part. The classes match up for the most part. Get a common set of rules for both tracks then ANY class can run both tracks. The PROBLEM is that as in the trucks the HMP guys want the THR guys to travel there, but the HMP guys don't want to travel to THR and visa versa. The way the classes are set now is based on two things: experience and willingness to spend money. I don't think drivers will jump at the chance to go down a class if their respective class is eliminated nor will they do a happy dance to spend hard earned money to go UP a class when it's forced on them. Once again Budman, no offense meant, but I think eliminating a bunch of classes and/or not letting them run due to car counts is a recipe for a lot of closed down tracks.

 

I for one would not buy a Late Model or a Modified if the truck series was canceled. I would lose ALL the monies I've put into the truck with NO hope of recouping any of it selling the truck. It would be economically unfeasible to throw away that money and spend another $15,000 plus on another car.

 

Also, a lot of the lower classes, ie: quarter midgets, bando, dwarf, legends are driven by kids that are too young to drive the upper classes or are just starting out in racing. They are needed to groom future drivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Del, as I'm sure you know, that idea always sounds great on paper......You hit the nail on the head with "the captive racers." One of the (Asphalt) problems is the track are spread too far apart to try your idea. The travel costs are too prohibitive, at least at this point.

 

But then look at what happened with all the Houston dirt tracks "proclaiming" they would work together with common rules(didn't happen), schedules(didn't happen) and now one track trying to bully another with their money.(the only thing that HAS happened)

 

Then you have the South Texas Modified Championship Series between Texana, I-37 and South Texas.....Texana dropped the Limited Modified part due to tire issues(rules) that couldn't be resolved, I-37, which couldn't run the IMCA sanctioned Limiteds against the Outlaw Limiteds, dropped the Modifieds now and one can only ASSUME, it's because they don't want to follow the rules set up in the beginning.

 

It's great for tracks to SAY they'll work together, but pratical application usually falls flat on its face.

 

At HRH you're going to have HOT(Fri.), maybe Ennis(Sat.) or Killeen(Sat.)and Lufkin(if it's still open to try to work with in proximity to HRH. Both HOT,Texas Thunder and I-85 are IMCA sanctioned for Mods, Sportmods, I-Stocks and/or I-Hobby's....Is HRH considering going to IMCA sanction?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok... first some house keeping....

This is not ment to be a negitive post, this is a brainstorm of ideas on how to make our racing world better, or what is changing and how it effects us..

I am most familar with how THR runs and use them for examples but the concepts can be applied to many of the tracks..

 

 

 

 

Key changes this year:

Economy has not been our friend..

THR introduced Mini class, and after some delay to catch on, it is now growing... & i think next year we may see MANY more cars than current.

Tracks are under increased pressure to pay bills with many increased costs.

 

Below is a breakout example of what the car count impact is on a race track:

 

Assumption is that 3 pit passes are sold with each car in the class.

 

Bottom line view from me.. we haven't seen purse increases in classes because as it is they really aren't paying for purse as it is.

With out significant sponsorship.. if you have a 15 race season supers would need And $8K sponsor to breakeven in a year @ 12 cars per night.

post-719-1251484140.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just love these discussions. Lots of great ideas come flowing out from many different perspectives.

 

Like others have said in this thread, it's relatively easy to come up with a formula or plan or whatever that looks good on paper - makes perfect sense and all that. BUT.. and that's capped on purpose... BUT nobody has the magic wand to make it all happen like it is on paper.

 

I love the one about common rules and cooperative scheudling.

 

Maybe I just didn't try hard enough, but not all that long ago I spent a whole lot of time and money forming the Texas Track Owners and Promoters Association (TTOPA) which incorporated many of the goals stated in some of the posts in this thread. I developed a set of agreed upon bylaws, had a business plan drawn up, sought legal counsel to legally incorporate the organization, had a series of very productive meetings with the asphalt track owners (except HMP which, at the time, was not paying a purse for any of its classes and thus did not fit well into the organization's economic parameters), and thought we were onto something good - until a couple of members dropped a monkey wrench or two into the gears.

 

The next sound you heard was the toilet flushing TTOPA down the hole.

 

Regarding the number of classes, keep in mind that at this point in the history of stock car racing in Texas, the drivers have the upper hand. The threat of "I ain't never coming back to this track unless you see things my way" is very real. Track operators do not have the luxury of calling the bluff since car counts are already down at most tracks. It's easier to just give in to their demands than lose a team. Racers know very well the power of that threat and use it all the time. But if the car counts were fantastic, it's much easier to stand on principle and deny the demand knowing that most of the time it's just a bluff anyway.

 

Another factor that has already been mentioned is that during low car count eras it is very tempting to make rules that only fit your track or sactioning body. That way you have "captive" racers who can't just pack up and go race down the road a bit.

 

By the way, I still have all the TTOPA paperwork and would be willing to give it another whirl if the Texas owners/promoters really wanted to come together in a neutral environment.

 

Nick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to agree with those who feel there are too many classes racing here in Texas but I sure would not want to be the one who had to decide which ones go and which ones stay. But I will add this thought. At a recent event where they ran 8 different classes one night, there were approximately 80 drivers in the pits yet only one class had more than 12 cars present. This is not to say that if they had only 4 classes running that the same 80 drivers would shown up but the liklihood that if there were less classes to compete for those who want to race they will chose the class that suits them best. Maybe those same 80 would not show up but I go so far as to say possibly 60 of them would. The economy right now is not helping matters but I think we might get used to it because its not going to get any better anytime soon so possibly the route to take is to take a good hard look at the classes that are being ran with the thought in mind to consolidate rather than eliminate.

Over the years I saw many tracks survive on running two and three clases of cars on a weekly basis with each class running about 4 races. A heat, a special race like a helmet dash or australian pursuit, a semi feature and a feature event. Fans were happy with what they saw and came back for more. I've yet to see where running multiple classes lures in additional fans other than those that come with the competitors. With numerous classes at best you see a heat and a feature in that class and too often the heat had the same cars as the feature has. Yawn!

I really never experienced tracks with so many classes running as I have here in Texas and I will add that the racing here in not any better than places where I saw them running three classes and maybe an occasional touring class. I believe that competition was a bit keener at the tracks with fewer classes because of the higher car counts and these tracks are still running this way to this very day. I'm just throwing in my dimes worth here and I hope you can respect that as I respect the fact that promotors have some real tough decisions to make during these trying days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I say everyone buy a NASKART and lets all go racing!!! you want close competition...got it....you want drafting...got it....you want cheap...got it...you want fast....got it....you want purse money...got it!!! Could you imagine how crazy we could drive Nick with 40 karts and him trying to see the numbers on them?!?! lol Luv ya Nick!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nick,I think you are 100% correct.Nothing any racer can do will affect the outcome of how a tracx is run.The final say is and always has been in the hands of the owner/promoter.Its been my experience that most owners/promoters do this only part time and have other jobs.I really dont see anything changing until the show is expanded and the track becomes something more than a Sat nite event.It should be an outdoor sports arena.The promoting job should be full time.What most tracks would benifit from is a professional event promoter to work with the race director to create a show that will sell itself.All I hear is how important it is to get that show over as early as possible,not how many things can be added to expand the show.If people were so worried about getting home at 10pm,they would be better off to stay home.I guarntee you the other forms of entertainment are working to keep customers as long as possible.A slow race program is not the answer,rather added forms of entertainment.And have something on Friday,Sat,and Sunday,not necessarly all racing.

 

Too many classes?YES.Too little viriaty? Definately. Boaring? Depends who you ask. Try asking the ones who dont go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

we ran imca in 2001-2005, in the south part of texas, imca has never really caught on. mostly because, the dirt tracks in south texas liked the ump rules ( more expensive drivetrain ) and you had owners putting more money into a their cars just to win a $550. purse, the only ones winning was the big pocket owners, with this happening, some tracks tried imca, for some unknown reason, sactions just don't work in the houston area.

 

to me, racing is a competitive sport and the best racing shows are when the rules pretty much on an equal playing field for each class, when you let big pockets buy a win, i is not good for the sport or exciting for the fans.

 

as far as 2 tracks working together, they do it up north all the time. trouble is, houston area tracks have never came up with an idea between 2 tracks or tried anything to make something work, i think if you have 10/12 different classes, split them in half, one track run half the classes and the other track run the rest and then alternate every week with a point fund between the two tracks and share the sponsorship/advertizement with each other, it could work, problem is, nobody wants to try it. i would be willing to work with another track in this reguard, what do we have to lose? both tracks would have equal car count, a win/win deal!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I say everyone buy a NASKART and lets all go racing!!! you want close competition...got it....you want drafting...got it....you want cheap...got it...you want fast....got it....you want purse money...got it!!! Could you imagine how crazy we could drive Nick with 40 karts and him trying to see the numbers on them?!?! lol Luv ya Nick!!

 

Is there room for a V8 in one of those little karts? :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I say everyone buy a NASKART and lets all go racing!!! you want close competition...got it....you want drafting...got it....you want cheap...got it...you want fast....got it....you want purse money...got it!!! Could you imagine how crazy we could drive Nick with 40 karts and him trying to see the numbers on them?!?! lol Luv ya Nick!!

 

Is there room for a V8 in one of those little karts? :lol:

 

 

Just build yourself a super modified Chase and make it look like a NASKART. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...