Sealed Motor Program

[racedude]

Obviously it is not level playing field as far as horsepower. Wonder if ASA will follow the GAS series on banning some of their motors and Houston Pro Late Model Class etc etc

 

GAS Announces Engine Ban Out of Competitive Fairness

 

McGunegill Ford Sealed Motors No Longer Allowed

 

http://www.51sportsracing.com/2007_stories...e_ban_4_26.html

[Colt15]

3 of mcguenegill were dynoed after san antonio.and everything was ok. GAS has been after them all year. They just cant except the fact that the two guys running them were already the two best drivers in the series. Last year I think they won 1/2 the races without a mcgunegill.

[rebelracewriter]

I found that same story on whowon.com

 

So Colt, what you're saying is basically the rich got richer. LOL

 

From what I was reading it sounds like they ALL aren't created equal. Would it be possible to dyno one before purchasing it to get the "pick of the litter", so to speak????

[landlord]

Reading the artical,it sounds like the wrong parts are in the motor.I just find it hard to believe with as much as McGunegill has loose (there sealed engine building license )so to speak that they would do that.I would think if they really are building cheater motors ASA would stop letting them build.Somethings up,I want to here McGunegills side of the story.The fords are making alot of horspower and you know thats giging the chevy guys(I know because I am a chevy guy and it gigs me)

Edited April 27, 2007 by landlord

[Guest turborice]

McGunnegill is in ASA pocket. Dont you remember when they took a motor to them last year to be checked, it was dynoed and found 100% legal. The builder, Tesar was banned anyway for no reason. If the McGunnegill in not an advantage, why are teams paying several thousand dollars more for them? If you are going to have a crate motor class, let everyone get them from the same place and have a claimer rule. I believe the GAS tech officials before the ASA bunch. ASA banned a engine builder "because they could", even though the motor checked out fine.

[hray]

You need to read the article in this month's Stock Car Racing mag. They dyno'd crates when delivered and after 4 races. They did the same with the "built" motors. They all started out about the same HP, but after 4 races the crates had lost about 20 - 25 HP compared to no loss for the builts. They then rebuilt the crates (line bored, hone plate honed, balanced, etc.). It dyno'd back to normal and stayed there after 4 races - in fact it maintained HP for the whole season.

ASA let the Chevy crates run 1.6 ratio rockers, so they are making as much HP as the Fords, but the Fords are 75 lbs lighter.

[txtom]

McGunnegill is in ASA pocket. Dont you remember when they took a motor to them last year to be checked, it was dynoed and found 100% legal. The builder, Tesar was banned anyway for no reason.

 

Which particular engine was that?

 

It certainly was not the Alamo 200 winner.

[C_Malin]

Reading the artical,it sounds like the wrong parts are in the motor.I just find it hard to believe with as much as McGunegill has loose (there sealed engine building license )so to speak that they would do that.I would think if they really are building cheater motors ASA would stop letting them build.Somethings up,I want to here McGunegills side of the story.The fords are making alot of horspower and you know thats giging the chevy guys(I know because I am a chevy guy and it gigs me)

 

We would like to set the record straight regarding the events that lead to the revocation of our ASA Engine Re-builder Certification.

 

The start of the controversy was over Jake Ryan’s Ford. The engine was removed at the track and sent to Mc Gunnegill Engine Performance for inspection. The engine was run on the Dyno while I was not present. The numbers presented to me were higher than what our Dyno showed when it left our shop. In reviewing the Dyno sheet given to me, the date was 11-25-2005, but the date it was actually run at Mc Gunnegill Engine Performance was 4-6-2006.

 

The next step was for me to go to Mc Gunnegill Engine Performance for the tear down. There was nothing found showing anything illegal and the win was legitimately given to Ryan. Tesar Engineering was cleared of any illegal actions. A short time later, we received a certified letter from Mr. Varney that revoked our certification as a re-builder. Mr. Varney felt that we were too expensive and took everything to “the maximum limit of what’s acceptable”. There are necessary components for a car to be race ready that Mr. Varney is not taking into consideration.

 

 

(Below is correspondence between Mr. Varney and Tesar Engineering.)

 

 

Our intention with all of our customers is to provide them with a completely dressed, rebuilt engine. There was some confusion on the cost of our rebuilds. The cost to rebuild the engines and the cost to accessorize the engines are invoiced together so it appears to be higher than the cost of a new engine from the manufacturer. The fact is if you take out the accessories, our prices are in line with the other reputable engine builders.

 

We presented Mr. Varney with our records, which included all Dyno results and itemized invoices, and asked for a public response. We have had no other contact with Mr. Varney since this incident, though we have made several attempts.

 

Building a complete engine is like building a complete racecar; there are many bits and pieces that are needed in order to run. We are selling these pieces such as clutches, bellhousing, starters, alternators, carburetors, distributors, wires and water pump to name a few of the necessary bits. In regards to taking things to the “maximum limit of what’s acceptable”, this is an absolute inaccuracy. We have parameters that we follow and we make sure that all of our engines fall well within the rules required by ASA.

 

 

To our valued customers: We take pride in being an ethical company and regret that Mr. Verney’s decision is preventing us from giving you the quality service that comes with every Tesar Engine. If you should decide to move to another series, we hope you would consider working with us again.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Mike Tesar

[tqj3]

I thought taking things to "the maximum limit of what's acceptable" was the whole point of racing, whether you are building an engine, building a chassis or driving the thing.

As for getting bounced without a finding of error or wrongdoing, seems as if that might open the door for a lawsuit...

[Bandit]

I know of people that have dynoed the chev v.s ford and there is a difference. if I could afford it, I would run a ford.

[landlord]

Racing has always been political,but I swear it's getting worse!!!!!!!!! Surely there is a racing attorney out there somewhere that would take that case!!!!!!

[hray]

The DT347 Ford makes 10 - 12 HP more than the Chevy, but more important (to me anyway) it's 75 lbs lighter than the Chevy. Bandit hit the nail on the head....you better have a bank roll to run one ($1200 more initial purchase and way more to overhaul).

[landlord]

Don't it make more torque also.

[Guest turborice]

Here is a email from the man. It is his series, he can do what he wants, when he wants and how he wants. Period. The Gas series is probably a better choice.

 

rom: Ron Varney [mailto:rvarney@asalatemodels.com]

Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 9:18 AM

To: 'Jan Tesar'

Cc: 'Sandy Varney'

Subject: ASALMS Letter

Importance: High

 

Mike:

 

 

 

I have received your fax, and frankly I still have nothing else to say regarding this issue. I never said you cheated any motor, I’m sure everything was within the proper specs and tolerances. However, since this is a privately held company, the decision lies solely with me. Frankly I feel the prices you charge and the taking of everything to the maximum limit of what is acceptable to be unacceptable. I have heard from competitors that have been charged by you, more to rebuild an engine than you could buy a new one for. I am very close to doing away with the rebuild program all together, this is what GM wants me to do. No engine would be allowed to be opened if it breaks, oh well sorry about your luck, buy a new one. You may yet see this happen. As I stated in my letter this decision is final and up for discussion or appeal, and I wish you all the best if you decide to pursue this further. These are the last comments I will make regarding this issue.

[racedude]

It appears to me that the GAS series is making a reasonable stand - the Pro Late Models were created so ALL racers had a fair advantage as far as horsepower and it became more of a drivers game. Now less than 2 years into it - we learn that "expensive" ford built motors are a big advantage over the GM crates - ASA has put themself in a position that they can not follow the GAS Series because they would lose half their field of drivers. I am glad that GAS officials let the truth be known.

[racer61]

and this was the answer to super late-model racing.

 

 

Were saving money now. First we shelfed a 30,000 dollar motor for a 12,000 dollar one.

Next we shelfed the 12,000 dollar motor for the gm crate motor.

Which for the right price can be modified to gain more hp and torque.

And Im sure the "blue oval" can be adjusted the same way.

So how many of you "crate racers" will fess up and tell us the truth on just how much have you sunk into a

"crate motor" to be competitive?

[landlord]

A McGunegill 604 chevy cost $6100,Still a far cry from $30,000 or even $12,000.A ford motor cost about $800 more than a chevy.

Edited May 1, 2007 by landlord

[Matthew Stichmann]

If people would realise that crate motors are not good for the sport, all they are is a band aid for a bigger issue. With real super late model racing more power is not allways better. I ran all over florida in the sun belt series and did not have the big motor and the only places whare it was noticable was at 1/2 mile tracks and bigger. Also with less ristrictions the bitching and moaning goes way down because it becomes what you can afford not what every one else is doing, and when it comes to crate engines there is allways ways around the rules. The year that Jonny Sauter won the asa championship his engine was illegal I know that for a fact! Also J.C. Baite's engine was illegal and Sauters engine went back to Linginfelter too be dynoed and inspected and they found the seals had not been brokened. But they had. So long story short some one will always compramise the rules regardless of money. That is why the less rules there are the less rules can bee broken.

[landlord]

If you don't have the big budget to afford the 30 to 40 thousand dollar motor the Pro Late models are sweet.The SLM class is dwindling and the PLM class is thriving so the crates must not be all bad. P.S.If I could afford it I would on a fire breather!!!!

[Bandit]

I know that there is going to cheating no matter what the rules are but, I still think the crates are the way to go. I would like to see them start to dyno more of the cars to help keep them honest.

[Pacecar]

McGunegill response to Georgia Asphalt Series ban on the Ford Sealed Engine.

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

APRIL 30, 2007

 

Last week, Series Director Micky Cain announced that the McGunegill Ford sealed motor was banned from further competition in the Georgia Asphalt Series, effective April 28, 2007. In doing so he made a number of representations which are incorrect and/or misleading: we feel it is imperative that we address them in order to set the record straight.

 

McGunegill Engine Performance previously provided to Mr. Cain, at his request, build and tech sheets covering our Ford sealed motor. The camshaft used in our engine in manufactured by Ford Motor Company as part number F303, which is the same as is supplied in the Ford Blue Oval motor. Mr. Cain examined three cams and found that one appeared to be out of specification. It would seem that the responsibility for this condition thus rests with Ford, rather than McGunegill. Prior to Mr. Cain’s announcement, we had only recently acquired the equipment necessary to perform computer camshaft analyses in-house so that, in the future, we can personally assure competitions, promoters and sanctioning bodies of the accuracy of all the cams we provide.

 

Mr. Cain also questioned the condition of the cylinder heads on our Ford sealed motor, implying that we had altered them in some fashion. We asked the he contact the manufacturer, DART Machinery, for verification, which he did. When DART’s engineering staff recommended that the heads be sent to them for evaluation, Mr. Cain apparently replied that the owners of the two engines in question would not do so. DART notified us of the situation, and we contacted these owners, Russell Fleeman and Bubba Pollard. They immediately shipped the heads to DART, Mr. Fleeman shipped his by “red label” to expedite delivery. DART’s examination has already confirmed that his heads have not been altered since they originally left DART’s facility; we are confident that the results for Mr. Pollard’s heads will be the same.

 

Concerning Mr. Cain’s allegation of variances between different blocks, McGunegill Engine Performance utilizes production-type tooling to machine them. As with any such setup, a certain amount of variation (within design tolerance) is inherent in the process. We take this into account, however, to ensure that the completed block assemblies are within specification, and we question the accuracy of Mr. Cain’s assertions that the GM and Ford Blue Oval crate motor blocks, which are machined in a similar manner, do not share the same sort of variations.

 

We recognize that the Georgia Asphalt Series may certainly change its rules at any time and for any reason. We will not stand silent, however, when the integrity of our products, and more importantly our company, is wrongly impugned as justification for such a rule change. McGunegill Engine Performance remains dedicated to providing the highest quality products and services to our customers; if you have any questions or require further information, please feel free to call us at (765) 282-1913.

[hray]

McGunegill just wasn't paying enough kickback to GAS

I don't see why any series has to be so restrictive as to require only 1 motor. Why not do it like they do in the northeast. You can run a crate with the same rules as around here or you can run a built motor with a 4412 and chipped at 6800 rpm. They are equal and one is just as likely to win on any given nite as the other. Teams that want to build their own, can. And those that think they are saving money with a crate, have at it.

BTW, look at the ProMods at HMP. The wins are about evenly split with Randy's formula and he allows 3 catagories of motors (crates, 2 brl [TAMS], and unrestricted).

Edited May 1, 2007 by hray

[Pacecar]

from Speed51 website:

 

Ford Issues Recall Notice on Late Model Sealed Engines

 

Some Powerplants May Have Cam Bearing Issue

The following is a service bulletin sent from Ford Motorsports to their distributors. It may have an effect on short track teams that run Ford crate engines.

 

M-6007-D347SR Service Bulletin

 

Attn: Ford Racing Performance Parts Distributors

 

Ford Racing has recognized an assembly issue found in some M-6007-D347SR sealed crate engines. A number of these engines were assembled with improper cam bearings. This results in valve-train instability above 5800rpm and can result in accelerated wear as well as engine failure if not serviced immediately.

You must notify your customers to check their D347SR sealed engines immediately!

 

Ford Racing Performance Group is issuing a service recall for all affected 347 sealed crate engines. This issue affects a small number of the 347SR engines which are built with the R302 block. Any prior D347 engines with the Sportsman B50 block are not affected.

 

 

If the engine is affected Ford Racing will arrange for pickup of the engine and all shipping to and from our build facility. Turnaround time for transit and repair is estimated at 9 business days though we will try to limit that to a minimum. Engines will be thoroughly checked and any worn components will be replaced as well as any gaskets and seals.

 

To initiate this program please contact any customers who purchased am M-6007-D347SR and provide them the following instructions:

 

Determine if engine is exhibiting a loss of power at approximately 5800rpm. If you are unsure we can assist in diagnosis.

Contact Marty at the Ford Racing Technical Call Center, 800-FORD-788

 

Have the engine serial number with you for confirmation that this is an affected engine.

 

You will be asked to provide your address, phone number and best times for pickup of the engine.

 

You will be contacted with a pickup time.

 

Engines are expected to average 3 days transit each way and no more than 3 days at our engine facility.

 

If you have experienced engine failure and have the bearings from the rebuild we will work with you on an individual basis to determine if this was caused by improper cam bearings.

 

Customers must contact Ford Racing by May 30th!

 

This is a top priority for us and down time to the racer will be minimized.

 

We appreciate your patience and concern regarding this issue.

 

If you have any questions please contact Marty, 800-FORD-788

[turbotoddie]

A McGunegill 604 chevy cost $6100,Still a far cry from $30,000 or even $12,000.A ford motor cost about $800 more than a chevy.

Sorry but that is an apple vs orange argument. The 6k motor is a far cry from producing the HP and reliablility that the 30k or even the 12k(with the same carb). I am not a fan of the crates because it leaves room for impropriety everytime someone doesn't win. Unfortunately, I don't see a good solution for a travelling series. For a local program, a reputable builder could be tabbed to design an engine program that is somewhere between a crate and an unrestricted builder option. But, at the local level, some people have engine sponsors and telling them to go buy someone else's motor is not going to happen. So, we are back to ground zero. FWIW, engine seals can be purchased, same as casting numbers can be altered, same as a hundred other ways of cheating.

 

my .02

 

turbotoddie

[landlord]

The crate motor is more reliable and has less maintenance,ask anyone who has owned both.As far as impropriety,thats what protests are for.