I.M.C.A, minnies

[thumper]

Did you guys know that I.M.C.A has a mini stock division called Sport Compacts?Its front wheel drive box stock with a 1500 whole car claim less safty equipment.Looks similar to the 1992 Thunder car rules we started with at RGS that was so successful.Not too far from the CC Texas Thunder rules except for the engines that grew into a 20 plus field.Strange that the most successful santioning body in short track history sees that the key for mini success comes from using modern cars.To see this go to the I.M.C.A.website.I dont know how to put the adress here but maybe someone can do it for me.Is this the future or a passing failure?The only gar I know that would be legal is Slysnakes Neon.I wonder if since the dirt track is gonsidering going santion I.M.C.A.anyone there has looked at adding this class.I know this would not work at CC Speedway because its almost an all Ford except for a few who want to "Bug"the Fords. .Any thoughts?

[HiTech]

lol bug the fords .so are you saying .you dont want to race against fords anymore gb .to much fer you .why dont you just start an all fwd class yourself .since that seems to be the future .but as of this moment there are alot rwd still running down here , but your right someday thats the future .maybe .. for me i like running against the fwd .s and if it comes down to haveing to go to fwd then it will be time for me to retire . i dont have anything against fwd per say its just not my bag .eventhow i drive one on the street . but if you can get an fwd class going go for it .there are more rwd now than fwd .that i agree rwd will someday vanish .but it will be a few years ,heck even the rwd vw.s are starting to out number the fwdS . something aboult bug infestation .lol .ps i remember 10 years ago that the rwd.s were dead .and the future was fwd.s hmmm .just goes to show you .they are tough to kill .

[neon14]

thumper, is this what you are talking about?

 

http://www.imca.com/rules.php?divisionid=14

[HiTech]

pureSTOCK MINNIES BORING .

[stsracer]

Thats dumb theres not much of the fwd drives that are stock anyways. Just keep it the way it is and quit tryin to make it easier for your self to win.

[HiTech]

Thats dumb theres not much of the fwd drives that are stock anyways. Just keep it the way it is and quit tryin to make it easier for your self to win.

LOL YOU KNOW HOW US OLD POEPLE ARE WE SLOW DOWN SO WE WANT TO SLOW YOU DOWN .SO.S WE CAN SEE YOU .

[Shawn B]

heres (Will's car) Imca car

[neon14]

 

watch out fords here comes G.B.

[neon14]

I know this pic is black and white but is that a yellow bug in last place?

[HiTech]

Will are you saying that is gb.s pipe dream .someone best wake him up .for it will be awhile before that dream comes to reality. but now on a serious note i think gb may make a good promotor .what do you think .of what i dont know .jk .... gb is always talking on what other series do and dont get me wrong some are good .but this is south texas and we are hard headed and want to do it our way .and so far it still works .can two tracks run thunders in one town .i dont know .

[Shawn B]

I know this pic is black and white but is that a yellow bug in last place?

 

YES I THINK YOUR RIGHT

 

too many 77s scare me

[neon14]

G.B. has been promoting mini stock racing in south texas for a long time, I cant figure G.B. out because one day he is promoting stock 4 cylinder racing and then the next day he is wanting to have an outlaw mini race. He just wants to race. As far as two tracks in corpus, that was not the best thing that could have happend. jmo

[HiTech]

when he talks aboult stock racen he is[ sober ]when he talks aboult the next he. well you know . lol just picking on you gb . we know you mean well .atliest for you happiness anyway .

[Hartracn19]

I don't know, I think GB has a valid point. Those drivers in the Thunders and TPS will probably not move down to a stock class, but it would sure be a cost effective way for the fan in the stand to start racing. If one of our tracks started a pure stock mini class, that would open the door to a lot of new racers who want to try it out without a lot of costs. When they see they like it they could move up to the Thunders or TPS. I think the idea has merit and with IMCA sanctioning, it could be the cream for the track. All across the country, the stock mini's have shown to be the largest (inexpensive) class race after race. It could be set up for a trophey only, with the top three getting a trophey. Since the cars are mini, give that class a $5 break on pit passes. I think by the end of the second year, the tracks would have to hold multiple heats to see who would make the main. Atleast that is what has happened across the US...

[thumper]

Thanks for the responses guys.Fact is I started this thread to see if we can rationally discuss our sport.Seeing what is happening around the country is an important part of understanding what 4 cyl racing is facing in general.I love that photo with all the cars,it reminds me of CC Speedway when we had a full field of cars.I saw this from the back many times.There is nothing more exciting than going 4 wide.I was lucky enough to do that kind of racing in modifieds too.When the track was really dry slick at RGS we ran 4 wide with each groove driving completely different.

Now about minnies.This is my opinion only.Fact is there is an opening for both a stock class and a modified class of cars.AND a place for the upper level of race like Pro Sedans to be like the NASCAR level.What I would like to see is a mostly stock class that has a multiple varity of cars competeing,kind of like IMCA is proposing,not restricted to FWD.They should have a purse,kind of like whats available now.There is no money out there at any track that could be considered serious.Next would be a modified class for real hotrods.Maybe turbos,nitrus,drfinately methanoal burners with racing tires,racing suspensions etc.These cars should be as fast as the V8 cars and sound like jets.And the purse should reflect this level with real money.As the flagship of the class the Pro Sedans,with a very formal blueprint.I believe this class should be a traveling series,time trials but with a long race like 100 laps so they are truly the cream of the crop with cars that can easily go the distance with drivers that can handle themselves.With 2 classes of cars to draw from getting plenty of cars here should be no problem.None of this will ever happen because most track owners are living in the past,same old worn out shows and yesterday thinking that only a V8 car is really a race car.And too many of our own people cant even discuss rationally the future of our own without the negative attitudes that say," Im better than you "For those of you that can use a computer,go to 4M net or other sites around the country and see what your breathern are facing.There are common denomoters,the line between the stock cars and the modified cars is always being breached,NO track is paying any real money for 4 cyl cars and there is always major complaining about the rules.

If there is any hope that 4 bangers will someday be taken serious it will lie in a sanctioning body like I.M.C.A, to add the creditability and organization that we need to get the respect we deserve.It will never happen with the drivers,the V8 guys would just as well get rid of us altogether,and the tracks will never pay us enough to flourish.In case you havent noticed,nobody who is in a position to help us has ever offered any positive help.

As far as 2 tracks running in CC at the same time,I doubt it will work.CC Speedway is trying to turn the clock back 10 years to a time when racing was for fun.I hope them success but I see problems with making a restricted class like Thunders racing against full race cars like Pro Sedan cars.Most PS cars will not do it but there will be some who see an easy way to win races,With the claim rule gone,there will be someone spend enough to be in another playing field,Then the fighting will start again with weekly rule changes.Been there and done that.I hope Im wrong but I see the same handfull of cars with no new teams even wanted.At the dirt track they are running the same kind of cars but the cost to be competetive far outweighs the purse offered.The difference between them and CC Speedway is they have so many choices of cars,I dont see anyone spending a great deal on a mini with the same money as a limited.The IMCA deal would be a huge advantage for them if they were wanting cars.I dont see eather track really trying to get a 4 cyl class fired up.Without help from the track,not much will change.

There is an effort here at RGS to revive minnies.Its too soon to see if the track owner is going to get onboard with thiis effort.On a personal note this gives me 3 choices as to where I might race.I will see which place will be the most affordable for me.I have been paying all my racing expenses with purse money and I dont see that changing.Racing here will save me about 75$ if fuel so that is a consideration.I do wish the best to all you guys and hope all 3 tracks fill up with 4 cyl cars to look like that picture.Thanks Will for posting that adress because Im not sure Oldtimer can spell IMCA LOL I see a Pro Sedan Neon weighing less than I have to making all those Ford guys cry at GCC Speedway and change the rules.Go for it Dude,the doors open for you.I would. Thumper

BTW,the original defination of a Thunder car was almost exactly what IMCA is saying except for FWD restriction and a full cage.

[HiTech]

gb that gave me hartburn19 yes i can spell imca just i wont do it in front of you . alot said .but the main thing is some tracks dont think they are real race cars .and noone is watching them . wrong .sas thought enough aboult them to put them on a 8 race show .and kyle still runs them . aswell as cc and sts .i would love to go back to a stock car for fun .but the imca that i cant spell is for fwd only .. the minnies or thunders have always had to fight for respect .you and i are used to that .and alot of it is our fault aswell .for you want what you want and us aswell .its hard to get rules equal for such diversity in the class .so for the most part we i you and others have kept them alive . do we need imca .maybe .do we need to be more open a big yes .as for as cc they may need our cars to help build that class back up .and as for sts .i hope not . i hope it can be done with out our cars ..but at the same time you know street tires and our horse power dont mix to good . you run faster with what you have against us with your tires . .we run slower with the same tire . problem set up and power differents .

[neon14]

G.B. that was a marathon post lol! Its gonna be tomorrow before I can post back on that one. Neon Will

[HiTech]

G.B. that was a marathon post lol! Its gonna be tomorrow before I can post back on that one. Neon Will

WILL still waiting for your response . .. tic toc .tic toc .tic toc .

[neon14]

Well......you want to know what I think. imca rules would be great for a track that never ran mini stocks before. I also think the track would have to help promote it. The cars would be cheap to build. Those rules are made more for entry level racing. Most of us have been racing for awhile, some of us for longer than many of us have been alive I dont want to go backwards with my racing. I would build one of these cars for my son in 5 years, that would be cool. Corpus is prolly stuck with mini's the way they are, no motor rules is easy for the track. Street tires keeps things under control somewhat out on the racetrack. The only thing I would change at ccms and the dirt track, nobodys going to like this, is to use a narrower tire. Say 6" wide. That would maybe even things out alittle bit more and make even better racing. This is jmo on this day at this hour. Tomorrow I may have a different opinion hehe Neon Will

[stsracer]

6" tires.....................................Dude you must have smoke way to much wacky stuff. lol

[Shawn B]

if we go 5" that stock for the bugs

[HiTech]

6 inch tires .will one race and no cars left .

[thumper]

Actually,Will you have a valid point,limiting tire size would be a way to allow less expensive cars to be competetive with the hot rods we have now.Thats exactly what IMCA does with modifiedsWhenThey began this a car could only use about 350 HP so a little motor could run with a monster engine.With evolution now they can put down about 550 HP or more due to rule changes and science.This has led to a decrease in cars at local tracks.In Austraulia,the big deal a few years ago was big block engines and skinny tires.It has been prooven many times that a true outlaw form of cars does not work.Entry level cars will flourish if promoted properly.And a real driver can race on any tire or any track surface if all the cars are doing the same thing.

It still looks like we have no answer on how to increase car count.To race up front at eather CC track you will need a fast car,period.The purse does not justify such a car,Therefore I dont see many new teams comming to this division.What we really need is a way to get entry level cars started here.One thing that needs to be adressed is how to help an automatic car be a little more competetive since most new cars are automatic.Maybe a bigger tire for them or something.No automatic car can run with a standard car of the same type.It does seem like we have what we have for now so lets do the best we can.

Will if I understand the ruler correctly,you can run your Pro Sedan Neon exactly as it is for Pro Sedans here at CC Speedway.That means a locked diff,pound per cc full race suspen,etc with your street tires and I know nobody can touch you.This is a great way to fill your trophy case.No claim rule eather so nobody can stop you.With only a dozen Pro Sedan races a year you can win another dozen here with only a tire change.If you dont consider this you are wasting a golden oppourtunity.Dont tell anybody though,keep it a secret.

Oldtimer,you keep going on about how you cant race on street tires.The only thing a bigger and better tire does is hide a defency in eather a cars handeling or a driver.If you were smart you would have one of your cars running at CC Speedway on street tires all the time to tune the chassis.When it is perfect,you can put the slicks on and really fly.Theres no such thing as too much power.Thats why cars have a gas pedal.You will never beat the fast guys until you start thinking like them.Remember NASCAR guys are always testing.I would race with 5 inch tires and 300 HP if thats what it took.The smaller the tire,the better the car and driver has to be.Anybody who has run on a super dry slick dirt track will tell you the same thing.If you have ever watched me in practice you will have noticed I practice on the bottom,the middle,and against the wall.In a race you might have to race there or follow somebode forever,Of course the groove is fastest but not always available.Same thing with tires,It doesnt matter as long as its the same for everybody.Putting slicks or even 10 inch tires would not change the running order of the cars.Only makes everybody faster.Everybody knows this.

I also know theres no hope of ever getting a real purse without the car count.Doc knew this and paid us more than anyone else has and got the most cars.But just like President Nixon,you know the rest of the story.Pro Sedans have done a great job recruting and with money but if I remember correctly from the results sheet of last year they averaged 15 cars per race.And the fast tires led to some serious wrecks.So what is the answer?I dont like IMCAs deal eather because is is designed for beginners.But it close in what is needed for entry level cars except for the FWD restriction.I dont personally care what level the cars are,I just want to have a real purse.We got paid 50 dollars more in 1985 at Riverside than eather track is paying now.And it sure costs a lot more now. JMO

[NeilTPS]

GB: I read your post. I did the math and will comment on a few of your items:

 

GB: You said, "Pro Sedans have done a great job recruting and with money" Thank you ! We have worked hard on the purses in behalf of TPS members. $1,000 to win was posted and paid at the last two 2006 Texas Pro Sedans races. In all races, the entire field was paid, even 24th place. For the upcoming March 3rd race at San Antonio Speedway, we will post a field purse of over $4,000 with $500 to win.

 

GB: Then you said, "but if I remember correctly from the results sheet of last year they (TPS) averaged 15 cars per race." You need to do your math a little more correctly. In twelve 2006 races, TPS came to the tracks with a total of 232 cars. The TPS car count average correctly calculates to 19.333 cars per race (not 15 as you stated). On three occasions TPS had 23 or 25 cars at races.

 

GB: You then stated your opinion, "and the fast tires led to some serious wrecks." Since I don't think you were present at any TPS races and I officiated all races last year, my judgment was that in no case were the 8" Hoosier Racing Tires at fault.

 

GB: These are the facts from the October 29, 2006 Post Season Newsletter which was sent to all TPS members, including you !

 

Neil Upchurch

Race & Administrative Director

Texas Pro Sedans

[ratdaddy]

In case you havent noticed,nobody who is in a position to help us has ever offered any positive help.

 

1. CRAP!

2. YOU HAVE A PLACE TO RACE.

3. IF YOU WANT TO RUN FOR MORE MONEY, GO WHERE THE MONEY IS, TPS OR EVEN FURTHER OUT OF STATE.

4. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE RULES OR THE PURSE, FIND A PLACE THAT SUITES YOU BEST.

 

I don't have any big secrets or solutions, but what I do know is that for any of this to work everyone will have to work together v-8's 4cylinders, FWD, RWD, or no drive to make this work for everyone. More "Drivers Expo's" car shows and as much public awareness as we can get. I better get back to work or at least look like I am working. I will post agian if needed. I usually keep out of these situations but after a while it gets old and feel like I needed to say something. Thanks for letting me vent.