Pacecar Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 There seems to be a disturbing trend for racetrack rules to require car minimum weight and weight percentages at the END of a racing event. At some tracks, only the top finishers are checked for compliance. Perhaps this rule and procedure makes it easier and faster for race track officials to tech. Supposedly, the racing program is not delayed due to ALL cars having to go across the scales BEFORE the race event. I prefer that ALL cars be weighed just PRIOR to the race event. This ensures that the guy that finished 4th or 5th was legal on weight. There's more assurance that the winning racer that took the checkered flag is legal ... with respect to weight. Nothing is more disappointing to fans and the drivers when someone is DQ'd after the race for 2 lbs underweight. It's difficult to predict fuel consumption on feature events when yellow flag laps don't count. Even harder for special race events for extra laps (and for drivers/cars that don't run regularly at a particular track to have experience data on fuel consumption). Race track tech and logistics can be adjusted to allow for ALL cars to be weighed PRIOR to a race event, without delaying the show. It's been done before. What's your opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 My approach to the weight issue is building my car to weigh the minimum weight amount without myself in the car and on an empty tank.... That way the only extra weight I will be carrying onto the track is my body weight and how ever many gallons of fuel we run for a particular event... I am not sure how effective this will be as far as car performance, but my mentallity on this is that my 200 lbs and maybe 25-50 lbs of fuel wont make that big a difference in how fast I can run my roadrunner around SAS... What ever the difference its something I am willing to deal with as a rookie next year and tweak the next season or towards the end of my first season... Reason I am taking this approach is, I would rather be totally legal on weight with no doubts then have to deal with a DQ if I manage to win a race... And this is going to sound like a stupid question but how big a difference can 250lbs really make in a performance issue????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt15 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 And this is going to sound like a stupid question but how big a difference can 250lbs really make in a performance issue????? quite a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 To add to my previous post on my car, I know we are going to have to add weight to the car to make it legal anyway even if its full and me in the seat... I know without added weight we will definately be too light... This brings into account the ability to adjust the added weight either up or down depending on conditions if I am not mistaken so like you said in my case if 250lbs make big time difference then this could just be adjusted for by removing some of the add on weight correct??? If I am correct in this then you would have quite a bit of wiggle room to adjust weight but still comming in over the minimum as long as you dont try to cut it too close.... Basically my approach is better safe then sorry for the sake of a few pounds!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soaker Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Kni, weight is everything on a racecar. Especially 250lbs. Larry looks like you and I finally agree on something. Imagine that. Weigh them before the race like in the old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truck99 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 I would like to see weight checked before the event also. Kn1ghtblade, if you build your car to meet the minimum weight without the driver or fuel, you will be way too heavy. Wiggle room is one thing, but that's just too much, in my opinion. Total fuel load and driver weight should be part of your equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast18 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 When I set my car up I make sure that my percentages are right and will not be thrown off by fuel consumption. I do tend to be just a few pounds heavy on total weight so I won't be light after a long race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 I like the weight before the race also. I wouldn't have lost my 2nd place at Octoberfast last year if that's how it would have been. I think we were on the track for about 2 hours and I used a little more fuel than I thought I would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt15 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Basically my approach is better safe then sorry for the sake of a few pounds!!! you are being way to safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thats what my main thing is to not even consider the fuel weight and leave that out of the equation totally for the fact that cuation laps can really throw that out of wack unless you try to guess caution laps and red flags and idle time and its just too damn much to even worry about... now my wieght we will probably throw in, but like i said the initial weight of my car is going to be way way light anyway.... Right now without the cage in it or motor I think my chassis might wiegh 500 lbs if that... I know 3 people can lift my car right now relativly easily by hand... We figure motor and tranny will weigh probable 500 to 800 lbs (this is just a guess base on the big block that came out) and again this is all guess work at this point, but then that give about 1600lbs to make up for with a cage give or take a couple of hundred lbs to try and get close to 3000 lbs without fuel or driver... This is why I am guessing I will have to add some ballist weight to the car anyway and that can be adjusted to include my body weight... I figure if I can hit 3300lbs or pretty close with myself in car and empty on fuel I will take the added fuel weight just to make sure I am legal on weight at end of race if I run out of fuel or am extremely low on fuel... My main concerns are makeing sure I have enough fuel and come in at the appropriet weight and ratio after the race so I dont get DQ'ed... Again like in Road Runner class I just cant see say 50-150lbs making that great a deal (although some) a difference between loseing or winning, that is if we have the car set right and no engine probs... On a side note to this and Road Runner class, you never know what body panels might get knocked off or what might come loose, since every race this year I have seen it seems like most of the cars have been damaged at some point during the races. (of course some more than others) Moral of story better safe than sorry on weight or risk a DQ for something easily preventable!!! PS: now if I was in a higher up class like Sportsman or Latemodel I would definately be trying to get closer to the minimum as I could at end of race... (stakes are higher in higher class + by then hopefully I could of figured out all this algebra I never payed attention too in school... LoL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leland waddell Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 I have been trying for three years to get the weigh in before we go out to race and it has fallen on deaf ears i would love to cross the scales at legal weight race and not have to be 20 to 30 pounds heavy at the end of the race or maybe dq,d for 5 pounds under, it is so simple weight before you go out and forget about it, we are racing in a class that the cars all are 20,000 to 40,000 total investment and some even more depending who you are, and the series says they don,t have time to weight the cars before we race, weight is one of the most important factors in a race car,and in our class the only weight consideration we have is how much penalty they can put on your car it sucks, i spent way more than i had to up grade my chassis this year only to have 1% left side penalty for 105 wheel base 25 pounds because i baught a fab clip witch is legal in the rules and 50 for under rear end rear clip, but you can spend 4,000 on a set of shocks and no problem, please lets have a 3000 pound race car in tsrs for everybody, i am just about weighted out of this class waddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 if they go to weighing before the race and not after the race,think of a few ways you could make weight and then get rid of the few pounds before going out on the track.Some racers are sneakey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Just out of curiousity since like SAS their scales are only ones concidered, like in our case with buildiing the car is there a way to get it weight at there scales after we get it built in the off season to see where we are at on weight and what we have to do to make the car legal as far as weight? Or is it a matter of buying some scales or using someone elses to try and get the left right percentages as close as possible and hope those scales come close to the SAS scales? Total wieght wont be a prob since you can just us a truck scale to get the total weight but they dont do left and right weights at the truck stops.... This is what my team is trying to figure out now since cage is going in later this month and we want to see what the car is sitting at weight wise after the cage is in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 if they go to weighing before the race and not after the race,think of a few ways you could make weight and then get rid of the few pounds before going out on the track.Some racers are sneakey. I think they mean weighing before and after not just before!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBELRACER Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 if a driver is going to cheat that blatant, than they will be caught sooner or later.......at least by weighing before the race it makes it more fair across the board............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arts22 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Some series let you top off(fuel) after a race, before they weigh you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 One of the problems (aside from logistics) with weighing before and event is what I call the "B-B phenomenon." When you weigh before an event, there are all kinds of clever ways to get rid of unwanted weight during an event. I'm not going to go into all the different ways to accomplish this on-track lightening process, but those of us who raced during the era when weighing was routinely done before an event are familiar with what I am talking about. If fact, one of the reasons many sanctioning bodies went to post-race weight inspections was due to the "B-B phenomenon." Cars mysteriouisly come back from an event many pounds light and several percentage points high on the left... Not that any of our Texas racers would ever think of doing such a thing... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 The main issue is there logistic problems to weighing before the race and then again after the race???? I think thats what the main question was originally posted... If it can be done quickly and effeciently I cant see any reason why not to weigh before and after atleast like previously posted so that a team can where they are before the race and add or subtract weight based on fuel or ballist weight added for a particular setup and then calculating the consumtion of fuel to try and get close to the minimum after the race when weighed again to make sure the car complies with the weight rule for that track.... Then again this can be just going overboard on weight, and I can see why they just basically said screw it and only weigh after the race to minimise things on the tech pad.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 The main issue is there logistic problems to weighing before the race and then again after the race???? I think thats what the main question was originally posted... If it can be done quickly and effeciently I cant see any reason why not to weigh before and after atleast like previously posted so that a team can where they are before the race and add or subtract weight based on fuel or ballist weight added for a particular setup and then calculating the consumtion of fuel to try and get close to the minimum after the race when weighed again to make sure the car complies with the weight rule for that track.... Then again this can be just going overboard on weight, and I can see why they just basically said screw it and only weigh after the race to minimise things on the tech pad.... Most tracks permit competitors to weight their cars before the race. In fact, many teams do just exactly that since the scales at the shop may not match the track/series scales. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thanks Nick thats what I was wondering if you could get weighed before the race... Now next issue and you may not know but can you get a car weighed at SAS during the off season???? We are building our car and are going to need to weigh it at a few different stages of the construction on it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becka29 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 What about in a series like the USRA modifieds some mods run on alcohol and burn about twice as much fuel as the ones racing on gas would that be a fair to make the alcohol guys weigh a certain weight before the race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thanks Nick thats what I was wondering if you could get weighed before the race... Now next issue and you may not know but can you get a car weighed at SAS during the off season???? We are building our car and are going to need to weigh it at a few different stages of the construction on it... I think the scales get locked up during the off season. There are a lot of shops around town that would let you come to their shop to use the scales occasionally. I bet someone on this thread will volunteer! Racers always look for ways to help fellow racers. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kn1ghtblade Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thats what I was wondering.... I was just hopeing to be able to get it weighed by the official scales... With using someone elses scales though I should be able to get close enough I think and thats all that really matters anyway... If we can get close I will be happy with it.... (If all else find a DOT Officer and ask him to bring his scale pads and weigh it for us... LoL LoL LoL, they always have those little portable scale pads in the back of their patrol trucks to weigh the big rigs anyway... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickracer Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Billy! Billy! Billy! Youve been doing some thinking!!! Does your head hurt? Rick #18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProTree Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 knightblade,you could go in with 5 or 6 racers and buy some used scales and share em.Or ask Santa for some in a few months.If you plan on racing for a while,they're a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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