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Hey Tiedye (Karen I think) your correct an unlimited mini class will not succeed on a weekly card.The reason the big shows are that way is because of so many different rules at different tracks.To draw from these tracks cars have to be able to run without a complete rebuild.Its intresting to see the other types of cars from other places.

To have a "stock mini class is also very difficult to regulate.With so many different makes its impossible to police.That leads to "favoraitism"or the thinking of such.This is where a claim rule works.A track needs to decide what level of car they want to run and put a claim rule on the entire car at half the price of the average winning car PLUS a swap.This will keep the value of the cars at a reasonable amount and also prevent grudge claims.

In the valley we found the biggest setback for an amature racer to begin was installing a full cage.Few of the guys could weld or had a place to do it.Paying for a full cage cost more than most could afford.Theser learned at Daytona about the Thunder car concept where they used a basic 3 point rollbar and installed a 1/4 inch thick door plate on the drivers door for protection as a minimum.Not unlike some of the enduros use at some races.Along with window nets and competetion belts these cars were safe.The result was a person could take a running 4 cyl car,strip it and race it in a week or so.They flourished,a couple of claims to cars with outragious engines and there was a full field of affordable cars driven mostly by people with no experience.It was a couple of years later before the first full cage car came along and it was built to save weight.There was no weight restrictions but all car had to have full and complete bodies,no cutting sheet metal.This equalized the engine to weight thing.The door plate weighs about 100#s.Cheap cars flourish,expensive cars dont.

The main reason Jr Minis dont pay any money is because the maximum age is usually around 16 YO.If a youngster wins even 10$ he is not considered an amature for many sports.By winning money they are no longer allowed to do many things reserved for amatures like the olympics or many smaller events.

The leadership thing is the hardest part I think.True,the Pro Sedans have proven success depends on an organization that will regulate AND promote itself.Like you the travel is mostly prohitive because of cost and time.So each track needs an association for minis to handle club business because the track owners just dont have time.

I see Gator is having minis again this year but no purse is posted.Even more open rules allowing tube chassis cars this year.Pro Sedans are having 2 more big shows this year and you guys are having one more up there too.STS has the last 4 cyl race listed as a ministock race instead of Thunder Stocks so maybe their thinking of something if they have cars to draw from.Still lots of racing for those who can travel :)

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The main reason Jr Minis dont pay any money is because the maximum age is usually around 16 YO.If a youngster wins even 10$ he is not considered an amature for many sports.By winning money they are no longer allowed to do many things reserved for amatures like the olympics or many smaller events.

Yep, it's me (Karen). I agree with you on all of that except for one. I believe the promoters have used this UIL excuse for the non-paying Jr mini class as an excuse. I haven't researched it myself, but have heard several times and seen so called emails from someone with UIL that disputes the payment issue. HOT started paying their Jrs (a little) as did some other tracks in the DFW area. I personally don't see UIL tracking down all the jr mini drivers and making sure they don't receive any funds for their placement in a race. I think it's an easy "out" for these promoters not to pay them. A "business decision" as I've been told in the past.

 

Anyway.....the organization of the class at each track is definately a selling point for the class. If we (the class) can sell it to the promoter that we (the class) will police ourselves, then it's an easy sell for them. At this time, most mini classes don't pay a whole heck of a lot. Most drivers will bring at least one crew member with them into the pits. Several will bring other family/friends in the stands or pits. If you have a field of as little as 10 cars, you're looking at an average of 20 pit passes ($500). Even if you paid those cars a $545 purse ($150 to win $25 to start), you'd pay for the purse with the pit passes, grand stands admissions, and food purchased. The more cars you have, the more pit pass $, the more grand stand $, the more food sold, etc. Minis (thunders) are a money making class for tracks if they build the class. The problem is usually all the arguing that kills this idea. jmo

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the race tracks have allways made money off the minnies. the pay is always low car cost high .and the price was the teams and tracks fault .im not picking on anyone but when the fwd came along and got faster .it got harder for the rwd to keep up .then the rwd got alittle faster then the fwd got faster .now its hard to take a rwd and make it beat a fwd .to do so we had to go to horse power .to catch up .and in some cases we got to fast .so hence restictions .its a know n fact that a fwd pulls through the corner and is faster. out and rwd is faster into the corner . gb knows that cuz thats how he gets by rwd . he won all his races by being able to get on the gas sooner . rwd has to wait . the problem is pull verses push .whats the answer who knows it been going on sence we the drivers in 1990 let david horton bring in the first fwd

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Hi Karen, I did not click that it was you. Glad to see your input on this subject. This 4 cylinder racing stuff is very complicated. I have been so bumbed out these days about low car count, it is nice to here everybodys opinion.

 

oldtimer, you had to bring the whole fwd vs rwd thing into this. So you think that the fwd is a better handling car? Just look at racing history, ever here of a car called the novi. It ran in the indy 500. It was fwd and it handled like crap. Sent drivers right into the wall again and again. The only reason G.B. won all those races is because he knows how to make the straightaway longer than everyone else.

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Hey back to you Will. I kind of fell into this topic. :)

 

As far as the fwd vs rwd goes....oldtimer, your mention of letting the first fwd car race with ya'll in 1990 is just in your area. There are classes of fwd only cars up north that have been running for a while. There are tracks north of here that have a fwd only class and a separate rwd class, but they have the car count to support both classes.

 

There always seems to be a "war" between two groups of racers. My experience has been Ford vs VW. People said the same thing about VW air cooled cars as what oldtimer is saying about fwd now. Now, it seems to be more of an import vs Ford issue, in that most imports are fwd now and the pintos & mustangs are rwd. It will soon become more of a fuel injection vs carb issue.

 

There has to be a middle ground to work together. The key to a successful class of ministock cars in this day and age is in my opinion four things: allow virtually any car; keep the cost down; racers get along and police themselves; and leadership (someone who is a go between with the promoter). If you can get the leadership issue solved and make it more of a friendly atmostphere, then I think the other is easy. The hardest part to me, is getting people to get along and provide good clean racing. Our issues up this way seem to be more of groups of people in conflict with other groups of people. Talk of taking this person out because of this or that, etc. My father-in-law played the leadership role when I first started racing in the late 80's. I remember some of the conflicts, but mostly remember how he helped everybody and everybody seemed to help each other. If a car needed something to get it going, you had an entire group of guys over there getting it ready.

 

Make it a team effort and I think we would have success! Wish I was closer to CC than I was. I would run with ya'll every week. Fast cars and good people.

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Well Karen,I think you have defined the needs of 4 cyl racing pretty well.The fact is we are doing a show.Every car is important to the show weather he is lapping the field or 5 laps behind.And a team needs to know they are important.Some modified drivers are always complaining about the backmarkers being in the way,refering to them as the "crap"or the 'sit"but guess what?When they get discouraged and quit,the car count goes down to 10 cars then the SHOW is the "crap"

Will,success at STS seems to lie in forming an association to deal with the issues and promote the class in a unified front.Find ways to get less expensive cars and create a club like atmosphere.Deal with conflicts away from the track and find ways to make the cars and the show more intresting.You need a leader to keep everyone working together.It worked for Joe Graham (Karens father in law) it worked for Pops Carpender (Oldtimers friend) and it worked for me at RGS.(I was sponsering 7 cars and helping anyone who asked) Those that think the class will just fix itself have not experienced watching their class dwindle to nothing.You cant do it by yourself.

Mini9 I believe this is the answer you were looking for.I feel for you because I have witnessed the demise of many ministock classes for various reasons.If you can get your people organized,create a show and your track will buy it.The track cant or will not do it for you.It works for Pro Sedans,Dwarf cars Legacy cars etc.And you dont have to travel although with a good organization you could.I wish Corpus had a ministock association where all the Thunder cars that run both dirt and pavement could meet occasionally and work together to promote 4 cyl racing in general instead of arguing about which is better.

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ford12, every once in a while on a bright blue perfect sunday afternoon......I see a model T ford going down the road. So I guess your right, carb cars will always be around. And you are right, it is a proven fact that carbs are faster than FI. Neon Will

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Hey Karen, its to bad you guys live so far away, because it would be fun to race with yall every weekend. G.B. are you trying to say that I should try to try to take a leadersip roll here in corpus? I dont know about that. That would be a major undertaking. To much for me, I can hardly make it to the races anyway much less all that.

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will i was only stateing a fact .maybe you should just slow read my post it said not picking on anyone .and maybe if you came out and whatch gb this year at cc he could only pass on the end side where his car worked great and was able to step on the gas sooner can not do that with a rwd .now maybe you think im some kind of dumb butt .but i have forgot more about raceing than youll.ever learn .i always look at where i can improve our cars and cant do what yha can do with exit .gb has his act together .now you have run both typs of cars and you should know by now what i say is correct .how did we beat donnie in kyle before jessie hit oil by taking away the bottom .so i have to figure out how to beat gb that way and at cc that is very hard .. now i keep hearing about car count .with two tracks that s going to happen .before sts how many cars were there ..some people like dirt some dont .i like both . and gb as for as it worked for pops .that never was pops class as so many think it was our class the drivers .they made the rules and pops spoke for all of us .so i wish all of you guys a very good weekend and good luck this week .

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Well oldtimer, I figured out how to beat G.B. at ccms. Even though he beat me most of the time. I still beat him sometimes. But I never gave up, it became a quest to try to beat him. I dont think your a bumb butt. But I aint never beat him in a rwd, so good luck. I'm sure it can be done but not by me. I aint going back to pusher cars unless I go v8 car racing.

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First I would like to say to Will,is that the mini cool factor does'nt mean caca in Corpus. Me and my family have brought dozens among dozens of spectators to watch racing here in Corpus. Around 2000-2004 my family and group of friends would drop at least $1500 a weekend to race and spectate, and alot of them would tell me that the minis were pretty damn interesting. Yes, there were repeat winners,but alot of different top 10 placers as well. I enjoy the minis as much as any other class. Reason my brothers and I chose not to race minis anymore,was the simple fact that it cost too much money to compete because of multiple variables. This by no means is the answer,but JMO on the matter. I am sure there are other mini cars that are cheaper to run ,but we happened to only know a Ford product. It cost way to much money to race a Ford in a supposed beginner class. And yes I understand ,we should race to have fun,but 5th-6th place gets aggravating after awhile. Maybe a sanctioned and policed organization with great rules can fix this,I don't know,but for starters maybe a thin tire rule would help. Great horsepower don't go far on pizza slicers. JMO This was not meant to offend anybody(i smile and drink as i type). FRED ARREDONDO

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Hence another problem. Some people view mini's as a "beginner class". It is not a beginner class. You have guys and gals racing in it that have been racing for years. It is an alternative to a V8 or even V6 class; that's all.

EXCACTLY! The money we have in our cars and speeds we run equals those of V8s sometimes even faster. And with the shot wheel base they are sometimes a hand full.

 

But I want to thank every one on thier input. Some have been some interesting reads.

As of now we still havent figured out what we are going to do next year but its looking like we WILL stay with the minis. Atleast until our cars are used up and forced to build new ones.

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mini9r, glad you enjoyed everyones input. But I am not done yet. If you want to race a 4 cylinder car and do it for cheap then you might want to talk to Slysnake. It looks like he will finish 3rd(or 2nd) in the points this year and STS with one feature win(wich he passed G.B. with I think two laps to go) and many 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishes. He did this with a stock motor dodge neon. The car cost $800 to build minus tires. With a modern fi car you get more hp to start of with. You also dont have to worry about carbs, distributors, timing, charging your battery, over reving the motor, parts are abundant because people drive these cars today on the street. I paid a hundred bucks for the last neon that I bought for parts. 4 years I have raced modern fi cars and have a 5th, 2nd, 1st, and I hope another 2nd in points. They are very reliable, and the motors basicly just run you really dont mess with them. That gives you more time to work on handling and drinking beer lol! I will not lie to you, those to 2nd place points finishes, they are to a ford mustang(with a carb) that guy has his act together and is hard to beat. Just some food for thought. Neon will

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used to be the cheapest way to go in minnies but now they are up there .but the minnies is still a great class to get your feet wet .you learn how to drive one of those really good you wont have a hard time moveing up .look at bruce he is very good .and gb.s brother ,and even ej dont tell him i said that. did very well moveing up .he is one of the fresh ones that made that move lately so the price has gone up and up .well we can look at it this way .its raceing .and we can do something about some of that .and now we run when we can muster up enough cash to do so .tell me how much does it cost to run up in the v 8 class say super stock .

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mini9r, glad you enjoyed everyones input. But I am not done yet. If you want to race a 4 cylinder car and do it for cheap then you might want to talk to Slysnake. It looks like he will finish 3rd(or 2nd) in the points this year and STS with one feature win(wich he passed G.B. with I think two laps to go) and many 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishes. He did this with a stock motor dodge neon. The car cost $800 to build minus tires. With a modern fi car you get more hp to start of with. You also dont have to worry about carbs, distributors, timing, charging your battery, over reving the motor, parts are abundant because people drive these cars today on the street. I paid a hundred bucks for the last neon that I bought for parts. 4 years I have raced modern fi cars and have a 5th, 2nd, 1st, and I hope another 2nd in points. They are very reliable, and the motors basicly just run you really dont mess with them. That gives you more time to work on handling and drinking beer lol! I will not lie to you, those to 2nd place points finishes, they are to a ford mustang(with a carb) that guy has his act together and is hard to beat. Just some food for thought. Neon will

Cheap!!??? I think not!!! I must spend $2000 a race season....on beer and food!!!!! Mostly beer!! :o

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mini9r, glad you enjoyed everyones input. But I am not done yet. If you want to race a 4 cylinder car and do it for cheap then you might want to talk to Slysnake. It looks like he will finish 3rd(or 2nd) in the points this year and STS with one feature win(wich he passed G.B. with I think two laps to go) and many 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place finishes. He did this with a stock motor dodge neon. The car cost $800 to build minus tires. With a modern fi car you get more hp to start of with. You also dont have to worry about carbs, distributors, timing, charging your battery, over reving the motor, parts are abundant because people drive these cars today on the street. I paid a hundred bucks for the last neon that I bought for parts. 4 years I have raced modern fi cars and have a 5th, 2nd, 1st, and I hope another 2nd in points. They are very reliable, and the motors basicly just run you really dont mess with them. That gives you more time to work on handling and drinking beer lol! I will not lie to you, those to 2nd place points finishes, they are to a ford mustang(with a carb) that guy has his act together and is hard to beat. Just some food for thought. Neon will

Cheap!!??? I think not!!! I must spend $2000 a race season....on beer and food!!!!! Mostly beer!! :o

well rick you have to spend money on beer so .s you can have friends .if not you would be lonely. :D .you know those fareweather friends .didnt you know that snakes have no natural friends .

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  • 6 months later...

mini9r,I was wondering if you found a way to race yet?Its early in this years season but many things have happened.All the purses for minis around here has dropped and the car count at STS for minis has dropped.We got rained out for CCs grand opening so we have to wait another week for results on car counts.The famous 1/2 mile track in San Antonio closed so there is a gap in the Pro Sedan scedual.RGS is seeing a car count increase and responded with a slight increase in payouts.I donk know if any tracks in the Dallas aera are still running them.

Sarge,I am curious if your track is considering runnining them ever again and how is the Twister class doing.I think thats what you call the entry class.Is your 4 cyl racing better with only Jr minis now?Looks like you have lots of cars in total in the pits.

Your Tezas Twister is very similar to the original Thunder cars of RGS in 1992.Can you say what your likes and dislikes are about that class?And is there a place for a grown man who wants to race a 4 cyl car at your track now?Thank you for listening. Thumper

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Well the car count has droped at STS but the purse hasnt Owen is still paying the purse ...and i do think the car count will come up after a month of cc opening up.. And by the way you will see me at both tracks racing i will suport racing in Corpus

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