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Donnie Moore wins 4th in a Row


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cRT: I don't think the rules favor VW, but I do think that smaller displacement vehicles of any make will corner better than larger displacement cars. I also think that very few cars that race TPS are actually built to the limits allowed under the current rules.

 

Oldtimer: I know the 1 is a Pinto and the 2 is a scaled LM car - running the 2L motors was a smart move on their part, they get to be ~350lbs lighter than last year and with the right engine builder, they aren't giving up much under the hood.

 

Randy is probably close to the rules, and it shows. He has that Bug turned on.. The Chevy keeps getting better and better and I'll bet he is close as well. Speaking of the Chevy, he runs under the same rules and restrictions the Fords do - there is nothing in the rules that says Ford except the ARCA head..

They went with the 2000 yes to get the wieght off maybe they got the money to do that we dont .yes randy is fast thats good and the chevy thats good .im glad i have no quams at all with them .from your perspective why is it poeple are scared of the arca head .just your thought on that . the rules were made aganst that head after we got one and before we ran it couldnt just throw it away .im not griping just wanted to know your thought 1 crew.good day :D ps we will run what we get or got .no problem .

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The problem with the ARCA head is that when it first appeared in TPS, with no other real changes, the cars that had it gained an immediate two second/lap advantage over everyone. The rules, up until that time, had consistently been written to favor the Fords but no one had built a car to the rules until Randy showed up. The lightest displacement/weight vehicle to build was a stock valve size Pinto. One line item, intended to allow the VW air-cooled to run with the rest of the pack "after market head allowed", let the genie out of the bottle. Until then the only vehicle that had an aftermarket head available was the air-cooled VW. Remember that the year that happened, Fords were allowed an unrestricted 500 CFM holley while everyone else used a 32/36 Weber (~290 CFM). It took a year to get the rules changed to allow a 38/38 (~340 CFM) and no penalties against the Fords. We almost had reasonable parity with the restrictor plate but the cars changed hands, a few had engine failures and blamed the restrictor plates so there had to be a tradeoff somewhere and here we are..

 

I don't really dislike the ARCA head, it just has to be recognized that it is a race designed piece and it is going to take some deep pockets to get a "stock" head of any kind ported to the point that it will equal the performance potential. That said, there is nothing to prevent someone from doing just that. I suspect that if you really had a picture of what was in Donnie's motor you would find a lot of trick stuff, all legal, but required to to even begin to bring the performance level up to where that single piece can bring an otherwise modest Ford.

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The ARCA head isnt all that. If i had the money to choose between the ARCA and the SVO i would buy the SVO in heart beat. But impoor and cant afford either one so i run the cast roller head with very good port work done. Maybe one race this year i will come a TPS race and will see what my motor can do against the 70 car. But I know that 70 car has An alum head right so why not slap a restrictor on him,seeing how you want one on the ford with any alum head. My brother runs the slum head from esslinger but its not the ARCA or the SVO just a regular roller alum head. Would he have to run a plate,probably. THIS ISNT NASCAR GET OVER THE STUPID PLATES AND LET THE CARS RUN.If the fords start to run away then the VW better go back to drawing board.

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The problem with the ARCA head is that when it first appeared in TPS, with no other real changes, the cars that had it gained an immediate two second/lap advantage over everyone. The rules, up until that time, had consistently been written to favor the Fords but no one had built a car to the rules until Randy showed up. The lightest displacement/weight vehicle to build was a stock valve size Pinto. One line item, intended to allow the VW air-cooled to run with the rest of the pack "after market head allowed", let the genie out of the bottle. Until then the only vehicle that had an aftermarket head available was the air-cooled VW. Remember that the year that happened, Fords were allowed an unrestricted 500 CFM holley while everyone else used a 32/36 Weber (~290 CFM). It took a year to get the rules changed to allow a 38/38 (~340 CFM) and no penalties against the Fords. We almost had reasonable parity with the restrictor plate but the cars changed hands, a few had engine failures and blamed the restrictor plates so there had to be a tradeoff somewhere and here we are..

 

I don't really dislike the ARCA head, it just has to be recognized that it is a race designed piece and it is going to take some deep pockets to get a "stock" head of any kind ported to the point that it will equal the performance potential. That said, there is nothing to prevent someone from doing just that. I suspect that if you really had a picture of what was in Donnie's motor you would find a lot of trick stuff, all legal, but required to to even begin to bring the performance level up to where that single piece can bring an otherwise modest Ford.

THANK YOU VERY GOOD .AND UNLESS I HAVE LOST MY MINED I BELIEVE VW FWD ALWAYS HAD ALUMINUM HEAD 12 .NOW I KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY ;)

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The Volkswagen motors only came with aluminum heads. If the freakin class is so unfair then move on to bombers, street stock, modifieds, or what ever. Or build a damn fwd vw and prove that it is the car that is fast and not the racer.

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Read the rules,so far this year only the ARCA head has a restrictor plate and that was increased to 40mm,and CRT I hate to drag oldtimer into this also,but at SAS he stated that he still had the 38mm plate from last year. The SVO head has no restrictor plate so far this year. Donnie has a balance setup,and a lot of his problem was with the car bogging in the corner,he did try the 500 a few races and went back to the 38 carb,I cannot say which he is running this year,but he is a good driver and has a good team,Right now the red and white paint slowed my car down ,along with work schedule,(I did leave the red paint flakes at the track though). From what I remember about the 1st SAS race the other lead cars came on lapped traffic and were behind each other and Donnie made his opening on the outsideand went on from there. Anyway

look forward to the next race and have fun,in Texas you are not running for the Winston million anyway. :)

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Aluminum VS cast iron is not an argument you want to go in to.. For equal flow numbers , a cast iron head will produce more HP than an Al head because the Al head pulls heat from the combustion chamber. The only advantage Al has over Fe (iron) is it is softer and therefore easier to cut. There is a weight advantage from Al but consider that FWD cars run the transmission in front of the axle as well and this gives them in most cases a 55% front weight percentage to deal with.. Find something else, that dog don't hunt..

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97 thats right i didnt run the 40 didnt have time to try it .and didnt do to much with the wieght either .but i will next time looking forward to it .we have to start in the back .so.i will know then how it does.i dont know at kyle but i believe we can run with him in sa .just have to get up there to the front and try .could be fun .he.s the big cat on the block now .got to sick the dogs out after him .dont you just love it ,,i do . :D

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im a nonmember and sure dont want to offend anyone. i believe donnie moore is winning races because he is doing his homework. i think it is unfair to slow him down by modifying the rules. these are basically the same rules we ran under in the 2002 season and rear wheel drives dominated. work! thats how we did it, thats how donnie is doing it, and thats how all series champions do it.

 

leave the rules alone for a season. tps has been around for a long long time. by now they should be able to write them in december,post them in january and live by them for the entire season. therefore drivers, crew members, friends and family have no gripe because they knew the rules when they started the season.

 

good luck to all drivers.

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1-crew, you might want to check your information source on aluminum heads. i believe esslinger states in their book that the arca head "BREATHES FIRE." i can attest to that. by the way, we ran a svo head on the 30 car when we ran with the tps, with a 38 mm restriction at one time. i think gear is just as important. rear wheel drives need to get out of 2nd gear. i would be glad to share what worked for us. might be the topic that puts the rear wheel drive cars in the hunt.

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WOW and all this cause i just asked neil if they was checking donnie to see why he is dominating . three pages of post and plenty of argueing. and all he had to say was yes folks we are checking his car to make sure it is legal and within the rules

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dude i'm sorry..............[edited out by Nick Holt, 5/5/06] a question like that you feel deserves a response? honestly . do you think he is not being teched?

there you go................away for you to get out of putting up protest money , become the tech man .......then you can tech anything ,anytime on any car.

i have no dog in this fight............and i tell myself to just read and stay out of it [edited out by Nick Holt, 5/5/06]

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I'll throw .02 cents into the pot...

 

Facts:

 

* #70 is running better this season than he did last season (handleing,) and has been able to stay clean. Kudos to that team for their homework and getting the whole picture together.

 

* The Mustangs are running better this season than they did last season. Kudos to those teams for doing their homework and showing the Mustangs can run faster than they did last year. Keep doing that homework, and we will see a Mustang in the winners circle again this year.

 

*The #4 car has also done their homework, and that car is on rails. He has not reached the full potential of that car yet either. When he does, the the whole field may be watching his tail cross the checkers first.

 

* #20, #48, #15 and the other "fast" cars from last year have been having problems and are not running as well as they did last season (yet.) Watch out when they do...

 

* I quoted Nick over a year ago that someone needed to build a VW bug, as the rules really favored them. Someone did build a bug and has steadily improved his finishes from race 1 to race 4. (Graphed out, he will be the one we will all be chasing here shortly.)

 

* Racing is an evolution. Things change, and each team has to continually modify and keep up with the changes, or they will quickly fall to the middle and back of the pack.

 

* Lalo makes the best BBQ steaks and sausages that I have ever tasted. :D I think we should name him the official cook of TPS. I would be willing to put in to a fund to pay for the supplies!! We could sit around after the races and enjoy...

 

Analysis:

 

If #70 had not improved, the mustangs probably would have won every race so far this season. Should they be slowed down because they did their homework? NO. #70 is better, and they are better. It just makes it tough on the cars that seem to be taking two steps back... :unsure:

 

As Richard Petty says, winning and problems are on opposite sides of the pendulum. It swings, and no one can maintain a winning streak forever. He said that rule held true for everyone, including himself, and specifically for Jeff Gordon who had just won his 3rd championship when he said it. Fair to say in hindsight that even though the #24 team won another championship, he has definitely slowed down on his domination streak.

 

So let's see, winning a race depends on many factors including the driver, the equipment, the team, the attitude, taking care of your equipment during the race, and LUCK. Everything has to be lined up. So who can win in TPS: the #70 has proven he can win, the Mustangs are on the verge of winning, the Chevy is getting it all together, the Bug is fast approaching the lead, the FWD's #20, #48, #15, #19, have all shown great performance before and when things are lined up, they each have an equal opportunity to take the checkers. The #72 who has not shown her full potential this year due to problems like so many other drivers. Fact is, any driver in any car has the potential to win each time we get together to race.

 

That's my .02, but based on inflation rate that the petrol is following, it's worth at least a buck and a quarter!!! :o:o:P:lol::lol::(:blink:

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Lloyd , You got it right, your observations are right on the money.

But then you were AT the Pro Sedan races and not in front of a computer a hundred miles away. No wonder you got it right.

Maybe thats an unfair advantage. Ha ha.

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Oldtimer Jessie will be ahead of me so I guess I can follow him if I make it. I think I will pit by 48 and give him his monkey back so I can have better luck. Lalo needs a bigger barbeque pit though. Mental note wait until tires warm up to really push the car hard.

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hartracn 19 i look forward to those cars you mention up front i said it before they are getting fast .maybe we can win a.few or them so we or them could be the subject .97 you can pass us too your not slow .our car comes in on the first lap and purty much stays that way .[unless]and randy i know what yah ran ok .thanks for the offer .and lalo can cook and i know if you bring something he will cook it .getting hungry and for some poeple getting mad .sorry but you can always go to another post .i myself have not one time got mad on any of this . atleast for the good poeple get to get it out of thier system .aint that great .i wish everyone a nice day .it looks like rain .

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ok hartracing . you say all of these cars have improved and gottin faster .ok lets look at dishman build a new motor to get his weight down spent big bucks too i bet doing it . now a 2000 is a good motor needs a lot of rpms to make the horsepower and not cheap to build . but here they spend all that time and money and still get there doors blown away. but its not just the fords here he is flying by the bugs and the chevy too i mean 4 races over 10 seconds in one,over 6 seconds in another,1.6 seconds in another .the way it is looking i guess everyone else should mover down to the texas thunder cars

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Mike - I agree, maybe we should all just stay home and complain on here about the rules to all the classes we could run. NAAAAWWW - not my cup 'o' tea... To quote them famous words: Let's Go RAAAAAACCCCCIIIINNNNGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Old Timer - I have never seen you mad :) - You and the whole #7 crew are some of the folks I'm talking about when I say I joined TPS for the camaraderie!! You take what you've got, and keep working on it. That is racing. Are ya'll going to make it up to THR on 5/27/06??

 

cRt racing - Man how time flies. Has it been a whole year already??? I can set my clocks by you. Alright, I will try your logic on for size. If I work on my car to make it faster, and I succeed, but another team does that as well, then FFFOOOUUULLL!!!! That is not fair, how dare they continue to improve their cars. When do I get to win??? Do I have your logic down correctly... If so, I think you kind of miss the whole point of a race SEASON, race TEAM, IMPROVEMENTS, the word RACE, ETC.

 

A man walks into a restaurant that has only two items on the menu. One is way expensive, and it is the one he wants. We will call it a steak. The other is cheap, and most everyone orders it, but it is not what the man wants. We will call it a plain ole burger. The man becomes furious, because he doesn't want to pay the price for the steak, but really wants it. He takes out huge ads in the restaurant trade papers to show how unsatisfied he is. Almost all of the restaurant’s other customers, all of the other restaurants, and the rest of the whole town see that the man has kind of lost it, since he had not been to the restaurant in 10-15 YEARS and is located in an entirely different city. When questioned about his complaints when he doesn't even GO to the restaurant, he politely states that he is complaining because others may feel the same way he does.

 

Food for thought, The FWD cars are cheap, plentiful, and go fast in the stock form. (VW rabbits, Neon Wills, uh, I mean Neons, maybe even a Honda or two. The choices are wide open.) All can be built at a fraction of the mustangs. In fact, you could build 3 cars for the costs you are talking about spending. You could race one, have a back up, and sell the third so it didn't cost you a dime for your car... They even have Ford FWD’s, wow, what a concept??? You ever see the Rally races on speed, they haul axx….

 

I know, you want a steak, uh, mean Mustang, well that is a very good choice Sir, but it is a bit pricey. Can I get you some A1 sauce with that???

 

Taking one line from a book and saying that is what the whole book is about, is as wise as, well, nothing. It is not wise at all. To give a single fact but omit the other facts is the same thing. Are you a politician???

 

Lets examine your points, shall we? When was he (#70) over 10 and 6 seconds ahead? I will tell you, when the cars behind him were battling it out for second place. If I was out in front in a YUGO, I would be leaving the pack under those conditions. Ok, not as far as if I was in the #70, but you get the point (I hope.) A little over a second for the third one you list, that sounds like a pretty close race. Have you ever seen that NCT commercial talking about close finishes. What can you do in a second an a half.

 

What was the other finish. Why not tell all the good readers here on TXSZ that it was only .68 seconds??? Because that would hurt your argument? Sorry, I don't see an argument to be had.

 

Slow anyone down and I will be terribly disappointed. I WANT TO BEAT THE BEST, WHEN THEY ARE AT THEIR BEST!!! B) That's racing pal!!

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sorry hart but the .68 seconds is when he ran down 4 cars and passed them on the back straightway for the win . and if the fords were to be able to run the alum heads take the weight off ( thats been added to the cars) and run 55% left side weight i wouldnt say a word but the fords are restricted they did a R&D with the mustang for 4 races let them take the restrictor off and lalo ran with the leaders he won 1 race at corpus christi that is his home track so he knew the track better than you guys now you have donnie who is taking full advantage of the rules and blowing people away . sure they came up with some rules for the people who will run the cast iron heads but there is a big difference between the alum head and cast iron head if we wanna build the high dollars cars fine let us but when we run competative dont start slowing us down

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AND HART YOU SAY Slow anyone down and I will be terribly disappointed. I WANT TO BEAT THE BEST, WHEN THEY ARE AT THEIR BEST!!! That's racing pal!!

 

WELL YOUR NOT RACING THE BEST WHEN THEY ARE AT THERE BEST cause the fords or restricted down so they are slowed down

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if we can make it .we.ll be there hart .thats one on our show up list we.ll just have to see some things have to fall in place .like to get the thunder hill monkey off our back .our car and driver loves it there fun track .runs good there untill that monkey shows up . PS .IF WE MAKE IT AND THAT MONKEY SHOWS UP COULD YOU PLEASE BRING SOME BANANAS.

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