Donnie Moore wins 4th in a Row

[NeilTPS]

Steven: Today you wrote

 

"he sends me a private email i want it all out in the open so everyone can voice their comments".

 

Since we quit arguing on line, I have given you the privileges of a TPS Associate Member. Today will probably be the last private e-mail I will send you.

 

Neil

[cRt racing]

neil im not arguing with you like i said all i asked was if something was being done to check out donnie's car and you have blown it all up but if you wanna cut off all your email and notices you have every right too . but from the phone calls today im just asking what a lot of members of tps are asking and wondering

[maz1438]

Mr carpenter, you are totally correct in stating that something is odd about how the #70 car is running compared to the others. (especially the 1st race at SAS) And i suppose other tps drivers are wondering the same, but as you said before, obviously no one is telling anything to Neil (not to his face). But the real question is what is Neil going to do about it? And why doesnt he open up these discussions to his members for there suggestions?

[NickHolt]

If all the top TPS Front Wheel Drive VWs were kicking butt, you would have a point. But this is simply not the case.

 

Defending TPS champ Sergio Hexsel drives a Rabbit. Perennial front runner Mike Knotts drives a Scirocco. Tom Johnson's Rabbit sports first-rate equipment and can click off decent lap times. Jamie Garner runs a FWD VW Sedan and consistently is in the lead pack. Yet the Fords are outrunning all of them consistently - unless the Fords crash or have mechanical trouble which they seem to be having a lot of lately.

 

To me, the Moore team has simply got it all going for them right now. Remember, they have been running this same car for several years now and have made all the right changes over time.

 

If you take corner times, you will see that the #70 car is .3 tenths quicker at SAS and .2 tenths quicker at THR than any other TPS car. This tells me that it's simply that the 70 team has an excellent, proven driver, has top-notch equipment, spends a bunch of time on race prep, keeps good records and has made a serious commitment to being the best. And right now they are.

 

If all the top FWD VWs were outrunning the Fords, I would say that it's time to look at a rules adjustment, but that's just not the case here.

 

Nick Holt

[Truck99]

Discussions like this one that come up in the TPS series always confuse me. When a particular driver is dominant, many of his competitors assume he's got an unfair advantage and complain to Neil expecting him to penalize the guy or give the others something to make them faster. Because of the broad variety of car types in the TPS series, I'm sure this type of rules change is needed at times. However, as long as this series has been around, I have a feeling they have a pretty good handle on the rules to make the various car types competitive.

 

Take a look at any class you choose or any series. There will usually be one or two cars that dominate, a few others that are occasional contenders, and the "others." In most cases, however, everybody runs under the same rules. In these cases, the dominant cars are fast for various reasons, but the tracks or promoters don't penalize them for being on top of their game. In almost all cases of a dominant car, that particular team puts forth more effort at being the best than many of the others. That's why they are fast! They'll be accused of cheating every time, and in a series like the TPS, the competitors will demand weight penalties. Take the THR Street Stock class for example. If you were to time trial each and every car at the next race, you'd see two or three cars running times at least .2 faster than the next fastest car. The slowest car will be over 1.5 seconds slower than the fastest. Should the track throw a bunch of weight on the fast cars so that the slow car might be able to keep us? Absolutely not. Joe Aramendia has won 5 in a row at SAS. Brandon and Larry Bendele and some other LM guys have had runs like that at SAS. There are examples of dominance at every track.

 

Seems to me like the ones complaining should spend more time figuring out how to beat the 70 car rather than asking for a "gimme". And if those folks think their cars are already as fast as they can be, they're already beat.

[NeilTPS]

Two interesting posts. I have copied the main points:

 

Nick Holt said: "If all the top FWD VWs were outrunning the Fords, I would say that it's time to look at a rules adjustment, but that's just not the case here".

 

Nick: You got that right.

 

ss99 said: "Joe Aramendia has won 5 in a row at SAS". Seems to me like the ones complaining should spend more time figuring out how to beat the 70 car rather than asking for a "gimme". And if those folks think their cars are already as fast as they can be, they're already beat".

 

ss99: And they are not changing the rules on just Joe's car for Joe for being dominate.

 

Thank you Nick and ss99. You obviously understand the sport.

 

Neil Upchurch

Race & Administrative Director

Texas Pro Sedans

[TPS18]

Nick,

 

I can appreciate your comments on how well the 70 team is doing. I tow my car from Kingsland along with the 70 car. As a matter of fact, I followed them to Thunderhill last Saturday, thinking about how the rear bumper of the car is a common sight on the track. It only inspires me to get my car where it will give Donnie a run for his money. I am just glad the cars are so diverse and not just cookie cutters of each other. What a challenge!!

 

Lanny

[maz1438]

I agree with Nick in that the #70 team/driver are well prepared and are doing there homework and deserve kudo's for what they have accomplished. And i also agree that others need to kick it up a notch to be competitive. But my only concern what at the 1st race (SAS), that during time trials, the #70 car had the 4th best time and yet during the race towards the end, it seemed kind of odd that he was able to pass (with ease) during the straight-a-way the other faster qualifing cars to win the race.

[HiTech]

neil told me the teck poeple check that car with a fine tooth comb .i got to believe they did .trust is in the upmost must .im doing my home work .only ran once this year guess i cant say much more then what ive already said .if the car has to be adjusted then needs to be if not more power to don and crew at least for this year .its gotten where we dont trust tecking anymore .so right now i.ll believe what neil told me .

[neon14]

I agree with Nick in that the #70 team/driver are well prepared and are doing there homework and deserve kudo's for what they have accomplished. And i also agree that others need to kick it up a notch to be competitive. But my only concern what at the 1st race (SAS), that during time trials, the #70 car had the 4th best time and yet during the race towards the end, it seemed kind of odd that he was able to pass (with ease) during the straight-a-way the other faster qualifing cars to win the race.

a good handling car at the end of the race will carry alot more speed on the straights because it gets through the turns so well. He proly had such a good setup he just had more tire left than every one else. A good handling car will apear to have lots more hp than a lesser handling car with lots of hp. just my thoughts. Neon Will

[top dog]

I HAD A FAST FORD BUT?? SOLD IT . I THINK ITS ALL ?ULL ?HIT .I TAKE RICO & COOK THE STEAKS . NEAL YOU SHOULD COME DOWN SOME TIMES & EAT SOME. YOU TO NICK.

[HiTech]

can i come lalo you can cook good food .yummy his food is so good itwill make your tounge slap your brains out .and we.ll have bs for desert.

[cRt racing]

well maz hit my point nick talks about corner speed. i could see flying by one car at the end of the race but he flew by three cars on the back straightaway and these were the some of the faster cars in the tps . i wasnt at the race but the margins of victory over 10 seconds and over 6 in another race and when i started this i wasnt trying to get more help for the fords it just seemed real strange for a car to be so dominating without having something on his car that the others dont

[Crazyhorse]

maybe if you ask really, really nice and put up the money neil or nick can inform you of the protest rule. only thing is you gotta know what it is that you want protested ,instead of just whining and crying "he's too fast"............it's always the same guy bitching about the fast guys every year......but every year the fastest guy is a different guy from the previous season,the only thing staying the same is the same guy doing the crying still is not even a racer?

[cRt racing]

well for starters i still build cars that race and compete at several tracks and as many CRT chasis that are out there i have the right to ask questions cause anytime a track adds weight or restrictions it affects my chasis's

[ford12]

Thats why i dont race tps cause th VW's are gonna get what they want. Thats what happens when you have a guy running a class that is all about VW and front wheel drives. Let them run strokers and un restricted motors. Arent some of those VW running alum. heads to.

[cRt racing]

has anyone put a stop watch on donnie during the race to compare his lap times this year to last year so we can see if he has gottin faster or the others have just gottin slower

[1-Crew]

If you watched Donnie last year and the year before, what you should have noticed is that he parked the car in every turn. CC, Kyle, SA all the same story, the car wouldn't turn! Even with that he was able to run with the leaders, the car was a rocket once he could get back to the gas.. This year he figured out how to make it turn and if he did nothing else that would be enough to put him up front.

 

Did you notice what the 1 and 2 car did differently this year?? Look at the member roster and you'll see they changed from 2300 CC motors to 2000 CC. Now look at the times they were turning in SA. It's a lot easier to make a light car turn. They did their homework and changed to take advantage of the rules.

 

How many times did Bill laBarge win with the Honda CRX because that car can go around a corner better than anything out there. It had nothing for motor..

 

BTW, Mustangs do not have desirable rear end geometry. Ask anyone that has tried to make a stock 4-link GM metric car keep up with a Nova or Camaro..

[HiTech]

Idont know how many know this but the 1 car of brice used to be randys car and look close its a pinto with a mustang body .so hidden under that skin is a fast pinto . i almost forgot that one .

[HiTech]

O i realy think the 53 herbie has a airplaine eng in it .jk but randy a friend of mine put a 45 pipper plane motor in his street bug .he raced a 70 camero with one :b ad motor in it for 1500 dollars and that bug left him eating crow

[cRt racing]

so 1 crew are you saying that the pro sedan rules are in favor of the vw's and the others just are not taking advantage of the rules

[cRt racing]

i think what needs to be done is let jessie take the restrictor off his car take the extra weight off and run 55% left side weight and see what it will do against donnie's to see how they will run together call it R&D for a race if not let either dishman try it out im sure they still have there 2300's that they could slap in for R&D

[1-Crew]

cRT: I don't think the rules favor VW, but I do think that smaller displacement vehicles of any make will corner better than larger displacement cars. I also think that very few cars that race TPS are actually built to the limits allowed under the current rules.

 

Oldtimer: I know the 1 is a Pinto and the 2 is a scaled LM car - running the 2L motors was a smart move on their part, they get to be ~350lbs lighter than last year and with the right engine builder, they aren't giving up much under the hood.

 

Randy is probably close to the rules, and it shows. He has that Bug turned on.. The Chevy keeps getting better and better and I'll bet he is close as well. Speaking of the Chevy, he runs under the same rules and restrictions the Fords do - there is nothing in the rules that says Ford except the ARCA head..

[HiTech]

If you watched Donnie last year and the year before, what you should have noticed is that he parked the car in every turn. CC, Kyle, SA all the same story, the car wouldn't turn! Even with that he was able to run with the leaders, the car was a rocket once he could get back to the gas.. This year he figured out how to make it turn and if he did nothing else that would be enough to put him up front.

 

Did you notice what the 1 and 2 car did differently this year?? Look at the member roster and you'll see they changed from 2300 CC motors to 2000 CC. Now look at the times they were turning in SA. It's a lot easier to make a light car turn. They did their homework and changed to take advantage of the rules.

 

How many times did Bill laBarge win with the Honda CRX because that car can go around a corner better than anything out there. It had nothing for motor..

 

BTW, Mustangs do not have desirable rear end geometry. Ask anyone that has tried to make a stock 4-link GM metric car keep up with a Nova or Camaro..

THe 7 car turns great tire temps good across. rear bite is good. driver is good .car dosent fade much if any unless tire loosing air .just very heavy .takes alot to get it rolling .just some insight .

[maz1438]

well maz hit my point nick talks about corner speed. i could see flying by one car at the end of the race but he flew by three cars on the back straightaway and these were the some of the faster cars in the tps . i wasnt at the race but the margins of victory over 10 seconds and over 6 in another race.

 

Not only did he fly by all these other fast cars with ease, but was also able to pull away from them for a large margin of victory. Now lets imagine being down by at least a 1/2 lap down with a couple of laps to go and then not just making up that ground on the leaders, but overtaking them and pulling away from them with ease. And yes as far as the #70 compared to last year is a big difference, there team has made some great adjustments and the car does make the turns a hell of alot better.

 

I am only saying that after the 1st race at SAS, even most of the fans in the stands were is disbelief on how the #70 was able to make that run at the end.

 

As far as lap speeds, the #70 car is running alot better than last year and during the 1st race, the lead cars towards the end were still running lap times comparable to time trials. Still were overtaken and left behind?