tex44 Posted May 29, 2007 Report Share Posted May 29, 2007 txtom, I made a mistake as identifing one of the roadsters being in Australia. The Saylor Offy thats there is an upright. Here is the Saylor Offy Roadster which is probably going to be the one your dad saw since it is here in this country. Also, there were plans to build 10 but only 6 of the Kurtis Roadsters were built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted May 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 Tex, those midget roadsters were/are some beautiful little race cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 You're right there Budman. Kurtis just scaled down the drawings of the Indy Roadster to make the midget roadster. But when you double the width of a chassis and add a foot in length, you got alot more weight. I think that was the killer to these cars. To me though, the roadster was the most beautiful car to ever run the speedway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 tex44 Did any of these beauties ever run anything besides the 4cly offy's? What engines were used back in that era? Did they have a clutch or just an in-out box? Can you tell us a little about the mechanics of these cars? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 PAPA, Since the roadsters at the speedway were runnin the 270 offys and the midget was a scaled down version, it was fitted with the 110 offy. As the offy faded from the scene they were replaced with the 4 cyl ChevyII which ran a marine head from Mercruiser. They all used an in-and-out box. The biggest difference in the midgets, upright vs.roadster, was driver position and weight distribution. Upright midget- driver sits directly behind the motor in a position as if sitting in a chair, feet flat on the floor. The torque tube that encloses the driveshaft runs between your legs and under you. roadster midget- driver sits to right and behind the motor in a position as if sitting flat on the ground with legs extended striaght out in front of you. Torque tube ran on left side of the seat. Drivers legs actually sat beside motor with a 1/4 inch aluminum plate 12" high separaring them. There was a learning curve in changing from an upright to the roadster. The fact that driver position is lower and closer to ground level, it had an affect on depth perception, you wanted to carry the car farther off into the turn. Sometimes not a bad thing, but other times...LOL I read an article on the Saylor offy roadster here awhile back and the current owner was saying it weighed 900 lbs. He was proabably about 200 lbs.off, more like 1100 lbs. at least. 900 lbs. is closer to the current day midget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 tex44 Do you have any idea why these little guys arent still racing today? They could run the V-Tech motor and be real fast. Is it a $$ thing or what. Id pay good money to see these things on dirt or asphalt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 PAPA, In the late 70's Bob Lockard in Ill. came out with a car called the Badger that was similar in design as far as weight distribution goes. Using more modern suspension parts like coil over shocks instead of torsion bars, independent front suspension and etc. The cars were super quick pavement cars but were banned by most associations. And as you can see they were pretty much ugly ducklings. Since this car, no one has made a roadster style. Expense has alot to do with it, everything would have to be custom made. Special order rearend with the offset required would be real expensive. No, I'm afraid the day of the beautiful roadster is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 what kinda power were those motors putting out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted May 30, 2007 Report Share Posted May 30, 2007 The ChevyII motor was in the range of 200-225hp this was in the 70's. Today the 4 cyl. engines are getting close to the 400hp mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 tex44 Do you know if there are any old plans/specs for these cars? I would like to do some research and find out what it would cost to build one of these. I bet a lot of people would be interested in racing these if they had a little more info on building them. They appear to be simple in design. I think once a few jigs are made and a few molds for the body are made ,it just might be the start of bringing some history back to racing. It couldnt hurt to look into it. Should be fun. I just remember watching them go round and round. I have no idea of their workings. I just might learn something. Any ideas? Thanks PAPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted May 31, 2007 Report Share Posted May 31, 2007 WOW PAPA, That would be some chore. Let me start poking around and see if I can find anything out. Ed Silk had to have had the plans of either the midget or the Indy roadster. So he had to of obtained them from somewhere. The nose,tail and hood of his cars were fiberglass, the kurtis cars were aluminum. So somewhere there are molds. interesting project to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I was able to find a picture of the roadster thats in Australia. Thats 3 of the 6 made located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 I was with you on the "beautiful roadster" thing, until this latest picture. Personally I prefer the "ugly" Badger shown above, but of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Bobby, I found a picture of a true Kurtis Roadster taken from pretty much the same angle as the last one. I agree with you, the last posted picture spoiled the image of the roadster. In comparing the 2 pictures, I honestly doubt if thats a kurtis. The nose and the hood are different as well the torsion tubes on the frame appear to be much higher on the Q30 car. Australia has a lot of historic midgets since midget racing started down under close to the same time as it did here. But looking through the pic's of their vintage cars the ones that came from the states are basically the same as the day they left here. It was common for the American drivers going to Australia for winter racing would sell their cars down there so as to not have the shipping expense on the trip home. Alot of our famous cars ended up left downunder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Tx- Thanks for responding the way you did. After I posted I felt like a heretic for impugning such a classic car. This other picture is what I would have expected it to look like, and reaffirms the idea of beauty. At the same time, this was an interesting exercise in perception. I realized that variables like the angle of the photo, the ratio between front-rear tire size, and add-ons like the nerf bars really affect the overall appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted June 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Guys, I've searched the net high and low but this photo is all I could come up with. Tex, anybody, got anything on this car and or driver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted June 1, 2007 Report Share Posted June 1, 2007 Budman, Thats Steve Troxell from Denver. Steve was the 2 time RMMRA champion. The car is the Scott's offy and pure kurtis. Wish I knew if that car still exist or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Tex, you mentioned earlier in this thread something about modern midgets running up to 400 hp. Could you bring us all up to speed on this? What are some of the more common engine configurations used in todays midgets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Budman, This is a kinda quick comparison. Typical Midget Motors As calculated by Desk Top Dyno Program Horsepower Type/ Head/ Cubic In./ HP/4500 HP/5500 HP/6500 HP/7500 VW/ SuperFlow/ 174/ 237 282 294 288 VW/ Pro Series/ 166/ 230 279 291 293 Mopar/ Aluminum Head/ 164/ 234 310 336 352 Pink Ford/ Aluminum Head/ 164/ 232 307 333 347 Gaerte/ Aluminum Head/ 164/ 226 298 316 324 Toyota/ Aluminum Head/ 164/ 232 308 335 351 Fontana/ Aluminum Head/ 174/ 246 302 316 322 Chevy II/ Marine HD/ 184/ 262 319 331 334 Chevy II/ Marine HD/ 164/ 234 292 308 316 Pontiac/ Alum #433/437 hd/ 164 /216 299 318 327 Esslinger/ all aluminum/ 161/ 232 294 314 326 But note that the Hawk engine is not in this comparison. You would think that after winning 2 straight ChiliBowls it would have been included. Also the test only went up to 7500RPM, alot of them are turning more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 Thought everyone would like to see these. The car is not a roadster but cool just the same. http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex...31517032&f= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 There ya go! Papa, just build 25 of those. Tex, you round up 25 drivers. I'll watch. Heck, we'll just start up a new midget series here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 What are you going to do buddy? You can be the sponsor . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex44 Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 PAPA, Don't know if you saw the post I made earlier or not, but I was telling Budman about a set of plans that a friend of mine got from his dad. They were actual blueprints, 4 pages, full size, for a A.J.Watson sprint car dated 1966. This is the same time period as the link you posted. Too bad it was for a sprinter, not the Indy Roadster Watson also built. we're gonna let Buddy work the corners like those guys in the 1937 videos...LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted June 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 All kidding aside, I really would like to see the SSMA grow in the years to come. I think there is really potential there, both on dirt and asphalt. Maybe like a 3 or 4 car short exhibition race here or there might be in order, just to get the exposure. I swear, there are a lot of young people out there who don't even know what a midget is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted June 2, 2007 Report Share Posted June 2, 2007 tex44 What rear ends did they use in the roadsters? Is the chassis on the link I posted similar to the roadster? Looking at those pictures I don't see a whole lot of expense in the chassis. Ive only begun my research but what Ive seen so far I really don't see why these little monsters cant be built and raced at a fraction of the cost of some of our cars today. If anyone has any ideas about a motor to run that would be interesting.Trying to keep this as close to the way they were back then but with some modern stuff thrown in. Any info or contacts would be great. Plus I think Nick could add a whole new section to is seminars . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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