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MIDGETS in Texas


Budman

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txtom,

 

I made a mistake as identifing one of the roadsters being in Australia. The Saylor Offy thats there is an upright. Here is the Saylor Offy Roadster which is probably going to be the one your dad saw since it is here in this country. Also, there were plans to build 10 but only 6 of the Kurtis Roadsters were built.

 

29KurtisMidget.jpg

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You're right there Budman. Kurtis just scaled down the drawings of the Indy Roadster to make the midget roadster.

 

But when you double the width of a chassis and add a foot in length, you got alot more weight. I think that was the killer to these cars.

 

To me though, the roadster was the most beautiful car to ever run the speedway.

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tex44

 

Did any of these beauties ever run anything besides the 4cly offy's? What engines were used back in that era? Did they have a clutch or just an in-out box? Can you tell us a little about the mechanics of these cars? Thanks

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PAPA,

 

Since the roadsters at the speedway were runnin the 270 offys and the midget was a scaled down version, it was fitted with the 110 offy. As the offy faded from the scene they were replaced with the 4 cyl ChevyII which ran a marine head from Mercruiser. They all used an in-and-out box.

 

The biggest difference in the midgets, upright vs.roadster, was driver position and weight distribution.

 

Upright midget- driver sits directly behind the motor in a position as if sitting in a chair, feet flat on the floor. The torque tube that encloses the driveshaft runs between your legs and under you.

 

roadster midget- driver sits to right and behind the motor in a position as if sitting flat on the ground with legs extended striaght out in front of you. Torque tube ran on left side of the seat. Drivers legs actually sat beside motor with a 1/4 inch aluminum plate 12" high separaring them.

 

There was a learning curve in changing from an upright to the roadster. The fact that driver position is lower and closer to ground level, it had an affect on depth perception, you wanted to carry the car farther off into the turn. Sometimes not a bad thing, but other times...LOL

 

I read an article on the Saylor offy roadster here awhile back and the current owner was saying it weighed 900 lbs. He was proabably about 200 lbs.off, more like 1100 lbs. at least. 900 lbs. is closer to the current day midget.

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tex44

 

Do you have any idea why these little guys arent still racing today? They could run the V-Tech motor and be real fast. Is it a $$ thing or what. Id pay good money to see these things on dirt or asphalt.

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PAPA,

 

In the late 70's Bob Lockard in Ill. came out with a car called the Badger that was similar in design as far as weight distribution goes. Using more modern suspension parts like coil over shocks instead of torsion bars, independent front suspension and etc.

 

The cars were super quick pavement cars but were banned by most associations. And as you can see they were pretty much ugly ducklings. Since this car, no one has made a roadster style. Expense has alot to do with it, everything would have to be custom made. Special order rearend with the offset required would be real expensive.

 

No, I'm afraid the day of the beautiful roadster is gone.

 

lockhart.jpg

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tex44

Do you know if there are any old plans/specs for these cars? I would like to do some research and find out what it would cost to build one of these. I bet a lot of people would be interested in racing these if they had a little more info on building them. They appear to be simple in design. I think once a few jigs are made and a few molds for the body are made ,it just might be the start of bringing some history back to racing. It couldnt hurt to look into it. Should be fun. I just remember watching them go round and round. I have no idea of their workings. I just might learn something. Any ideas?

Thanks

PAPA

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WOW PAPA,

 

That would be some chore. Let me start poking around and see if I can find anything out. Ed Silk had to have had the plans of either the midget or the Indy roadster. So he had to of obtained them from somewhere.

 

The nose,tail and hood of his cars were fiberglass, the kurtis cars were aluminum. So somewhere there are molds.

 

interesting project to say the least.

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Bobby,

 

I found a picture of a true Kurtis Roadster taken from pretty much the same angle as the last one. I agree with you, the last posted picture spoiled the image of the roadster.

 

In comparing the 2 pictures, I honestly doubt if thats a kurtis. The nose and the hood are different as well the torsion tubes on the frame appear to be much higher on the Q30 car.

 

Australia has a lot of historic midgets since midget racing started down under close to the same time as it did here. But looking through the pic's of their vintage cars the ones that came from the states are basically the same as the day they left here. It was common for the American drivers going to Australia for winter racing would sell their cars down there so as to not have the shipping expense on the trip home. Alot of our famous cars ended up left downunder.

 

knepper.jpg

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Tx-

 

Thanks for responding the way you did. After I posted I felt like a heretic for impugning such a classic car. This other picture is what I would have expected it to look like, and reaffirms the idea of beauty.

 

At the same time, this was an interesting exercise in perception. I realized that variables like the angle of the photo, the ratio between front-rear tire size, and add-ons like the nerf bars really affect the overall appearance.

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Budman,

 

This is a kinda quick comparison.

 

Typical Midget Motors As calculated by Desk Top Dyno Program

Horsepower

Type/ Head/ Cubic In./ HP/4500 HP/5500 HP/6500 HP/7500

 

VW/ SuperFlow/ 174/ 237 282 294 288

VW/ Pro Series/ 166/ 230 279 291 293

Mopar/ Aluminum Head/ 164/ 234 310 336 352

Pink Ford/ Aluminum Head/ 164/ 232 307 333 347

Gaerte/ Aluminum Head/ 164/ 226 298 316 324

Toyota/ Aluminum Head/ 164/ 232 308 335 351

Fontana/ Aluminum Head/ 174/ 246 302 316 322

Chevy II/ Marine HD/ 184/ 262 319 331 334

Chevy II/ Marine HD/ 164/ 234 292 308 316

Pontiac/ Alum #433/437 hd/ 164 /216 299 318 327

Esslinger/ all aluminum/ 161/ 232 294 314 326

 

 

But note that the Hawk engine is not in this comparison. You would think that after winning 2 straight ChiliBowls it would have been included.

 

Also the test only went up to 7500RPM, alot of them are turning more than that.

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PAPA,

 

Don't know if you saw the post I made earlier or not, but I was telling Budman about a set of plans that a friend of mine got from his dad.

 

They were actual blueprints, 4 pages, full size, for a A.J.Watson sprint car dated 1966. This is the same time period as the link you posted.

 

Too bad it was for a sprinter, not the Indy Roadster Watson also built.

 

we're gonna let Buddy work the corners like those guys in the 1937 videos...LOL

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All kidding aside, I really would like to see the SSMA grow in the years to come. I think there is really potential there, both on dirt and asphalt. Maybe like a 3 or 4 car short exhibition race here or there might be in order, just to get the exposure. I swear, there are a lot of young people out there who don't even know what a midget is.

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tex44

What rear ends did they use in the roadsters? Is the chassis on the link I posted similar to the roadster? Looking at those pictures I don't see a whole lot of expense in the chassis. Ive only begun my research but what Ive seen so far I really don't see why these little monsters cant be built and raced at a fraction of the cost of some of our cars today. If anyone has any ideas about a motor to run that would be interesting.Trying to keep this as close to the way they were back then but with some modern stuff thrown in. Any info or contacts would be great.

 

Plus I think Nick could add a whole new section to is seminars :lol: .

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