debwill Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Nick said that he's getting lots of inquiries from Thunderhill Raceway's meeting last night regarding forum posts. I will be posting notes from the meeting and pictures later today, but I wanted to clarify Mary Ann's statement about posting negative comments on any open forums, such as Facebook, MySpace, LSS, etc. She said that we will be adopting a rule similar HMP's "J21" rule, and drivers who post comments that are detrimental to the track could be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including a loss of points. I've looked up the HMP rule, and here's how it's written: (j) Excessive negativity towards the facility, HMP officials, any HMP class or any race team on any public internet forum or website by anyone associated with any team (see 22a above) will result in that driver being banned from the facility. We feel that it's very important to maintain a positive image of our track, especially with the announcement on the TV show. LSS is a great communication tool that is beneficial to the track, racers, fans, etc., and we hope it remains a positive form of communication for the entire racing community. If you have any further questions about this new rule, feel free to contact me directly at debbie@thunderhillraceway.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Who decides what is "Excessive"? I dont like for anyone to be disrespectful or negative to anyone or any "facility" but this is taking things a little to far in my book. Its called "Freedom of Speech".jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Who decides what is "Excessive"? I dont like for anyone to be disrespectful or negative to anyone or any "facility" but this is taking things a little to far in my book. Its called "Freedom of Speech".jmo i have to agree with you on this ...as much as i respect mary ann and all others ..this isnt right ..you cant step on someones right to free speech many men have died giveing us this right ....... taking nagitive things off of speedzone is one thing ..banning someone from a track over words .from the driver or team ..is a whole nother story ......hope this isnt excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Wow what country are we living in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 If you owned a little cafe on the corner and everyday, the same customer comes in and loudly runs your food and service down, wouldn't you eventually ask him to take his business elsewhere? She is not removing your right to free speech...she just told you, up front, what the consequences of running down her business "in public" could be. There are consequences to every action we take...and we're still free enough (but get out and vote) to take the risks if we choose to and are willing to accept the consequences of our actions. just my opinion jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 This isnt a Cafe....If the food and service was bad Im sure the customer would not return on their own. This can be played out in so many different ways. I just think its wrong. Its just one more way to have more control over the racers. Sorry if I offend anyone with this. This is just MY opinion. I mean no disrespect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 WOW!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast18 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Personally I have no problem with this. It will not effect me because 'IF' I have a problem with a track, an official or another racer/race team I will do as 'Nick' has already said many times ......send a pm, an e-mail or make a phone call or whatever, take care of it in private. It's best for everyone involved to handle it this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmbishop Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 It is simply a balance of your choices and right of free speech and their choice and right of refusal on particpation in their venue. they are simply saying that you can say anything you want, or you can race in their program - you must choose for yourself where that balance is. the way I see it is if someone is so unhappy racing at any track that they resort to badmouthing - why continue to race there anyway? Like beating your head on a wall and complaining of the headache! Freedom is NOT an absence of regulation - without regulation there could be no freedom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Im sorry guys and gals but to punish someone for voicing their opinion is WRONG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast18 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Tracks are working hard to stay open and a lot of people read forums to check out tracks they may want to visit. There may be a ton of positive things said but for some reason the one negative thing may be what keeps them from attending. They may tell a couple of friends who were thinking about coming also. The tracks don't need this especially from their drivers who they have provided a place to race. Gerald you may feel like you are defending everyones Freedom of Speech but you and I both know how hard THR, HMP and other tracks have worked to stay open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I know they have worked hard. They are SUPER people in my book. Im just saying this is something that didnt need to be added to the rules. Its an insult. This can get way out of hand. If I was a driver/crew member or what ever and I got on here and said I think all the officals dress funny and the track is shaped funny I could be stripped of points and $ and bared from that track. That might sound funny but its a loaded gun in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast18 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 If nothing else it may make drivers take time to cool off and handle their complaints in a less public manner...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 OK....Im wrong. Im done. Bye! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fast18 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I'm not saying you or anyone is wrong. I could also take adding the rule as insulting to us drivers. I guess I'm just looking at the big picture.... I want all the tracks to continue to stay open. Long after I quit racing I still plan on helping other drivers and having a place to enjoy my favorite sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Any business should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. Even though they can't they should. Most racers that have a "real" problem with a track or racer usually don't get on the internet and complain. In my opinion this rule is extreme but I don't own the business, so follow the rule and race there or just race somewhere else. It's that easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 does the baseball umpire have the right to throw a player out of the game that's up in his face yipping about one of his decisions? This doesn't seem that different to me.... jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I believe complaining in person is OK, they just want it off the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jracer98 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 agree...I was trying to draw a parallel between sports that points out that not everything is about unlimited free speech. The batter had the right to yip and the ump had the right to run him. jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Ann Naumann Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Oh my goodness, I just was informed of the negativity taken in my statement last night to adopting the J21 rule from HMP. Drivers, if you raced @ HMP last season, you were racing under this exact rule. I commended John. I think those that were not there may have read more into what the intent of my statement was. We all have opinions and fire back from time to time when someone offends us or we feel drives us in a way we are not happy about on a race track or a call was not made in our favor. Nick, has done an incredible job on monitoring this website, we all can express our opinion, yet still be respectful of one another, he has assured us of that and this is a great website! What it has grown into is from hours and hours of his time and love for this sport. I'm sorry that it was taken that I was speaking only of LSS, I said facebook, myspace, your own websites how things can be preserved and potentially can do damage to your imagine and if these young drivers are looking to go further in their racing careers or Governor of the Texas, they need to think before they post something, that it could come back on them when they least expect it. Guys, please don't take this to another level, I noticed that 44 people had viewed the thread about the highlights of the meeting and nearly 500 have viewed this thread! I hope you all realize in order to keep short track racing in Texas thriving, we have to work together and take opportunities like this reality show to a whole new level. Does it mean that it comes without change, absolutely not and most of us do not like change. Please be apart of helping to keep these remaining short tracks open and successful in order to continue to do what we love to do. Have a blessed day. Respectfully and Sincerely, Mary Ann Naumann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 First off, I want to thank those (over 50 at this point) who took the time to contact me about this personally without getting on the forum and blasting away. This is the way it should be. Like I always say, if you have a problem with someone or some rule, take it up with them in person! Great job, guys and gals. I feel like I have accomplished something because of your restraint. Y'all made my day! Second, nothing in the Lone Star Speedzone forums will change because of the announcement that was made at THR's meeting yesterday. I will continue to use the same standards I always have in enforcing the LSS guidelines. No change. In addition, the track has not asked me to enforce anything. They have not asked me to "turn people in." They have not asked me to provide information about who uses what screen name. In fact, I didn't have a clue that they would be making the announcement, so please do not accuse the track of trying to manipulate what we do here on Lone Star Speedzone. That simply did not happen and has not happened in the past. Period. Third, I echo what Mary Ann is saying. How about talking about all the positives that I understand happened at yesterday's meeting? I understand that the whole deal was very positive and resulted in a very nice springboard for the upcoming season. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 People shouldn't mistake this forum for a democracy. Nowhere does it guarantee you freedom of speech. It IS, after all, a privately owned entity. Heck, I'm probably one of the latest on here to have something deleted by a moderator, and rightfully so. I admit I really went off on a recent post because I was really angry at another member on here. The moderator was perfectly justified in deleting that post. Now, having said that, you can post disparaging remarks about a track,its officials, etc. and it may not even be deleted by a moderator. But, it may well cost you dearly when you get to the track. That's what they're saying. It IS their track, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 i don't disagree with maryann/THR very often.... but i completly disagree. you want people to say good things about the track because there are good things to talk about. but if you put up a wall to block out the bad/negative then its like an armless man stuck in a hole with no rope,,if you can't take the negatives you settle for being as good as you are now and never any better. ...and anybody on the outside looking in will probably see this as fake and sugar coated because NOTHING on this planet functions without negativity. it can't always be rainbows and roses... and honestly, how much bad stuff is said about THR to begin with? -just my opinion,,,i'll take my points deduction at the 1st race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 Let's face it. Every track has folks who are not happy with this rule, that rule, this call, that call. And there are ways to express that dissatisfaction - some more positive than others. Getting on a public forum and bashing the track official, the other driver, etc, may feel good at the time, but all it's really doing is making the basher look like a crybaby and giving the track a black eye - whether it's deserved or not. Driver "X" is a jerk. He knows he's a jerk. His wife and kids know he's a jerk and call him a jerk to his face. Most of the drivers he races against know he's a jerk. In fact, he's a jerk. But if someone gets on Lone Star Speedzone and calls him a jerk, I will take it down. Get with Driver "X" and call him a jerk to his face. Track "Y" has an official who is always making bad calls. Driver "X" gets on LSS and "tells it the way it is" and blasts the official for always making bad calls. If Driver "X" gets on LSS to complain about all the bad calls, I will take it down. Get with the track owner and complain in private. Driver "X" was minding his own business during the feature, but Driver "Y" took him out for no reason. Clearly Driver "X" is in the right and Driver "Y" is in the wrong. If Driver "X" gets on LSS to call out Driver "Y," I will take it down. Driver "X" should go to Driver "Y" and discuss it off the internet. Now if I were a savvy businessman rather than a racer, I would encourage all of the above scenarios in the forums because negativity, like sex, sells. Newscasts that sell blood and guts get better TV ratings than those that report all the news. But I am a racer first and airing dirty laundry in public is not in the best interest of racing in the long run IMHO. On the other side of the coin, I do encourage open, honest, civil discussions about issues, news events, etc. within the racing community. Not all of them make the track look perfect because, believe it or not, none of us are perfect. Quite often out of these discussions new insight is obtained by track officials that may impact they way they do things in the future. Many of the ideas brought forward in these very forums have been implemented in one form or another into the way tracks operate. It's a balance between the negative and the positive that I work very hard to achieve. I know I frequently make mistakes in judgment, but all I can do is apologize and try to do better in the future. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SASPEEDRACER24 Posted October 24, 2010 Report Share Posted October 24, 2010 I can understand to a point about public forums like LSSZ but to me adding in Facebook and other sites that are more private in nature is a fine line to draw. Thats tantamount to me being at a restaurant having a converstaion with Crazyhorse about a blown call at X track and a track official overhears goes to the track manager and is barred for an opinion during a private conversation though it was in a public place... Thinking outside of the box now, to me its a useless rule anyhow because it doesnt take into account friends of drivers, family members, fans, ect. It will be even worse if it comes to pass that someone gets barred because of what a family member or fan or friend of a particular driver said... JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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