direct-flo Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Good point poorboy, I was just throwing something out there. I was thinking that not only will we be racing to win the whole thing, but we are going to be racing to beat our fellow drivers in our class. Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4lugnutz Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 man this is going to be cool i wonder if neil upchurch and the pro sedans will be coming out to help support this race of races and corpus speedway. how long have the pro sedans been around 30 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 I STILL HAVEN'T DECIDED WHO WILL BE FASTER, MAYBE A DWARF CAR WITH SLICKS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratdaddy Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Poorboy you have the right idea...Put some slicks on Temples mod light and look out as long as all 4 wheels stay on the asphalt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilTPS Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 4lugnutz Since TPS and my name was mentioned here, I will respond. If asked and if this race is even held, I will not suggest that Texas Pro Sedans support this race because: It is a bad and unsafe idea. It is flat out dangerous because cars with vastly different weight and horsepower would be required compete with each other. The crashes would likely be terrible and frequent. So would injury to drivers foolish enough to not recognize this potential danger. I would also point out that that apparently the only rule would be a car would have to be equipped with a four cylinder engine. Allowed cars would be CCMS Mini Stocks, Pro 4 Cars, Allison Legacy, Dwarf cars, Legend cars, USAC Midget cars with 4 cyl to name only a few cars. There would be no weight, fuel, tire, wheel or carburetor rules, to name a few disorganized features of this race. I would first ask if the CCMS Insurance company even knows about this proposed race. If they do know about the proposed “run what you brung” race at CCMS, have they agreed to insure the event and has CCMS paid the premium, as required, in advance? There is one other warning I would point out. To my knowledge, no purse has been posted. One item of which I am knowledgeable is when and if the purse is paid, participants foolish enough to run had better hope the purse is paid in cash on race night. I have spent over 30 years driving, owning, organizing and making safe rules for even competition between four cylinder stock cars. I would never organize a race like this one proposed by CCMS. For these and other reasons, I am recommending that TPS members decline entry in this ill-conceived race for their own welfare. Neil Upchurch Founder, Race & Administrative Director Texas Pro Sedans Founder and President, TIDA Late Model and Pro Sedan Series Race Director, Texas World Speedway (Texas Race of Champions & Texas Grand Prix) Race car Driver in Texas, Mexico and Talladega, Alabama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 If asked and if this race is even held, I will not suggest that Texas Pro Sedans support this race because: It is a bad and unsafe idea. It is flat out dangerous because cars with vastly different weight and horsepower would be required compete with each other. The crashes would likely be terrible and frequent. So would injury to drivers foolish enough to not recognize this potential danger. Neil, Doesn't TPS have a wide variety of cars with "vastly different weight and horsepower" combinations? Thats what I see. I would first ask if the CCMS Insurance company even knows about this proposed race. If they do know about the proposed “run what you brung” race at CCMS, have they agreed to insure the event and has CCMS paid the premium, as required, in advance? I am surprised you would make the assumption CCMS would run without insurance. There is one other warning I would point out. To my knowledge, no purse has been posted. One item of which I am knowledgeable is when and if the purse is paid, participants foolish enough to run had better hope the purse is paid in cash on race night. Owen and his staff have paid out purse money when it would have been perfectly fine to cut purses dramatically. Remember the 12 car LM 4k to win field last year? He paid the FULL purse. I believe your post shows bad blood or a grudge between you and CCMS management. No one asked for your sanction or support for this race. In fact I don't think this is even an official race yet. Just talk of one. Sorry Neil, but I do not agree with your stance on this in any way and think your reasons for TPS drivers "boycotting" this race are assanine. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilTPS Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 Jason: You said - "No one asked for your sanction or support for this race". Wrong ! - 4lugnutz asked. "In fact I don't think this is even an official race yet". Then why are you presenting a case like a CCMS lawyer or a CC resident? "Sorry Neil, but I do not agree with your stance on this in any way and think your reasons for TPS drivers "boycotting" this race are assanine". Jason - "boycotting" and "assanine" are your words, not mine. Neil Upchurch just answering my mail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumper Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 To make a breif point,this race is for racers,not politicians.Neil has many concers and valid points but he missed the whole point.The question asked by Owen was WHO IS INTRESTED!!!The idea was to get together as many 4 cyl racers as possible,first seeing who wants to race,then working out the details.4 cyl cars are the most diffucult to govern.I know that Neil discourages any Pro Sedan racers from running any non Pro Sedan race.I will guess he discourages any Pro Sedan racer from attending the 3000 to win Mini Stock Championships at Gator in Houston next week even though they are not racing that weekend.Funny thing is,he has several cars that could win that race,its a horsepower kind of race.And they have a 2000# minimum weight .I am going to represent Thunder Cars and CC Motor Speedway.I have a knife for a gunfight but its sharp.I was glad to see most of the Thunder Cars are up for The Kahonies Race and am not surprised to see Pro 4s and Pro Sedans decline.Also looks like the Allison guys are racers too as well as some Dwarf cars.I have heard some rumors of a possible Thunder Car Class at I37 next year.I know rumors have no merit but if there was there would be no problem to have this race with them included.I think now is the time for track owners,promoters and operators to take a look at where might be the best place to invest next years monies.Look at the racers and the talkers.Im still in. so much for breif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysnake Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 ...WOW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilTPS Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 GB - You wrote "I will guess he discourages any Pro Sedan racer from attending the 3000 to win Mini Stock Championships at Gator in Houston next week even though they are not racing that weekend". Your guess is an incorrect guess. I have not said a word to anyone about that race, pro or con. You have done all the talking about that race. If you would like to send your next guess involving me. to me by e-mail, I'll answer you and you'll know if your guess is correct or incorrect. Neil Upchurch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysnake Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 ...double WOW!.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorboy Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Neils concern about different weights of cars are probably the same as mine. I mean a dwarf car getting hit by a mustang will not be pretty. That is why I said in an earlier post to keep the ambulance running. I think these cars need to be the Thunder/Prosedan type and size cars. That would produce a good and safe race. I beleive the Prosedan point season is over so I don't think Neil really cares if his guys race the off season or not. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arob Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 I agree with Neil and poorboy that putting dwarfs and legacy cars on the track with pro sedan type cars is a recipe for disaster.Can you imagine a dwarf sitting sideways on the track and getting t-boned by a thunder car?I think Neil's reference to insurance was probably about the agency knowing about the mix of cars participating at the same time.However if the drivers all want to do it knowing the risks involved..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4lugnutz Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 not sure about the dwarf cars but I think they have to weight min 1300 with driver i went to the allison legacy website and those cars have to weight a minimum of 1675 and are a purpose built race car. I was curious because I had read that they ran with the rx7's at tws what is the average weight of a pro sedan and thunder car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOLUTION Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 SO IS THIS RACE GOING TO HAPPEN ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOLUTION Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 HEY SLY , WHAT IS THE LATEST ON UR RACE ? DO YOU HAVE ANY NEW INFORMATION ,HAS TRACK MANAGEMENT GIVING ANYWORD WHAT ABOUT PAYOUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroker Ace Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 It is flat out dangerous because cars with vastly different weight and horsepower would be required compete with each other. The crashes would likely be terrible and frequent. So would injury to drivers foolish enough to not recognize this potential danger. Didn't TIDA Pro Sedans race mini-coopers and Pinto's at the same time? How much does a mini-cooper weigh....say 1300-1400? Pinto's at that time .......2400.... Isn't this similar to the same scenario as the run what u brung race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilTPS Posted October 24, 2005 Report Share Posted October 24, 2005 Stroker Ace TIDA Pro Sedans (as they were known then) ceased allowance of the Austin Mini after the 1985 season. That lightweight class of car has not raced in TPS during the last 20 years. Even an Austin Mini is quite larger than a Dwarf or Legend car. Nice to see support of our position in ths forum. Neil Upchurch Race & Administrative Director Texas Pro Sedans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direct-flo Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 I am sure Owen and everyone at CC Speedway will make sure everything is set for this race if it comes about. Average lap times of the TT, Legacys and TPS are real close. The weight of the cars are REAL close on average. I for one like Owen and CC Speedway, and would not have a problem running with the TT and TPS. If Owen gives this race his blessing----I will support him and the speedway 100%. I believe the Lonestar Legacy Series will as well...But then again I should not speak for anyone other than myself. I'm a racer and that place out there is called a race track. quit the yapping & lets get it done.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRiley Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 I have no problems racing with any 4-cyl class, my only concern is that my fiberglass body panels cost over $100 each, it's possiable for other classes (most) to hammer out their dents, you can't hammer fiberglass...and after a season, it's hard to patch a patch on a patch. As far as safety, Kyle Sirizzotti and John Riley hit each other off of turn 4 at SAS last year, wide open. Totaled both cars, both boys walked away. John ended up with a crack shoulder blade due to a grade 8 bolt, securing the seat to the frame, broke and poked him in the back. ( I'll bet your seat has the same mount...) I have no problem with the safety of an Allison Legacy; I worry about my paint. But then, we need a new paint job anyway, and the fiberglass looks ragged, it should be replaced...besides, I think we can give you a run for the money, even surprise some of you...just my thoughts. I'm scheduled for 2 surgery's before Thankgiving..if I'm not in the hospital on race day, John and I will be there. how do I get to spell check from here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
top_shelf_12 Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 I don't think individual class safety is the concern (Legacy car hitting a Legacy car). I've seen hellacious wrecks in all the classes mentioned, and most of them in recent years. However, I would be concerned to see a 1200-1400 pound Dwarf car sitting sideways and a 2000-2500 pound Mustang full throttle collide with that Dwarf Car. Tx. Thunder cars hitting other Tx. Thunder cars are relatively safe, Dwarf cars hitting other Dwarf cars relatively safe, Legacy cars hitting Legacy cars relatively safe. If you want to mix the classes up, yeah it would be nice to see, until something like the above scenario happens. If this race does take place, of course we all hope it doesn't happen, no one really wants to see a bad wreck. It would be a concern to see these heavier, full-bodied cars racing with very light Dwarfs or Legacies in comparison. It would be interesting as well and I think Sly has aptly named this "event" the Big Kohones race because those Legacy/Dwarf drivers would be taking a risk and BobRiley brings up a good point about the cost of body repairs. True, this would probably be the last event for these guys, but would you still want to pay for unnecessary damage if you don't get a good payout? It's just risky, but for the guys that want to do it, more power to it and good luck, but don't call the guys that don't do it non-racers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-Crew Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 For perspective and to answer 4lugnutz question, the TPS cars will have a legal minimum weight ranging from ~1720 - 2580 lbs depending on engine size and frame construction (2005 rules and claimed engine size per TPS web site). The majority of the class will be in the 2000 - 2600 lb range. From the CC Speedway site, Thunder cars will be 1800 - 2300 lbs legal minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOLUTION Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 CREW 1 , ARE YOU ALL GOING TO JOIN THE RACE [edited out by Nick Holt, 10/25/05] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4lugnutz Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 1crew so the weight difference could be 860 pounds within the tps series alone (1720---2580) I dont know if i would want to be sitting in a vw and get hammered by a stang maybe it is more of a question of a certain series getting shown up than a weight issue. surely it cant be a weight thing not with having a difference of at least 860 pounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1-Crew Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Evolution, That's not my call.. It would be my best guess that the #27 car will not be there if for no other reason than the damage done by contact with the #70 during the Spectacular at THR. It was not a pleasant way to end the season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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