Any update on the racing facility in n NW San Antonio

[rebelracewriter 0]

You remember the multi-race facility(dirt, asphalt, motocross)off north 410 near I-10 that James and Shelma were going to build

Edited February 18 by rebelracewriter

[NickHolt 0]

Isn’t it built yet?

[King237 0]

Whatever happened to the guy building a new circle track there (San Antonio) a few years back now ? Looked promising but as usual nothing happened

[HiTech 0]

2 hours ago, NickHolt said:

Isn’t it built yet?

Come on nick  the plans are in the mail .. last i heard they were delivered to no where mans address . a fews ago .. . 

[NickHolt 0]

I hope everyone is building a new car for this 

13 hours ago, King237 said:

Whatever happened to the guy building a new circle track there (San Antonio) a few years back now ? Looked promising but as usual nothing happened

We've had several promising new tracks over the past several years, King237.  Each and every one was someone's dream (or scam, as the case might be) that never turn a shovel of dirt. 

[texasprd 0]

On 2/18/2021 at 9:32 AM, rebelracewriter said:

...off north 410 near I-10...

Maybe they thought they would build it where Malibu Grand Prix used to be (I think MGP was still there at the time, though?). I grew up near that area - there was really no space around there back then that I can think of that was big enough to put one race track, let alone multiple tracks. They would have had to build go-kart sized tracks - probably intersecting each other... 

Edited February 19 by texasprd

[King237 0]

12 hours ago, NickHolt said:

We've had several promising new tracks over the past several years, King237.  Each and every one was someone's dream (or scam, as the case might be) that never turn a shovel of dirt. 

I recall a few...the main ones that come to mind was the one near Alvin Tx and of course Longhorn (more than once) and the last guy who had a middle eastern name and even hired an employee for PR work (she was really young too I believe) . Everyone got real excited and started giving the guy a list of things they wanted, some half mile, some 1/3 mile and some wanted 1/4 mile like at Longhorn. Then suggestions for rules, car classes, heat races, lineups etc etc started ....what a nightmare!

After about 6 months it all vanished from the forum....had to be in the last 5 years I believe.

Nick...put on your thinking cap from when you were 25 and try again LOL

[JamesHigdon 0]

Delete

Edited February 20 by JamesHigdon

[JamesHigdon 0]

On 2/18/2021 at 2:53 PM, King237 said:

Whatever happened to the guy building a new circle track there (San Antonio) a few years back now ? Looked promising but as usual nothing happened

The owner of the property passed, the track was sold and all the time and effort many people spent on multiple projects out there went away. 

[JamesHigdon 0]

On 2/19/2021 at 4:46 AM, NickHolt said:

I hope everyone is building a new car for this 

We've had several promising new tracks over the past several years, King237.  Each and every one was someone's dream (or scam, as the case might be) that never turn a shovel of dirt. 

The previous owner of ACM had every intent, the will and the money to back up the projects he was working on before he passed. 

Edited February 20 by JamesHigdon

[JamesHigdon 0]

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Edited February 20 by JamesHigdon

[JamesHigdon 0]

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Edited February 20 by JamesHigdon

[NickHolt 0]

44 minutes ago, JamesHigdon said:

It's little wonder with the attitudes around here why no one wants to build a race track. I was the one working with the previous owner of Alamo City Motorplex to build a circle track out there; I've told you more than once that when the owner of the track passed a couple of years ago his family decided to sell the track and that project went away. I'm not sure what you get out of bringing this up again?

James, I admire your enthusiastic optimism.  Really I do. 

But if someone decides to invest in building / restoring a paved oval track, they will have already determined that their investment will eventually bring them a profit, hopefully in five years, or less. Their decision  will not be based on whether our generation of racers / fans have an optimistic or pessimistic attitude about their potential for success.  Our generation's model of stock car racing failed at the local, grass roots level and failed miserably. They will be looking at what the future generation of racers and race fans are willing to pay for - and I can assure you that it won't be modeled on reviving the failed model.  (Please note that I am not talking local dirt track race tracks here.  I am talking oval, paved short tracks) 

A motorsports facility will be built only if the investors believe they have a model that will make money based on their market research. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how many folks are unrealistically hoping to revive a dead model. End of story.

Bottom line, I remain hopeful that someone wanting to develop a motorsports facility based on a model that has potential for success will talk with me and others who have first-hand knowledge of what doesn't work, and allow us to help them develop a new, realistic model for local grassroots motorsports.

Nick 

[JamesHigdon 0]

53 minutes ago, NickHolt said:

James, I admire your enthusiastic optimism.  Really I do. 

But if someone decides to invest in building / restoring a paved oval track, they will have already determined that their investment will eventually bring them a profit, hopefully in five years, or less. Their decision  will not be based on whether our generation of racers / fans have an optimistic or pessimistic attitude about their potential for success.  Our generation's model of stock car racing failed at the local, grass roots level and failed miserably. They will be looking at what the future generation of racers and race fans are willing to pay for - and I can assure you that it won't be modeled on reviving the failed model.  (Please note that I am not talking local dirt track race tracks here.  I am talking oval, paved short tracks) 

A motorsports facility will be built only if the investors believe they have a model that will make money based on their market research. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how many folks are unrealistically hoping to revive a dead model. End of story.

Bottom line, I remain hopeful that someone wanting to develop a motorsports facility based on a model that has potential for success will talk with me and others who have first-hand knowledge of what doesn't work, and allow us to help them develop a new, realistic model for local grassroots motorsports.

Nick 

Misunderstanding, Reb wasn't referring to me or the ACM project...Apparently Shelma from that Scam had a "James"... Whoops! Thanks.

Edited February 20 by JamesHigdon

[NickHolt 0]

58 minutes ago, JamesHigdon said:

I agree completely but as you well know social media matters. More than once I had conversations with Essie about things people had said here. We as a community need to put our best face/foot forward in all public forums because again as you well know sponsors and investors will see this forum. I’ve never been anything but up front about the projects I’ve worked on and I don’t particularly like being associated with Shelma on a public forum but it is what it is. I’ll put it down to this being a particularly long week for everyone in the area! 

Of course social media matters.  Why do you think I've invested lots of time, effort and money into keeping this platform alive over the past 20 years? 

Essie's death was unfortunate and certainly untimely from any perspective.  And from what you have shared with us, he seemed convinced that the racing community was 100% behind the project.  You did a great job working with Essie and he was our best hope at the time.  I, and others, appreciate your efforts.

But Essie did pass away and no one in his family seems willing to continue with his vision.

Frankly, James, I doubt there was as much genuine racer support for the Marion project as it appeared on social media.  Racers don't really believe "new track being built" stories any longer because those tracks seem to die without a single shovel of dirt ever being turned.  Sure, they will get on social media and pledge allegiance to a new project in the slim chance that something might actually happen.

James, If I announced plans on the various racing social media platforms that I was building a brand-new, paved, half-mile track just east of San Antonio and it all depended on whether enough racers committed on social media to race at my track, the response would convince me I that needed to enlarge the plans for the pits!  But experience teaches that internet racers and real racers are not the same demographic.  Real racers will wait until the track is actually built with opening night right around the corner before they will truly commit.

Just sharing lesson learned so please do not take offense. 

[JamesHigdon 0]

26 minutes ago, NickHolt said:

Of course social media matters.  Why do you think I've invested lots of time, effort and money into keeping this platform alive over the past 20 years? 

Essie's death was unfortunate and certainly untimely from any perspective.  And from what you have shared with us, he seemed convinced that the racing community was 100% behind the project.  You did a great job working with Essie and he was our best hope at the time.  I, and others, appreciate your efforts.

But Essie did pass away and no one in his family seems willing to continue with his vision.

Frankly, James, I doubt there was as much genuine racer support for the Marion project as it appeared on social media.  Racers don't really believe "new track being built" stories any longer because those tracks seem to die without a single shovel of dirt ever being turned.  Sure, they will get on social media and pledge allegiance to a new project in the slim chance that something might actually happen.

James, If I announced plans on the various racing social media platforms that I was building a brand-new, paved, half-mile track just east of San Antonio and it all depended on whether enough racers committed on social media to race at my track, the response would convince me I that needed to enlarge the plans for the pits!  But experience teaches that internet racers and real racers are not the same demographic.  Real racers will wait until the track is actually built with opening night right around the corner before they will truly commit.

Just sharing lesson learned so please do not take offense. 

No offense taken at all; I’ve learned you’re typically pretty much spot on with your assessments.

The foundation of these projects is difficult; investors say “see what kind of support is out there and we can make educated plans from there” but as soon as you reach out the person who is doing the reaching is on the hook so to speak. As you well know there’s a ton of time to invest in these projects and it’s easy to get drawn into spending a almost uncountable hours on them.

My oldest is starting in a kart this year I picked up a TAG kart for myself so my days of having time to chase after asphalt circle track dreams is limited...I’m going to focus on using what we have an enjoying the packed dirt tracks.  

[NickHolt 0]

54 minutes ago, JamesHigdon said:

No offense taken at all; I’ve learned you’re typically pretty much spot on with your assessments.

The foundation of these projects is difficult; investors say “see what kind of support is out there and we can make educated plans from there” but as soon as you reach out the person who is doing the reaching is on the hook so to speak. As you well know there’s a ton of time to invest in these projects and it’s easy to get drawn into spending a almost uncountable hours on them.

My oldest is starting in a kart this year I picked up a TAG kart for myself so my days of having time to chase after asphalt circle track dreams is limited...I’m going to focus on using what we have an enjoying the packed dirt tracks.  

As long as a dirt track is well managed, the costs to both the owners and participants is much less than at asphalt tracks. 

I love dirt track racing and raced a borrowed "jalopy" back in the late 50s while still in high school. The track - actually a cow pasture bulldozed into about a half-mile oval - was in Ellsworth Falls, Maine, and  and is still vaguely visible on Google Maps. It has filled in with water, but you can tell where it was 55 years ago!

[JamesHigdon 0]

1 hour ago, NickHolt said:

As long as a dirt track is well managed, the costs to both the owners and participants is much less than at asphalt tracks. 

I love dirt track racing and raced a borrowed "jalopy" back in the late 50s while still in high school. The track - actually a cow pasture bulldozed into about a half-mile oval - was in Ellsworth Falls, Maine, and  and is still vaguely visible on Google Maps. It has filled in with water, but you can tell where it was 55 years ago!

 

Sounds like a lot of fun! I get the feeling my generation may have missed the golden age of that kind of racing; going to support our local dirt tracks and try some road racing coming up to see how that shakes out. 

Edited February 20 by JamesHigdon

[Josh42 0]

One of the biggest things I have seen when a track is talked about being built or being revived is the racers themselves are the problems.  The moment someone mentions it they come in saying you need to run this class, or have these rules and then another racer comes in and says the opposite and then the argument ensues. I witnessed this with the Battleground deal. They just cleaned out the lot and mentioned their plans and even said dont ask or suggest about classes or rules at this time and then there is 20 comments below the post that are saying you need this class and these rules. Racers have been burned by these we are going to do this and that and some people might of had good intentions but in the end racers are their own worst enemy.

[rebelracewriter 0]

Quote

 but in the end racers are their own worst enemy.

Thank you Josh.....been saying that for years.

 

[RodneyRodriguez 0]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:29 PM, NickHolt said:

If I announced plans on the various racing social media platforms that I was building a brand-new, paved, half-mile track just east of San Antonio and it all depended on whether enough racers committed on social media to race at my track, the response would convince me I that needed to enlarge the plans for the pits!  But experience teaches that internet racers and real racers are not the same demographic.  Real racers will wait until the track is actually built with opening night right around the corner before they will truly commit.

This is spot on the response would be amazing we'd probably overwhelmed with "I'm getting a car ready" lol

 

[Josh42 0]

On 2/20/2021 at 1:29 PM, NickHolt said:

James, If I announced plans on the various racing social media platforms that I was building a brand-new, paved, half-mile track just east of San Antonio and it all depended on whether enough racers committed on social media to race at my track, the response would convince me I that needed to enlarge the plans for the pits!  But experience teaches that internet racers and real racers are not the same demographic.  Real racers will wait until the track is actually built with opening night right around the corner before they will truly commit.

 

I've been told many times by people about a track being built and I have always said I will believe it when I buy a pit pass and drive through the gate multiple times I will believe it.  I know of two tracks dad went and tested at that were built never really saw more than 1 race or even a race.

[NickHolt 0]

All the above being said, I truly believe that a half-mile paved oval in the San Antonio-Austin area can be successful. But it won't be successful using the traditional business model.

Frankly, I would welcome the opportunity to work with someone with sufficient resources to help plan, build and operate a successful motorsports facility based on a model that makes business sense.

 

 

 

[JamesHigdon 0]

On 2/27/2021 at 1:05 PM, NickHolt said:

All the above being said, I truly believe that a half-mile paved oval in the San Antonio-Austin area can be successful. But it won't be successful using the traditional business model.

Frankly, I would welcome the opportunity to work with someone with sufficient resources to help plan, build and operate a successful motorsports facility based on a model that makes business sense.

 

 

 

That persons exists and so does the business model; it has to be someone willing to look past what the past offered.

The fact that Texas is building club level kart tracks, building/expanding world class road courses (more road courses have been built and upgraded in TX in the last decade than any other kind of track and they are the most expensive to build/operate) and tracks like I37 are thriving is a sign that racing isn’t dead but rather that specific ways of doing it are.

The days of a paved circle track running 3 classes every Saturday night and being a viable business are gone. The days of fans paying to see 13-14 G-Bodies chase each other around a half mile track are gone. I will tell you part of the reason SAS sits right now is that it was proven very difficult logistically to pave the infield (which would allow for much more varied kinds of racing).

With the right mayor and city council, the right money and the right vision SAS would be viable; tracks much worse off and in much worse locations have been brought back...but a track that integrated road racing, AutoX, drifting, RallyX and events (think Christmas Lights, Concerts, scholastic competitions) into its initial design would be much easier to make viable. 

[rebelracewriter 0]

All it takes is a little ingenuity, money and risking putting your name of something.....There's no need to spend millions on a facility....This guy in kerrpatch came up with a plan, covid canceled it last spring, then the FAA failed to respond in a timely manner for the rescheduled fall date.....The guy kept on it and kept pressing....In two weeks it will finally happen.....All it took was his persistence and a rarely used airport runway.