rebelracewriter Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2019/06/16/moffitt-declared-iowa-winner-after-no-44-truck-fails-post-race-inspection/?linkId=100000006709205&fbclid=IwAR05U4sDg_T7MYb6wDMnJxfRpAtS9xEdJhgscb05IO3MVDdTBDbMMaUtw5E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 (Note: I am re-wording this post since it seems to have confused at least one of our members:) Their shock tech might be looking for a new job this morning. Tie-down shocks are supposed to be designed with just enough rebound rate to allow the front springs to force the front end up to the legal ride height after a a short period of time.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotatim Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 Yes sir, but the spring is what supports the truck. If it collapsed, nothing you can do. Remember the modifieds at houston ended up buying the $1500 purple springs to keep this from happening? Exotic Metal springs man.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 17, 2019 Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 toyotatim, I am assuming that crew chiefs at this level are aware of and employ expensive, exotic soft springs that allow the use of extreme tie-down shocks without collapsing. What I'm suggesting is that the shock guy dialed in too much rebound to allow the weak spring (not collapsed spring) to force its way past the tie-down rate of the shock. The whole tie down shock methodology / system has pretty much obsoleted traditional suspension engineering technology.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotatim Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) When a soft spring loses its rate, call it what you want, but I call it collapsed. The tie down shocks have been here so long, I cant remember what conventional is.  The progressive springs are where it is at now Edited June 18, 2019 by toyotatim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 Suppose you order a 200 rate spring. You rate it and it's 200 pounds as advertised. You put it in a race car and run it and then take it out and rate it. If it no longer rates at 200 pounds, it has lost it's rate. This is what is commonly known in the racing world as a collapsed spring. This could have happened in the scenario we are discussing here, but I don't think so. Teams at this level don't purchase cheap springs that are susceptible to loosing their rate. What I am saying is entirely different. Same 200 pound spring, put it in a car with tie down shocks (every high rebound rates). Before the race the 200 pound spring is able to hold up the front end, but after the race the spring is not strong enough to push the front of the car back up to it's original ride height - even after giving the car a chance to somehow regain its original legal ride height.  Now take that spring out and rate it and it still rates at 200 pounds. The spring did NOT collapse, but rather the spring was unable to overcome the strength of the high rebound shocks. In the first case the spring is at fault. I the second case the crew chief is a fault for: 1) not putting strong enough spring in the front, and/or 2) having too high a rebound rate in the shock. See the difference? If not, that's OK. I am well aware of your ability to stir the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 18, 2019 Report Share Posted June 18, 2019 (edited) …  FUNNY A SIDE  CAR RIDER who thinks he knows what he is talking about .going up against  A man who knows what he is talking about …. I just bet the side rider has many championships under his belt .. that is questionable at best ..the one who I wont question but will always rely on truth and experience with well mannered insight moderates this sight . .. its about time for dq in nascar .. needs to move up the highest level . Edited June 18, 2019 by HiTech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightmoves 99 Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 Your right,Nick. Trying to slide something by tech means the crew chief either wasn't paying attention or the shock guy wasn't telling the truth about the rebound reading. Just my opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King237 Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 12 hours ago, HiTech said: the one who I wont question but will always rely on truth and experience with well mannered insight moderates this sight Absolutely on the money $$ Mr Hi Tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 When they actually do it to a "named team or driver" only then will I be totally impressed....Just seems like they have an issue with Chastain since this is the second win taken from him since he declared for the truck points...jmho  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 5 hours ago, rebelracewriter said: When they actually do it to a "named team or driver" only then will I be totally impressed....Just seems like they have an issue with Chastain since this is the second win taken from him since he declared for the truck points...jmho  WITH you there reb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotatim Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 Oh yes, until they do it someone we want them to do it to, it does not count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotatim Posted June 19, 2019 Report Share Posted June 19, 2019 On 6/17/2019 at 7:20 AM, NickHolt said: Their shock tech might be looking for a new job this morning. Tie-down shocks are supposed to be designed with just enough rebound rate to allow the front springs to force the front end up to the legal ride height after a a short period of time. Can someone explain to me how the shock picks the truck up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipperd93 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 5 hours ago, toyotatim said: Can someone explain to me how the shock picks the truck up? I haven't posted on this forum in several years, but I will do so to answer your question. Shock absorbers have 2 functions (Compression and rebound) Without going overboard on the involved technology, I will say that theses 2 functions are achieved through valving which allows fluid and gases to pass the valves. I will assume that you know what compression and rebound are. (Pretty self explanatory) The newest technology includes front shocks which are referred to as "Tie down shocks." Aggressive valving allows the compression stroke (function) to be held for an extended period of time. This is what allows the vehicle to meet pre-race inspection height requirements, bottom out on the track, and return to original ride height after the race. (The coil springs are what provide the energy for the "rebound" function. Evidently, the #44 truck did not return to the legal ride height for some reason. That is it in a nutshell, toyotatim. BTW- I admire your willingness to go against the flow, and speak your mind. Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King237 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 9 hours ago, toyotatim said: Can someone explain to me how the shock picks the truck up? The guy who moderates this site can explain it PERFECTLY I am absolutely 200% sure...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King237 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 10 hours ago, toyotatim said: Oh yes, until they do it someone we want them to do it to, it does not count. Who do we want it done to? At this moment I want it done to nobody but lets hear the others tell us differently Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey741 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 I'll bite. I don't know if it is a who as much as a where. There are plenty of tech violations in Cup that just incur a fine and the "really bad ones" maybe suspend a crew chief for a race or 2. I am all for pushing the limits within the rules. If they don't like what you do and change the rules to address what you have done, then look to find another avenue to beat the guys around you within the rules. Grey areas are grey. Force them to work within the RULES or be disqualified. No matter who you are, what your name is, who you drive for or where you stand in the points. If you (NASCAR) don't like the use of a grey area, address the perceived grey violation by making that area as black and white as possible for the next race. Now it's a rule and you can be disqualified for violating the new rule. I believe that's one of many ways innovation happens.  MAYBE this was a shot over the bow that says "Now we really mean business.... No, this time i really mean it.... no this time i really really mean it...... No this time I really, really, really mean it". As it has been Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited)  we can all agree RULE HAS ITS LIMITS .. IT WILL ALWAYS BE LIMITED TO ONES UNDERSTANDING OF THE RULE AND THE RULE MAKERS LIMITED KNOLEDGE . it is just a baseline AN IMAGINARY LINE WITH NO END ..now can anyone figure out what I just said .because I confused myself lol. Edited June 20, 2019 by HiTech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King237 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 Whitey741 and Mr HiTech....well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 Quote MAYBE this was a shot over the bow that says "Now we really mean business.... No, this time i really mean it.... no this time i really really mean it...... No this time I really, really, really mean it". As it has been That sounds like my mom....lol  Quote Can someone explain to me how the shock picks the truck up? So you never noticed the tech line at SAS and crew guys picking up on the car?.... Certainly they're not trying to stretch the springs.....Thought you were a high profile car owner?????  Quote Oh yes, until they do it someone we want them to do it to, it does not count. Don't try to "read between the lines"....It's easy to pick on the little guy/small teams.....There's no repercussions as there would be doing it to a "named" team/driver.....It's just that simple! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotatim Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 39 minutes ago, rebelracewriter said: o you never noticed the tech line at SAS and crew guys picking up on the car?.... Certainly they're not trying to stretch the springs.....Thought you were a high profile car owner????? I sure did, but they were not stretching the springs, they were decompressing them because the shock was holding them down. The shock does not pick up the car.  On 6/17/2019 at 6:20 AM, NickHolt said: Tie-down shocks are supposed to be designed with enough rebound to raise the front end back up after a few minutes The more rebound, the more it wants to stay down. Shocks do not pick up the truck. The springs do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickHolt Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 Worded in a way that at least one of our members didn't care for, but that's OK. Surely you didn't read the whole post since I made it clear that the springs did not have enough rate or force to overcome the excessive rebound built into the shocks. Thanks for making sure this issues is crystal clear now. Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiTech Posted June 22, 2019 Report Share Posted June 22, 2019 12 hours ago, NickHolt said: Worded in a way that at least one of our members didn't care for, but that's OK. Surely you didn't read the whole post since I made it clear that the springs did not have enough rate or force to overcome the excessive rebound built into the shocks. Thanks for making sure this issues is crystal clear now. Nick I read it I read it . THAT WAY I MAY LEARN SOMETHING . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 8:40 AM, toyotatim said: I sure did, but they were not stretching the springs, they were decompressing them because the shock was holding them down. The shock does not pick up the car.  The more rebound, the more it wants to stay down. Shocks do not pick up the truck. The springs do So a shock, designed to hold upward, is holding the springs down? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelracewriter Posted June 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2019 On 6/21/2019 at 10:05 AM, NickHolt said: Worded in a way that at least one of our members didn't care for, but that's OK. Surely you didn't read the whole post since I made it clear that the springs did not have enough rate or force to overcome the excessive rebound built into the shocks. Thanks for making sure this issues is crystal clear now. Nick Tim probably buys his "racing" shocks/springs at auto zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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