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Purse payout for T-STARS Racing at HMP

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18 hours ago, toyotatim said:

Respectable payout.   Very nice

I'm not sure the term "respectable" applies here. 

If you want to win that race winning purse your more than likely buying a set of tires, which will cost you more than the purse.

I'd say its a much appreciated payout just to get some money for doing what we love. 

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Put on your sales hat, go shine up your car, take pics and get sponsors to cover the costs of your racing,  It is really that simple.  The race purse is never enough to cover the costs are is only a portion of the available revenue streams to an owner. 

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1 hour ago, toyotatim said:

Yes, so there are a few more weeks to go hustle sponsors.

Hey brother, I hear what your saying and I'm fortunate enough to have sponsors to help keep my dream alive. In regards to sponsors, its not as easy as sitting on your recliner and watching a NASCAR race, all of us devoted racers get our a$$ out there everyday. 

You call this purse respectable but you have no dog in this fight, this is business to us (simple P&L). I, like many other members actually race and feel the cost. Hell my car took a punch to the face in practice a month or so ago and I'm still investing money into it regardless of any uncertainty surrounding the track or the status of the class I run.

I am one of many who greatly support asphalt oval track racing here in Texas by showing up to every race that calls my name, ready to set the pole. 

I find humor in the perspective your bring toyotatim, next time you come to HMP come find me. I'll buy you a beer for the good laughs. 

 

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3 hours ago, toyotatim said:

Put on your sales hat, go shine up your car, take pics and get sponsors to cover the costs of your racing,  It is really that simple.  The race purse is never enough to cover the costs are is only a portion of the available revenue streams to an owner. 

toyotatim, I echo my son's comments RE: sponsorship. When we do finally go racing make sure to stop by the 55/52/22 pits. (Yes, we have three dogs in this fight.)

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8 hours ago, rocket55 said:

I'm not sure the term "respectable" applies here. 

If you want to win that race winning purse your more than likely buying a set of tires, which will cost you more than the purse.

I'd say its a much appreciated payout just to get some money for doing what we love. 

The prize to expense ratio for Super Stocks, when compared to the Trucks and the Ecos seems outright designed to kill off the class.  Same mechanicals and expenses as the trucks, prizes closer to the Ecos.  Not to mention that the class was designed for out of town cars that have to tow.  Can anyone see where this is going?

 

Edited by Bobby

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Nobody is going to travel from out of state anyway thats already been proven.  This pay out structure is not in favor for the drivers at all. doesnt cover the cost of tires or fuel not to mention everything else.  A $ 1000 to win still doesnt cover it. Its a hobby and hobbys are expensive beside bird watching.   Just means the people that choose to race here racing just got more expensive. Its not our job to find sponsor for the race track thats the race tracks job.  Our job is to show up with a car and crew our fans etc.. and expect to get paid.

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Some complain about not being payed and some complain about being payed. Looks like they need to find a better paying hobby. 

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Ah (the recent) good old days of Houston Speedway.... Does anyone remember 1997-2002. 100 per class entry fee, 25 per head driver and crew 6" tall trophy if you were lucky, sometimes a plaque. Oh yeah here is your "show money" 100 tickets to give to whoever you want. 

ROMCO was the big show If you wanted the 2500-5K to win (I know not all shows) Romco was the way to go.  In later years TSRS was as well but not sure on the TSRS purse structure.

We were real lucky to have had someone step (Bakers) in and take over at great financial risk to themselves and try to make HMP work. I think the late model pay out to win was 300 to win when the first crate late model class was established (600 to win for the occasional 75-100 lap special event)  and grew to a respectable size class. All the classes did for that matter. Car counts increased, fan base increased, PURSE increased, fans got out of the stands, some bought cars, some sponsored cars but many got interested and involved.  You could hardly find a seat. $1 beer, $1 hotdogs didn't hurt.

We now have another group who has been willing to take the risk. THANK YOU should be the first and IMO the proper response.

If I recall, what ultimately became NASCAR was formed from a bunch of guys who wanted to race their cars and see who was faster... What was the purse then?

If you can, get involved, race, volunteer either at the track or on a crew, or just buy a ticket and watch. If nothing else vocally support the ONLY LOCAL ASPHALT TRACK LEFT IN THE STATE.

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It is the race team owner/drivers responsibility to fund their racing.  One revenue stream of that is purse money.  In racing, the main revenue stream comes from advertising or pimping products.   It is not up to the race track to secure sponsors for race cars.  

I know tons of people who hunt as a hobby and they never get enough for that dear sausage to pay for that dear lease.   I never make enough playing golf to fund my expenses either, but I dont blame the country club for it

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8 hours ago, TSRSONETWO said:

Its not our job to find sponsor for the race track thats the race tracks job.  Our job is to show up with a car and crew our fans etc.. and expect to get paid.

This may be the reason that only one asphalt track is left in Texas. I don't agree with the statement above, sorry.

Sponsors for the racetrack is everyone's job....including some passionate fans

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Why is it asphalt guys always complain about a purse?

I hardly ever hear of dirt guys complaining about a purse.  Isn't it common knowledge that you will always spend more money to go race than what your going to win?

Asphalt guys need to be thanking this track instead of bitching about it since this is their last playground in the state.  Keep it up and in a couple months everyone's going to be complaining that there is no asphalt tracks to run at around here and they have to go to Florida.

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After racing for years your stating the obvious. At no point am I complaining or bashing the track I’ve apparently already done that. Thankful for what they have done however lowering the purse isn’t going to get the cars out of the barns. Hence even if it was $1000 to win still be close to the negative. You think if they cut the southern super series purse everyone would be jumping for joy? Probably not. Dirt guys don’t complain about a purse because you don’t spend 550 plus on tires every race and still have a chance to win 500. You spend $30 for a pit pass.  I can do the math if your not getting it. I don’t mind doing it it’s my preference of surface. Have been doing it for years, spent more on tires over the years than your cars worth. It’s for fun. 

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I generally respect Josh's opinions, but if he thinks dirt guys don't complain about purses (even while not having the tire bills), he is very much out of the loop.  Maybe not in the sprint car echelon, but people who race cars still having some factory parts do.   (And I know non-sprint racers and crews aren't happy about having an extra $5 added to their pit passes, just because sprints happen to be on the same bill).

And just like with asphalt racing, many, many of them have done as suggested here and found cheaper hobbies.  Odd that the same people who say "Find a cheaper hobby" also say "Be happy you still have a track".  If you find a cheaper hobby, who gives a rat's behind about the track, or the remaining racers?  Which puts us right where we are now...  

 

Edited by Bobby

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Folks who  can truly afford to race cars at the amateur level are not concerned with purse money. They are either racing at very expensive road course venues in very expensive vehicles or compete in the top echelon of the oval racing world in very expensive vehicles. At the private road courses and racing clubs, zero purse money is paid. All one has to do is attend a race meet or two at one of the private road courses in Texas where hundreds of cars show up to race to see what I'm talking about. 

On the other hand, folks who must, or feel they must, rely on purse money in order to race are leaving the sport because they either run out of money or the tracks they compete at run out of money and shut down.  The days of going to a junk yard and slapping a roll cage in and sticking a cam in it are long gone. The closest we come is the sport compact class, which, as GB Carter will tell you, is seriously under-promoted in Texas.

In reality, local asphalt short tracks cannot afford to pay purses and meet their ongoing financial obligations such as ever-increasing insurance premiums, salaries for staff, taxes and utilities, facility upkeep, advertising,  trying to run a once-a-week restaurant, radio and phone communication expenses, WiFi, electronic scoring, losses incurred due to rainouts, and on and on.  And don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, because I do know what I'm talking about. 

Something's got to change and the most obvious partial solution is to do away with purses and increase entry fees.  This, of course, will cause those who have been relying on purse money to race to drop out and go fishing. And as car counts continue to erode, we enter a death spiral for the sport as we now know it.

Do I have a fix?  Nope.  Do you?

 

 

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Golden Triangle Raceway Tomorrow

Factory Stocks will pay $500 to win, and $75 to start. No minimum car count.

Edited by Bobby

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Well speaking as a fan I truly respect and thank all those who step up as promoters/operators of race tracks. Dirt track operators in particular. To do it right they have to prep and water the track 3 o 4 days a race week which requires a lot of equipment asphalt tracks don't. HMP being to only asphalt track in a 4 state area makes it really tough on the promoter and racer both. The racer hesitates to build a car not knowing how long the track stays open. The track has to hang on long enough for cars to get built to get the ball rolling. As the car count grows and sustains then the purse can grow. To the folks at HMP I wish the best of luck and hope you can hang on long enough to see asphalt racing grow.

 

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Do I have a fix?  Nope.  Do you?

 I'll take that challenge…

The reason racing is on life support in this part of the country is because the tracks can’t be logical and consistent enough to stay open.  We all know the drill – new track operator, big talk and plans, but as things go on, cracks develop.  Nonsensical or emotionally-driven decisions happen (sudden rule or payout changes), racers and fans are driven off, the cycle to the bottom happens, in four months to three years that promoter is out of business.  New operator comes in, cycle repeats, then he is gone in three years or less,  

Everyone knows that pattern by now, so for a couple of years no one commits any significant money in new equipment, especially if the classes aren’t close to what already exists in the immediate area, and the payouts don’t make relative sense between the classes, given the relative out of pocket expenses (my original point in this thread).  Which of course creates the beginning of the downward spiral.

So then the track operator starts looking to add cheaper, less interesting classes where he can finagle his expense to revenue ratio better, so he can pay the bills.  Suddenly you have eight classes running, with half of them being miniature vehicles.  Racers spend all race day waiting on other people for a few minutes to practice so they can hope to be competitive.  The audience comes to an expensive facility to find a program subsisting on $2000-5000 cars, and wonders about the value of the experience.  Then they spend a drawn out night waiting for their few favorite classes, most of it under expensive floodlights, further detracting from the value equation.  The cycle to the bottom continues.

What’s the biggest problem in this picture, that you can change?  Classes and rules.  Classes and rules cause the confusion and the inequity.  Classes and rules cause the drawn out programs.  Classes and rules mean you have clear disparities *within* the classes and lack of competition.  Classes and rules cause the friction between the racers and the track.

What’s the alternative?  Bracket racing, of course, adapted to oval racing.  You would have to separate cars by size, for safety reasons.  But there would be no reason to separate them by what body they have, what components are in them, or how fast they are.  In fact, in the context of bracket racing, those differences would add excitement, rather than create silos.

No more buying a new set of racing tires each outing.  No more spending all day at the track waiting on other people so you can practice or working on your car to get an extra tenth.  No need for the operator to worry about whether he is compensating or incentivizing the classes properly in relation to each other.  No barriers to entry (and fewer reasons to leave) because you can't afford a class you like.  Once it is going, no need for a new track operator to reinvent the wheel, causing community disruption.

There are multiple benefits, this is just a sample.   This would never happen instantaneously.  Like any new format it would have to be developed, understood and promoted.  But I can see it being extremely interesting from both fan and racer points of view.  Most importantly, it would be much, much more competitive.  No more freight train racing, where the drama evaporates as the race drones on.  In this case, drama would build as the race progresses.

I have some thoughts (and one concern) about how this would work in practice, but I see it as a doable realistic solution that addresses many of the current problems.  I’ll stop now and throw this out for comments.

Edited by Bobby

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