Too Many Rules

[toyotatim]

Man, I am a Ricky Brooks fan, however, you must scratch your head at some of these decisions or lack of.   The old, outdated bodies that are made by Five Star and AR Bodies are in dire need of updating.  One Mftg made the "Late Model Mafia" mad because they started updating the body without getting approval from the "ABC Committee".   They have come out with an updated body that is similar to the old outdated one, but the ABC committee wont accept it.  

Now, the Super Late Models have that run one builders motors are being put on restrictor plates.   Yes, there you have it, a Super Late on a plate.  What is this world coming to.   This one will hurt

[NickHolt]

I'm a Ricky Brooks fan myself and find his decisions backed by the book as well as common sense and a desire to keep teams from evolving the class out of existence. So, I'm not scratching my head, but rather clapping my hands.

Self-appointed, pit-side lawyers - and the racing world has plenty of them - like to plead their case on social media in an attempt to justify themselves by making the guy who busted them look bad, outdated, stupid or even evil. As a former tech official for several different racing organizations, I have found that teams that complain about tech are the very teams that need to be teched.  And teams that get on social media and complain about tech officials need to be teched even harder.

So, if some Super Late Model teams ended up on the wrong side of Ricky, I'd say they need to suck it up, get legal and stop bitching about it on social media.

Currently, the three places to really spend tons of money to get an advantage are in the engines, shocks and tires.  If it were my series, and I am so glad that it's not, everyone would running series-issued 50-50 shocks, series-issued restrictor plates and run with a computer/GPS-enforced tire limit for every event. Suddenly everyone would have to learn suspension engineering and we'd wind up with cars that cost a small fortune instead of a huge fortune.

By the way, toyotatim, my name is Nick Holt. What's yours?

Nick 

[toyotatim]

Sir, that is a Super Late Model Series.    Not a Entry Level class.   But, you may as well eliminate the whole class if you are going to dictate it to death.   May as well just run a pro late model.   This is what is killing racing, not Nascar,  

[NickHolt]

Yep, them darn pesky rules and the folks who enforce them are killing the sport!  LOL

[TSRSONETWO]

5 hours ago, toyotatim said:

Man, I am a Ricky Brooks fan, however, you must scratch your head at some of these decisions or lack of.   The old, outdated bodies that are made by Five Star and AR Bodies are in dire need of updating.  One Mftg made the "Late Model Mafia" mad because they started updating the body without getting approval from the "ABC Committee".   They have come out with an updated body that is similar to the old outdated one, but the ABC committee wont accept it.  

Now, the Super Late Models have that run one builders motors are being put on restrictor plates.   Yes, there you have it, a Super Late on a plate.  What is this world coming to.   This one will hurt

HA this guy

[toyotatim]

Yes, the best thing to do is just let short track racing die.  RIP.  One of the reasons to run SLM is to stay away from over regulation of what your run.  By the looks of it, it is all but dead here in Texas anyway.  

[j.j.&s.racing]

did you go to the race

[HiTech]

11 hours ago, NickHolt said:

Yep, them darn pesky rules and the folks who enforce them are killing the sport!  LOL

I hate rules .. seems you cant make enough of em … not really rules are for a reason ..with out them wont be many poeple racing ..we have been lucky and never had one of our car fail tech .. might be why we run good finish good but dont win many races ..I think the cars we are chasing must be cheating . lol ….it takes more than money to win a race ..  nick I noticed you called out this flake .o sorry fake . he wont say his name …..  my name  mike McCain .corpus Christi texas ..

[NickHolt]

We all know who you are, Mike!  LOL

[rebelracewriter]

So it's rules that are killing short track racing, not high costs......Who knew?!?!

[MUmscheid 51]

I’m not telling my name either...childish

[JamesHigdon]

I'm going to agree with the masked man; there are too many rules, here is how they should be written.

1) Engine must be production components (over 100k units), engine size limited to 5.8L. Any of combination of block/rods/heads ok as long as below rules are met.

2) Unmodified heads, block, crank, rods and wrist pins. Components may be machined for wear purposes, crank may be balanced but nothing else. No gun drilling where not done from factory, no porting of heads, no port matching, no decking of block beyond what is needed for cleanup. All bearings must remain in stock configuration with nominal over-sizing.

3) No exotic materials (even if used by factory). If it isn't aluminum, steel or iron its probably illegal.

4) Piston height must match stock configuration of some factory combination

5) Any intake and header ok as long as above rules met and intake remains stock configuration i.e. single throttle body in factory location.

6) May use any production oil pan and pump, must have manufacturer part number and over 10k units made.

7) May use any cast cam with production base circle. Must use OEM lifters with OEM part numbers.

8) If it doesn't say it here its illegal. Any competitor caught with illegal motor will lose points and winnings for night of infraction, must surrender illegal parts, will add 150lbs to rf corner of car at next race, must donate $1,000 to Hillarys re-election campaign and has to wear a chicken suit during drivers introductions at the next race.

Not going to say my name either.

[NickHolt]

You're a big help, James!  LOL

[King237]

2 hours ago, JamesHigdon said:

must donate $1,000 to Hillarys re-election campaign and has to wear a chicken suit during drivers introductions at the next race.

This would be reason enough not to cheat right here............

[slideways27]

That's one of the best ideas I've heard so far! Give that  man a trophy!

[toyotatim]

Making rules for cars that come from the junkyard is one thing, when you build a $100,000 car now, it would be nice to know when you finish it is legal.   

[Nathan]

people that build 100,000 cars are more likely to "push the rules" than the local racer.  the 100,000 dollar builders are the reason there are more rules. each time they are caught pushing the rules that is when a new rules is written

[NickHolt]

1 hour ago, toyotatim said:

... when you build a $100,000 car now, it would be nice to know when you finish it is legal.   

From what I understand, that $100K figure may be a bit on the low side when compared to a few of the better financed teams. 

 

 

[txtom]

Lost in all this is the new owner of Hamner, Justin Oertel, is the one who bought Hamke chassis, ran off Robert Sr and Jr, then merged it with Kyle Busch Motorsport. Technically Hamner could now be considered part of KBM. Let’s see what that does to the cost of late model racing.

[HiTech]

22 hours ago, NickHolt said:

We all know who you are, Mike!  LOL

 just making sure nick ..

[HiTech]

10 hours ago, King237 said:

This would be reason enough not to cheat right here.........…

I think I would just give the car away , I would never send her as penny ..

[JamesHigdon]

15 hours ago, txtom said:

Lost in all this is the new owner of Hamner, Justin Oertel, is the one who bought Hamke chassis, ran off Robert Sr and Jr, then merged it with Kyle Busch Motorsport. Technically Hamner could now be considered part of KBM. Let’s see what that does to the cost of late model racing.

Well that's why ToyotaTim is on-board; they're his people now. I know you remember back when racing was a blue-collar sport and guys without trust funds could make it in NASCAR, the difference was then that if couldn't be purchased from the junkyard or across a dealers counter then it wasn't legal at most weekly tracks. I wonder if we go back to that if racing can become as popular as it once was again?!

[TexasTornado]

Racing is alive and well.  HMP will be a barn burner.  Get your tickets now or miss out!

[toyotatim]

They used to plow fields with Mules too, I hope we never go back to that.  There are still junkyard classes, so there are plenty of them to run.   Late models have always been expensive and always will be.   If you cant bring money, you need to bring your charm and sponsors.  This is America, anything is possible.  

Mr Tx Tom is correct, the price to run in the upper series probably just went up with the Hamner/Hamke/Kyle Busch teaming up.  The inability of management to form a set of guidelines to police the  Seal Alliance group has just increased it too.  Who wants to run a SLM with a restrictor?   So now they will either get another motor or go to lightening things up.  For about $10,000, you can be competitive again.  Wide 5's, transmissions, rear ends, etc all need to be lightened and rebuilt more frequently now.  The rules are what increases the costs.     Some are throwing in the towel now.   The ABC body deal and Seal Alliance are to thank for that

[NickHolt]

Here we go ..... 

Someone comes up with a reasonable, cost-effective set of rules and the organization grows like crazy. Then someone with a bit more money than integrity breaks or severely bends the rules and starts winning like crazy. Others suspect someone ain't right and start complaining. Big money and those beholding to the big money folks, defends the illegal modifications in one, or more, of the following ways:

1) lowers the cost of racing even though it doesn't really;

2) makes racing somehow safer even though it doesn't really;

3) claims the stock parts are too hard to find even though they're not;

4) brings more fans because the cars will be faster, which is not true since fans want competition and a show far more than they want speed;

5) publicly accuses the organization's management of being stupid, ignorant, dictatorial, out of touch with reality, or worse; 

6) privately or publicly threatens  the organization's management with a boycott if things aren't changed to suit them.

The Organization is left with three basic ways to respond to the above:

1) gives in and changes the rules to the satisfaction of the money team(s) and watches the organization sink slowly into the West as more and more teams throw in toyotatim's proverbial towel

2) turns a blind eye to any cheating and watches the organization sink rapidly into the West as anyone with any integrity finds something else to do on Saturdays.  

3) stands by their rules and face almost certain public harassment and/or financial repercussions the money teams stop supporting the track in various ways;  

Once in a while an organization will opt for #3 and weather the storm in spite of the losses incurred by standing their ground.

More often than not, however, in spite of their best intentions, the organization will realize that it's not worth the personal attacks and financial losses to continue. We have seen this repeated in Texas over the past few decades.  

Then, happily, someone with good sense and a love of the sport comes up with a reasonable set of cost-effective rules and their organization grows like crazy. Then someone with a bit more money than brains... etc, etc, etc.

I've been around stock car racing since the jalopy days of the 1950s, folks, I may not look it or feel it, but I'll be 75 in May and have witnessed this cycle many, many times over the past 60 years.

It's the truth. .

Nick