national anthem

[HiTech]

Not starting a trouble post here like to keep it on the right keel .............I like to thank to two Monday night teams who stood up for what is right even when some on both teams may  have wanted to sit down ..least they understand what their job is ..nascar has done the same .protest like that should never be excepted during any sports ..there is a time and place for your disagreement  some where else ....I feel like a fool every time I don't hear the anthem start at the racetrack only to turn around look and see others respecting the flag ..I could not join the service after getting hit by a car .but someone out there somewhere  lost their life for my country and the anthem  is our way to honor those and our vets and future vets ...my dad paid a price in the second war he lost a brother ...  stand up and respect the flag ..

[Josh42]

I for one am so sick of hearing about this damn kneeling during the anthem or sitting down.  We have a lot bigger problems going on in this country right now than whether a football player kneels or not.  We got a lot of racial problems going on,  we have the antifa movement going on across this country, we got people in gulf coast with no houses or having to rebuild everything.  There's wildfires raging on the west coast, our US Territory of Puerto Rico that is in dire need of a lot of things.  Where's all the celebrities at to help them out.  Guess they need a pro team or something there to raise money for them.  Look do I agree with these guys doing NO I don't, but since they live in this great country they are allowed the right to peaceful protest which they choose to do during the national anthem.  The way I look at it yes they do not stand but they do stop, they do pay attention, they just kneel there or sit there.  What is more disrespectful in my book is when someone is talking non-stop or just doing whatever during the national anthem and they know it is going on that is way more disrespectful than anything else in my book. 

This is my opinion.

[HiTech]

42 your first 17 words is exactly the point ..this should never have happened at a sporting event .do it somewhere else ..I grew up with prayer and the pledge in school and I will always look down at those who choose to protest during sporting events not for their right to protest but the place they chose too...it don't belong a sporting event is a unity event we come together to enjoy the one place we can all get along and forget the worlds problems just for that short time . every racetrack I attend has a prayer and the anthem and that should always be the case and should always be the case at any sporting event .

[Josh42]

Like I said I don't agree with them but we can try to educate them but we cant change them.  I for one will always stand for the anthem, in fact when I coached little league baseball I made my kids stand on the baseline facing the flag, they were taught to be quiet, and respect what was going on.  I had a couple that tried to test that and I made them run immediately after the anthem and then sat them out for the first couple of innings.  The next game they all stood there in a perfect line at attention and didn't move till I told them they could. 

[arob]

Yes , there are many other important things going on than just a anthem protest. But this (anthem protests) just another piece of the breakdown of American values being removed by progressive/liberal or whatever label you want to use.There are not many more pieces left to remove so   pushback on this is kinda important.Funny thing is the same groups applauding this will be the same groups soon trying to stop football as we know it. That has started with the report that 12 year olds should not be playing football.The way to effect change for leftists is start with children primarily in schools.Look at what has happened after taking prayer out of schools for instance. I could go on and on but like Hi-Tech said don't want to start trouble. But I will say I think I watched my last NFL game last night.

 

 

[King237]

3 hours ago, arob said:

this (anthem protests) just another piece of the breakdown of American values being removed by progressive/liberal or whatever label you want to use.

Well said AROB......my feelings exactly. Video games being sold to little kids (rated M for good reason)...TV shows depicting everything you can imagine ....prayer out of everything except Nascar....Its called desensitizing of humans and lowering of standards. If someone can't keep up or qualify for something, lower the standard only we have grown to accept lowering it pretty far down already. Our President is trying to change that trend and its meeting with resistance. As a country we need to be on the same page and united, not divided IMHO.

[Radical]

I do not agree with what these players, coaches and owners are doing. This is the greatest kind of disrespect imaginable to our veterans, out country and our values. I support their right to protest but I do not support their right when it comes to our country. As long as they protest peacefully go do it somewhere else. Their job is to play the game. If you or I tried to pull some kind of protest at our place of employment we would be disciplined or fired. What is the difference for them? Nothing!! When you are an employee you may not realize it but you are representing that company. Why the NFL would put up with this is beyond me. I was in the service (Navy) and was proud to be there when our country celebrated our 200 year independence. To think that our past, present and future veterans are being disrespected this way makes my blood boil. I have seen many videos where NFL fans are burning all their souvenir's. I applaud all of them. I hope and pray that there are enough people who attend these games are as fed up as I am and quit supporting the teams. Stop going to the games and stop buying their products. Also stop buying products from companies who sponsor these teams and their stadiums. I best stop now before I put more stuff on here and Nick reaches through the screen and slaps me up side the head.

[arob]

Here is another way to look at it. When Kapernick and all kneel for the anthem they are held in high regard. But when Teboe knelt he was chastised and ridiculed for his beliefs. 

[HiTech]

look at that poor coach who prayed out on the field .....

[skipperf]

Nothing says " Patriot" like criticizing others practicing their 1st amendment rights. The President has been photographed (more than once) looking around without his hand over his heart during the anthem, yet he is the one pushing this issue. He said many of those at an advertised white supremacy rally were fine people, yet those peacefully protesting are SOB's. While NOT standing is legal, The President saying they should be FIRED may not be legal.  Please know I served in the U.S. Navy. and while I would probably be standing, I have no problems with others using the opportunity to bring attention to their causes and concerns.

Nascar is a completely different business structure than the NFL (i.e. they own the whole show) so it is not an equal comparison of the behaviors of the participants.

I can at least be proud that these discussions are happening because as coach Popavich said a couple of days ago. Unless there is discomfort, nothing will change.

 

[Bobby]

1 hour ago, skipperf said:

Nothing says " Patriot" like criticizing others practicing their 1st amendment rights. The President has been photographed (more than once) looking around without his hand over his heart during the anthem, yet he is the one pushing this issue. He said many of those at an advertised white supremacy rally were fine people, yet those peacefully protesting are SOB's. While NOT standing is legal, The President saying they should be FIRED may not be legal.  Please know I served in the U.S. Navy. and while I would probably be standing, I have no problems with others using the opportunity to bring attention to their causes and concerns.

Nascar is a completely different business structure than the NFL (i.e. they own the whole show) so it is not an equal comparison of the behaviors of the participants.

I can at least be proud that these discussions are happening because as coach Popavich said a couple of days ago. Unless there is discomfort, nothing will change.

 

Thank you!

And another couple of points:

The only reason there is an opportunity for the players to either stand or kneel is because the military has been paying the NFL to interject this nationlistic moment into the games for the last nine years.  So the players didn't bring politics into sport, the U.S. did.

Two -The flag represents the Constitution.  People who have some blind respect for the flag but no respect for the Constitution aren't technically very American.  A commentator said it best - "Bumper Sticker Patriotism".  

Three - I personally do not like having politics interjected into sports.  One reason I have any remaining tie to auto racing is to get away from politics in the day to day world.  So I could understand why people wouldn't like to have other people's belief systems thrust in their faces, that is except for the fact that the issue at hand is gross racial injustice, which I would think would transcend almost anyone's politics.  But every thread on Speedzone about politics moves me one step closer to being able to be a much more casual participant.  Most forums have the sense to not allow politics - I wish Speedzone was the same.

[rails]

1 hour ago, skipperf said:

Nothing says " Patriot" like criticizing others practicing their 1st amendment rights. The President has been photographed (more than once) looking around without his hand over his heart during the anthem, yet he is the one pushing this issue. He said many of those at an advertised white supremacy rally were fine people, yet those peacefully protesting are SOB's. While NOT standing is legal, The President saying they should be FIRED may not be legal.  Please know I served in the U.S. Navy. and while I would probably be standing, I have no problems with others using the opportunity to bring attention to their causes and concerns.

Nascar is a completely different business structure than the NFL (i.e. they own the whole show) so it is not an equal comparison of the behaviors of the participants.

I can at least be proud that these discussions are happening because as coach Popavich said a couple of days ago. Unless there is discomfort, nothing will change.

 

If you choose to differentiate on which side or the other may or may not be a "Patriot", I think it is fairly safe to say which side the majority would come in on. And while you defend folks for exercising there first amendment rights, others may view it as abusing them. And lets not forget how all of this got started, by a guy choosing to take a knee during our National Anthem while wearing socks that depicted cops as pigs. Nice to see you defending that. But your right, it is your right to do so. 

[King237]

Received this today and was not aware of this rule in the book:

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[rails]

King237,

That is intereting to see, if it is an actual document, sad that it even had to be put in writing. Now that I see it is, it makes me question the literacy on the sidelines. 

[skipperf]

58 minutes ago, rails said:

If you choose to differentiate on which side or the other may or may not be a "Patriot", I think it is fairly safe to say which side the majority would come in on. And while you defend folks for exercising there first amendment rights, others may view it as abusing them. And lets not forget how all of this got started, by a guy choosing to take a knee during our National Anthem while wearing socks that depicted cops as pigs. Nice to see you defending that. But your right, it is your right to do so. 

I was not aware of the socks so I looked it up. Your statement "a guy choosing to take a knee during our National Anthem while wearing socks that depicted cops as pigs." just doesn't stand up..If that is the impetus for your anger, then maybe You should look it up. I can only find the socks at practice. http://time.com/4476725/colin-kaepernick-socks-police-pigs/ . . Doesn't change how I feel and probably same for you. Just saying.

 

[skipperf]

1 hour ago, King237 said:

Received this today and was not aware of this rule in the book:

e

 

 

 

Google can be your friend. It is in an operations manual, not the rule book. http://time.com/4955704/nfl-league-rulebook-a62-63-national-anthem-rule/

[rails]

Ok, fair enough, if you choose to condon the fact that he only wore them at "practice". Nice to see you defend that as well. His narrative is all the same.  And as for being angry, your statement couldn't be further from the truth. I am one of the more jovial people you would ever meet. And the fact of the matter is, what those individuals are doing has no reflection on me. I just find it extremly disheartening to watch it all take place. Much the same as In found in your original post that you would "probably" stand for the National Anthem after your discloser of your service to this fine country. 

Glad I was able to attend Speedfest this past weekend and witness, while standing, the wonderful innvocation by Mr. Rodney, and the beautiful rendition of our National Anthem by the  young lady that sang it. 

[ffmedic42]

36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem

• US Code
• Notes

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(a)Designation.—

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b)Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1)when the flag is displayed—

(A)

individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

(B)

members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

(C)

all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and

(2)

when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

(Pub. L. 105–225, Aug. 12, 1998, 112 Stat. 1263; Pub. L. 110–417, [div. A], title V, § 595, Oct. 14, 2008, 122 Stat. 4475.)

 This should end all argument on this subject.

[NickHolt]

52 minutes ago, ffmedic42 said:

 This should end all argument on this subject.

It won't... This subject has hit a nerve all across the country... indeed, the world.

[HiTech]

 ..If the national anthem is going to be an avenue for your  grievance  you show you don't care what the anthem stands for and  what the country stands .for .. what has actually happened  this woke a lot of folks up  to what is really going on , the destruction of the values the country was built on what made this country  the one every one wants to live in .  .....if the president looks around as it is said .then he needs a slap on the hand as I do sometimes for I have found myself looking around at others who have joined in giving respect during our national anthem and I bet many others have done the same even navy boys..but he or   I will never disrespect our flag in such a manner  as has been done .........as for nascar don't think for one second politics don't have a play .. ill thank the navy guy for his service ..  Aaron Rogers has a point but the camera man has to do his job  .. so many are  missing the point  YOU don't do a protest during the anthem any kind for any reason

[skipperf]

So at the Packers vs. Bears game the NFL disrespected the flag as it often does.

 U.S. Code Title 4 Chapter 1 § 8 - Respect for flag

(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.

 

So is it really about the protest itself, or what is being protested?

[skipperf]

I truly believe we have more in common than we are different. We love America, Texas, our families. We try to act in ways that make others proud to associate with us. We love stock car racing, etc. It is a shame that our President doesn't want us to remember that we are a lot alike. He consistently looks for ways to keep us devisive. Regardless of what he claims, he doesn't act like a good Christian.  Just sayin.

[HiTech]

 

When you point out the flag should it not be draped over a casket that rule should apply would it not ..then many many lost lives who fought for our flag  our your country have been wronged by those who drape it over to honor their service  along with police fire men and even our gone but not forgotten  past presidents ...

[NickHolt]

This has nothing to do with who was a good president and who was not a good president. This has to do with respecting (or dis-respecting) the flag that so many fought for, died for, were injured for and served under. Let's keep the out and out politics out of it if possible.

Thanks. 

[skipperf]

On 9/29/2017 at 4:44 AM, HiTech said:

 

When you point out the flag should it not be draped over a casket that rule should apply would it not ..then many many lost lives who fought for our flag  our your country have been wronged by those who drape it over to honor their service  along with police fire men and even our gone but not forgotten  past presidents ...

?... Here is the flag code. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/chapter-1   Whatever question you are asking can be answered there. I did not point out anything to do with caskets. And yes I'd share a Coke with you.

Coming to Tx in a couple of weeks and was looking forward to making it out to CBS, Oh Well. 

In my first post I left an incomplete thought. I should have said I was a U.S. Navy veteran (FF 1082, DD 977) and I do not feel the least bit of disrespect by the athletes protest. Quite the contrary. As an enlistee I took an oath to defend the constitution. I believe that is what I am doing by commenting on this topic.