Grass-roots efforts to bring SAS back to life under way

[j.j.&s.racing]

my kid has always been in the pits at sas..they have young kids racing at 5 flags .in late models. yall need to go to other states to learn about race tracks.for some reason texas doesn't like racing very much.

[JamesHigdon]

Nick; is it San Antonio having a track, San Antonio Speedway being a track, the investors ideas of what a track needs or something else that's causing the issue? Tracks operate all over the country making money, why has the unanimous conclusion been reached San Antonio can't have a track that makes money? WI has dozens of tracks packed into an area much smaller than TX, why can they do it and we can't? Is it possible the idea of what a track has been vs what it needs to be in the future is flawed? Is it possible the ideas proposed to those investors need to be updated? Many of us are tired of hearing why it won't work, we'd like to figure out how to make it work. Negativity without proposing a solution is useless for the younger generations that want their kids to grow up around racing, how do we make tracks work in Texas? People trying to make something work can't be hamstrung by those that say it's impossible, they can take the advice but if everyone listened to those who said it can't be done then nothing would ever happen.

 

The track is cheaper now than it's been in a decade, the city is more pliable than they've been in a decade and the economy is better than it's been in a decade...why can't things work now that didnt work a decade ago?

[NickHolt]

Telling the truth in the business world is far more productive than wishful thinking, in my opinion anyway.

 

And your suggestion that I have not proposed solutions is totally baseless. I've worked closely with at least three well-heeled investors and investor groups including one that I worked with for over a year investing hundreds of hours and several thousand dollars of personal funds in the process. This particular potential investor provided me with a credit card and made me a signatory on his Texas South Motorsports bank account. One of my tasks was to lease a large warehouse with office space and purchase office equipment to support the project.

 

Sound positive enough for you, sir?

 

With other investors and an investor group, I donated hundreds of unpaid hours to get help make the SAS rebirth a reality. How much is your time worth, FSAERacer?

 

I share this because you seem to think investors will blindly follow someone's well-intentioned dream when nothing could be further from the truth. But I encourage you to continue to follow your dream for a revived SAS. Perhaps you're the person who can pull this off. I, and a whole bunch of other racers, certainly hope so!

 

Nick

 

[JamesHigdon]

As far as SAS is concerned my time is free; I've made it very clear I have no intentions of making money off this venture now nor in the future. I didn't say you haven't proposed solutions but my questions are as clear as day; why not SAS and why not now?

 

I've never asked anyone to blindly follow me anywhere; I was contacted by an investor and decided to help, he's still interested and is gathering up the money he hopes will push the project to success. I have proposed solutions for issues, I have worked to find solutions to the water, sewage and electrical issues with SAS but I have never asked anyone for a check or a credit card.

 

Someone in this thread said Dickerson decided SAS wasn't worth the time and to my knowledge that isn't how things worked. Dickerson made an offer for SAS and it was refused, that was the end of his involvement in '07. SAS is now CHEAPER (by 1/3) than the offer he made in '07 and has more opportunities for longterm viability than it ever had in '07.

 

You and I do agree 100% on one very important matter; SAS doesn't survive as a circle track alone. SAS needs to draw in numerous different automotive, educational, entertainment and community events to survive in the future. SAS can't be a circle track to survive in the longterm, it must be a multi-event/multi-use facility that fits a variety of needs. My question is when numbers where run where they run factoring in 2,500 fans a night for 10-12 races a season and a few special events or where they run using SAS to its full potential?

 

Tracks do succeed in this country; people in San Antonio are no poorer, dumber nor offered more entertainment options than other places so how do we make this work?

 

James Higdon

[NickHolt]

James,

 

Just to set the record straight, the credit card was not for my personal use. It simply enabled me to purchase stuff for Texas South Motorsports, the company he was forming to either rebuild SAS or build a completely new multipurpose motorsport facility.

 

And just so we're clear on this matter, he never paid me any money whatsoever, although he did take me to lunch a few times to discuss progress and make decisions, etc. And he made it clear that if and when Texas South Motorsports legally established and work was actually underway, that I would likely become a key employee. And I did keep track of the hours I worked and the expenses I incurred since he suggested that I do so.

 

Just like you, my motives were to see the track in operation once again and not for personal financial gain. And just like you, I invite any potential investor to contact me to see if I can help get the ball rolling.

 

Finally, you are not correct in your Dickerson statement. Terry made the offers to Ms. Reeh well before the infrastructure was basically condemned by the city. In fact, the track was fully operational at the time the offers were made to Ms. Reeh. It wasn't until the city inspectors came out and condemned much of the infrastructure that Terry decided to close the gates. I can assure you that I was actually present and actually wrote the offers so I know this is how it all came down.

 

Thanks.

[JamesHigdon]

I'm not trying to offend you, I'm simply trying to dissuade anyone from thinking I intend for them to "blindly follow" me. I have nothing to gain from being blindly folllwed; I'm simply trying to help. Let's get down to the brass tacks; do you think asphalt racing works in San Antonio? If not; why and is it in your opinion terminal or can ideas be put in place to make it work? I ask this question not to be combative but to really get to the bottom of the proposals that have failed. Has the track been proposed as a multi-use facility, has there been a plan put in place to use it 2-3 nights a week for different purposes and how creative have people been with their ideas?

This thread was started based upon an effort being made to gather funding for a grass-roots effort at SAS and to be honest it has cooled a few people off to being involved with the effort hence my spirited response. I think we can both agree negativity on social media helps no-one but in this particular case there is a lot of it around.

Terry's offers on SAS weren't made during the time period it was being brought in San Antonio's ETJ? I was under the impression from conversations I'd had with different folks that Terry's offers all came during the period the city was actively going after SAS and much of the area was under threat of residential development? If this isn't the case then that is a much different situation then what I was informed of.

Again, the track is as cheap now as it's ever been and the owners are as willing and eager to sell as they've ever been so now that the area has settled down and the price has dropped do any of these proposals work again for anyone involved?

[Bobby]

I see Jame's post as mainly being about - What is it about this particular situation that makes it unworkable? As a peanut gallery observer, I've had that question too. It would seem to boil down to either legal issues with the city (solve-able, or not), and/or financial ones.

 

And on the financial side I have to wonder -Is the property valued correctly relative to one which doesn't have the liabilities of this one? While at first glance it appears to be a workable race track, the liabilities still need to be valued as liabilities (as opposed to neutrals).

 

(Speaking rhetorically, not in need of an answer)

[JamesHigdon]

Bobby; that is much of what I'm trying to get to while attempting to also deal with many of the issues that come up. I simply refuse to believe numerous states can support a half dozen or more asphalt tracks and Texas can't support one; there has to be a why.

[toyotatim]

A lot of time if people keep saying something people start believing it. Entrepreneur's are used to everyone saying it wont work. They even said Donald Trump could not get there until late in the evening on election night. He was the only one who believed it, the rest of them could not be found around midnight, Hilary was long gone........

 

Again, how long has it been since someone owned a racetrack around here for a living? Not run one, but owned one? Renting it or running it gives you too many outs when the going gets tough, like walk out. If your wife, kids and dog depend on you making it work, chances are you are going to make it work.

[MikeReininger]

Bobby; that is much of what I'm trying to get to while attempting to also deal with many of the issues that come up. I simply refuse to believe numerous states can support a half dozen or more asphalt tracks and Texas can't support one; there has to be a why.

 

I think your Dickerson recollection is partially correct. He did make an offer Ms. Reeh, and they allegedly had a handshake agreement. The kids killed that deal wanting a ton more. So the purchase was out. Then later in 07, Terry called a meeting after the first race I think. A lot of us met at the track and he informed us he was closing it due to the city piling on violations doubling the previous amount. According to Terry they almost had him arrested at the courthouse. He said a few more things I won't repeat on here lol. Pretty sure the city just wanted it shut down. So, that segues into the "why" San Antonio has problems with racing. The politicians in SA could give a rats A$$ about racing. Maybe if it were SAS Flea Market it would get some support. I'm willing to bet those other tracks have some support from their local city government. Or at least they are not hell bent on shutting them down.

[Josh42]

Couple of things to look at when you compare states to Texas. When you mention states that can support half a dozen or more asphalt tracks, which states are you referring to? A state like Wisconsin which I think was mentioned earlier, what is their asphalt to dirt track ratio? I might be going the wrong way here but lets look at Texas back in the late 90's when racing was good across the state the ratio was 21 dirt : 6 asphalt, in 2010 it was 15:3, and now your 13:0. As the asphalt tracks closed racers either conformed and went dirt racing or just held onto their cars hoping a track would reopen.

[rebelracewriter]

 

Tracks operate all over the country making money, why has the unanimous conclusion been reached San Antonio can't have a track that makes money? WI has dozens of tracks packed into an area much smaller than TX, why can they do it and we can't?

As someone who was born/raised in the midwest, my answer to "why" is simple......It's a whole different mentality up there when it comes to racing....PERIOD!.....Now the "why" to that is a question for Sigmund, not I....I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express lately.

 

As to being financially stable....5 of the tracks(2 paved, 2 dirt, 1 drag strip) I grew up going to regularly are closed(I had about 13 within an hour and a half drive)....Another switched from asphalt to dirt two years ago.....So I wouldn't go under the premise that everything is rosy in racing land up north.

 

I could go into a big long spiel about everything, but it's Monday and I just don't have it in me right now.

[nracer81]

Rebel is right about the mentality of racing up north. Starting this weekend I am visiting two tracks up north and one in Oklahoma and I will see if there is a point where there might be a change. Also SAS will need to find a sister track like 37 to cross promote and may run similar classes to your sister track helps fans follow the classes easier also.

[rails]

Racing up north is a form of religion. And it often has the support of not only the community, but the local politicians as well. And many of those tracks are built right in town as also. Take Southern Iowa Speedway, half mile dirt, racing on Wednesday nights. And Knoxville 30 miles down the road, of course Knoxville is Knoxville. Racing all the time there. But both of these tracks are right in the middle of town, as are many others throughout the midwest region. Slinger sits on the edge of town, racing on Sunday nights I believe.

 

But there has to be some remedy to be able to support at least a couple of asphalt tracks in this state. I am not in the know to know what went on at HMP. But it seems that maybe a family split could have done it in. Because it was doing very well for awhile with the Fiesta sponsorship, and good car counts. The trucks and modifieds especially were putting on fantastic shows.

[JamesHigdon]

Mike; your understanding of the situation is the same as mine and that is one of the key factors that has changed. Without getting into detail the dynamic has changed within the ownership of the property; I suspect the next reasonable offer owns the track. Beyond that, the city and SWISD have acknowledged there is value to the track and have made mention of wanting to use it in the future. If the new owner of the track involved SWISD as well as some of the other school districts offering the facility for educational events and even involved UTSA I assure you things would go MUCH smoother with the city. UTSA has a strong mechanical engineering program and I know they would jump at an opportunity to have SAS for testing purposes.

[JamesHigdon]

In relation to racing in other places vs Texas I agree racing is more ingrained in the Midwest, Northeast and Southeast than it is here but that doesn't mean it can't become a part of the landscape here too. No track operator in this area has run a track as part of the community; it's always been for the racing community. San Antonio didn't have a hockey or a soccer team until recently and both of those teams are being integrated into the fabric of the community; it just takes time and proper management. Run "San Antonio vs the country" races, have kids get in free in their football jersey nights, setup the facility where other types of racing can happen there and involve different special interest groups (fire fighters get in free nights and bring an A report card to get in at a discount nights) and so forth and see what happens.

 

Nothing exists successfully until someone makes an intelligent effort then it does. San Antonio is a tourist destination with numerous professional sports teams that has hosted a World's Fair, none of that was a guaranteed success and still people tried and it worked.

[rebelracewriter]

 

San Antonio didn't have a hockey or a soccer team until recently

Actually James SA has had a hockey team(s) for quite some time.....First the Iguanas, now the Rampage....Here's a little known fact, ..at one time several years ago(not sure if currently) Texas had MORE semi-pro hockey teams than all of Canada combined...

 

 

involve different special interest groups (fire fighters get in free nights and bring an A report card to get in at a discount nights) and so forth and see what happens.

 

I've been preaching that for a loooooong time, falling upon deaf ears.....Heaven forbid they give away free tickets....I guess empty seats buy concessions/souvenirs?......A very WISE old promoter once told me....."The most expensive seat at a track, is an empty one"

[JamesHigdon]

Reb; I meant in a more "grand scheme" of things way hockey hasn't been around here for long and now the games are relatively well attended.

 

As far as promotions; your guy and I must have read the same book...NASCAR must have a different one?

[rebelracewriter]

 

now the games are relatively well attended.

Dollar beer night always is packed....LOL

 

 

NASCAR must have a different one?

Don't get me started.....LMAO

[JamesHigdon]

I doubt they're having dollar beer night because it looses money! Look at what the Rampage or the Missions do; its a gimmick every game and two on Fridays.

 

Tonight is "free picture of your kid in a race car night" (put it in the track photographers contract they have spend one night doing pictures of kids and post them online for free), next week is "$1 beer night" (get it sponsored by a beer company) and in two weeks it's a fireworks show (put on by a fireworks company you let have a sign for "free").

 

Have a clown, have a playground and turn it into a damned show!

[mrtexasfreedom]

I want to chime in on this discussion because I hear passionate voices who are enthusiastic about building a scene. Perhaps I can contribute some ideas that might assist in that effort regarding bolt-on activities for youth at the racetrack.

 

• Drone Racing- These folks are always looking for wide-open spaces where they can set up a drone racing course and expose more people to their sport. They had a great show at Maker's Faire Austin 2017 and may be interested setting up courses for exhibition and participation at a resurrected SAS.
• Power Tool Drag Racing- This is real easy to produce and if it's a consistent activity, attendees will catch on and bring their own power tool dragsters to compete.
• Free RC off-road race track- Like the above activities, kids can either bring their own racers or enjoy watching people race their cars on a cool purpose-built remote-control race car course. This is cheap to produce and can host actual races by local RC car clubs.

 

These ideas offer kids the opportunity to participate in an activity, which is what is keeping them on the couch playing minecraft. Kids these days aren't comfortable with spectator sports and want to be engaged by activities where they have agency. These three suggestions shouldn't be implemented at a stock car race track as the 'halftime show.' They need to be going on during the races somewhere on the grounds of the raceway facility.

 

I do hope SAS can be jumpstarted. I was saddened when I read the other day that Thunderhill Raceway will be permanently closed. Was glad to have attended the final race of the 2016 season which turned out to be the final race of the track.

[JamesHigdon]

I like the above ideas; ANYTHING different that draws people out is good. The RC track idea especially strikes me as something that could catch-on and it cost the track nothing other than a little space and some labor to make the track.

[Josh42]

The RC Car thing is a great idea. Go to any NHRA event and walk by the Traxxas display. They have trucks constantly going and the place is always packed with kids. During pro qualifying it thins out a little bit but as soon as they are done the line is long again. The track could invest in some RTR trucks and have them where the kids can come drive them. Heck Traxxas is a Texas based company and has been big in the NHRA the past few years maybe someone contact them and you might be able to get something out of the deal.

[NickHolt]

Awesome ideas! Whoever steps up to re-build SAS needs to refer to this thread frequently!

[scotty9]

RC racing is definitely a good idea. One of my son's raced them a few year back and some people spend a fortune on these things.I thought I spent alot getting him started ( nitro buggy). Some have enclosed trailers​ with ac , shop built inside the trailer , like a full racing operation, but that's the upper level. They also had multiple classes for kids, was cool to see them having fun and some taking it pretty serious. Another suggestion. A friend of mine has a food truck. (I don't know how much it takes to run concession stands and if there is any profit to them) , food trucks are invited to come to events with a variety of different foods instead of the facility dealing with the concessions. Don't know if it would work in Texas but it works where he lives. Always good to hear of a track possibly opening it's gates. All we can do is PRAY.