Thinking about the problems with short tracks.

[JamesHigdon]

So I'm sitting here watching old clips from "Thunder" on ESPN and it clicks; why short track racing is in so much trouble. You figure there's a limited pool of money to be spent on racing in America, I would venture to say the vast majority of the "new" money in American racing tracks over the past 20 years has gone to mega tracks that now can't fill their stands. Some jerk company spends hundreds of millions to build a 1.5 mile track in the middle of a place that can't keep local tracks open? If the money just Texans spent at Texas Motor Speedway was distributed amougst local tracks how much difference would that make to them? As an example if the money Coca Cola spent on NASCAR advertising was distributed amongst local track advertising instead that would make a huge difference. NASCAR used to run at the local tracks, they used to support the local tracks and Friday/Saturday nights where for the local tracks...maybe NASCAR is the primary problem with local tracks?

[King237]

I've always believed that the reason for the spike in attendance during the 1990's was due to Nascar marketing itself right into a "fad" with no sustainability. It was cool to go and be seen at a track to impress your friends with your "hipness" and talk about it at work. As time wore on and the advent of the internet (which I believe soured the attendance) and other time killers, options, etc etc, racing has fallen off the radar for most UNLESS you were there before, during, and after all of the other distractions. True fans have passion and focus on that. David Mackey used to talk about passionate racers 20 years ago...I recall it vividly. Fans need to be that way too.

[rebelracewriter]

NA$CAR---problems......There's your answer.....Everything starts at the top!

[racer61]

Didint a company like dr.pepper or coke or someone spend a ton to build a first class asphalt track in dodge city? I dont remeber the specifics but its now been plowed under and is a dirt track last i heard.

Toyota picked up the tab for Irwindale speedway for a few years. Spent a good amount with good payout, still it failed. Toyota got out and the is closed or is getting ready to.

 

I understand your point but money isnt the reason for the decline in short track racing. The problem is an evolution in the sport. People dont come to race for fun, its about success. Dont get me wrong, we all want to win, but when win at any cost is the new mentality so jr. can grow up to be the next Jeff Gordon then what once was a great saturday night tradition has turned into a very expensive soap opera. Think about it, no one watches Nascar for the great side by side racing, they watch for the wrecks and the drama. Its a change in the mentality of people. I doubt there is a fix.

[JamesHigdon]

I'm not sure about racing now being for success now vs fun before being the problem is exactly the way you describe. In the 50's or 60's a local racer in many areas could contribute to their take-home pay or make a living racing. Now what's the lowest level you can race at and make a living or is there even one? I can't think of any guys in NASCAR's top 3 series that didn't come up racing at their parents expense.

 

A middle-class person that starts racing in a bomber class when they get their first job and works their way up the ranks will never make it to NASCAR and will never support themselves let alone a family racing. Racing competitively in nearly any class has gotten so expensive it is squarely out of the range anyone lower than the upper middle-class.

 

"Making it" in racing doesn't have to be the objective but if anyone but those making over the national median household income can't race then you eliminate many potential racers and even more potential fans.

 

I don't think it's any coincidence that the biggest class at CTS as of recent has been the cheapest full-bodied class.

 

NASCAR made it clear with their charter system who they want racing. It wasn't but a decade ago you would still see small teams at cup races and have some sort of a chance.

 

Think about this for a minute, what if the premier class at a track was something like a GrandStock and the rules where enforced with an iron fist. What if you could put together a competitive car for $5k and race it for that much a season but instead of the big purse being for 10 latemodels it was for 30-40 grandstocks? Cup cars haven't always cost $500k, 60 years ago you could take a 5 year old daily driver and prep then race it and THAT was the premier class. Would you rather watch 10 latemodels of which 5 have a real shot at winning or 40 grandstocks of which 30 could actually win? Would a cup race be more fun to watch if any of the 40 cars could actually win?

 

Stock car racing started as the "any mans" kind of racing, it was most successful when it was that. The more it becomes a past time for the wealthy the less it becomes about the racing the more it becomes about the drama. If racing is so expensive that very few can actually win the drama and crashing is all that's left.

 

Make stock-car racing about anyone being able to take a car off the street and race it again and see what happens to its populairty.

[Alloutpc17]

Problem is how the cars are too expensive to race or even own. Super stocks and street stock used to affordable class to most. If you had $6000 in your car you could do top 10 no problem. Now, it's expensive late model chassis', shocks, ignition, bodies, etc to even be on the lead lap. Crate engines are NOT cheap. After buying for $5500 with cheap Mexico parts then taking it to a builder to put their better parts in, your at $12,000. A true factory crate will get you lapped. Short tracks are supposed to have affordable racing. I had heard from many locals Say they can't afford a late model when they do have the money. A sport mod when they started was $5500 for a fast car and $3000 for a decent one. Now it's $20,000 for a stock frame race car. That's the main issue. Short tracks are changing rules that most can't afford after years of racing. Transponders, radios, Hans, etc.

[HiTech]

your right I use to spend more money at the bar in one night it was cheaper to go racing and many drinkers figured that OUT they put down the bottle for a toggle switch ..now its cheaper to go to the bar.in the 80s and 90s we figured dollar for dollar just what if cost to race for the season .either we had a great season and broke even and times made money or we lost very little and marked it up to having fun and was still cheaper than the bar ...not anymore ..

[Alloutpc17]

When manufacturers come out with new stuff or better stuff, the tracks allow it for the racer with pockets of money. So basically your catering to the handful of guys with money instead of the ones that barely make it as it is and there are way more of racers with low budgets. That creates less cars because those low budget guys don't want to come out to get lapped. The Allison legacy series is probably the best class to run in by far. I ran in it and spent $100 at the most each race and never bought parts. Why allow $4000 shock packages in late models? Why allow only a ABC approved body when the track isn't sanctioned? Makes no sense to allow high dollar parts that most can't replace once damaged. To me, I think the do it so others can go run other tracks and still be competitive which is nonsense. You want cars at your track, not rules so the can go run other tracks. If some tracks don't realize that cost is the #1 problem, then they can suffer and eat the money invested. This isn't NASCAR or the snowball every race. Keep cost down on parts in the rules and people will bring more cars out. Everyone knows racing is expensive but if you can cut costs, you will loose less cars. Its not rocket science. And if you look at the cost of a sport mod, late model, super stock, the purse percentage doesn't add up. So spend $20,000 on a good Street stock to win $750? Doesn't add up.

[Alloutpc17]

To me, tracks are afraid to loose the guy or teams with money vs the others on a budget. All in all, if the money guy doesn't show up, does it really matter? No. Who cares? He spends the same amount at the gate then the poor guy. I see tracks trying to make the money guy happy or please them more than anything when it really doesn't hurt them at all if they don't come to race.

[j.j.&s.racing]

most pay outs have not gone up in 10 years

[TheCloser]

Some complain about the cost of racing and when someone tries to do something to help lower that cost they get very little support.

 

Double edged sword.

[rebelracewriter]

Jason, for once you and I agree, in principle....Someone please check for flying pigs or if the moon is really made of cheese...LOL

 

All joking aside....Yes some track compliance issues make racing expensive(tire/body rules, transponder, raceciever)....Then certainly track purses haven't changed to equate to racing costs, but on the other hand track overhead has risen too(insurance, utilities and safety crews mainly)....I doubt we'll ever see a track open its books to show us their P&L statement, so we can take their word or find a new hobby....which if we all remember, is what local racing is supposed to be...

 

In a lot of cases it's the "HAVES" in racing wanting better, faster, more expensive trick things for their class.....Plus instead of moving forward to a faster class, some will try to move the whole class forward and the "Have-nots" will get tired being outspent instead of just outraced......Racers can be, and have always been, their own worst enemy.....I'm sure the Villarreal brothers never envisioned where the Limited Modified class has gone since they built the first ones in Houston 20-some years ago.

 

Then there's the sanctioning bodies, the worst thing IMCA ever did was raise the claim cost AND add the damn swap option.....When's the last time there was a motor claim in Texas?.....I sure can't remember any for at least 10 years.....Carbs and shocks, yes, but not motors.....Where have motor costs gone since then----through the roof!

 

James, as for CTS have you seen the car count in Grand Stock lately?.....At one time they and Super Street Stocks had the most cars....Now theyre surpassed by Trucks, Modifieds.....certainly not inexpensive classes.

 

In my 45 years of being around racing I've seen classes come, go and get reborn in a different morphed configuration/rules packages.....It's used to be all just the cyclical way of racing.....Now days I'm not so sure.

 

I said this years ago.....In an area(say Austin) there's only so many sponsor dollars available for local racing.....The more classes there are, the more that pool of money gets split up or depleted totally......Now, throw in the new dirt track in Paige, that draws somewhat from Austin too, and that money gets split even more....Too many cooks spoil the broth or in this case, too many classes spoil the car counts.

[Alloutpc17]

Correct Reb, I haven't heard of or seen a motor claim in years. That's why it's gets out of hand with engines. Raise the claim cost and no one will claim so then others build a $20,000 engine.

[Alloutpc17]

I definitely don't know everyone but judging from racing a dirt modified, asphalt super stocks, late models here and there, it is severely difficult to compete. Tracks say crate motors cut costs. Well, we all know, as racers, that's BS. I personally know a few guys who have $12,000 or more in their crate. They told me a factory crate doesn't cut it. An ABC body is like $2500 or more. Why? Just why? What's the reasoning behind high end parts that are mandatory without being sanctioned? Then dirt mods went to quick changes. There's $3000. This sport has become the rich man's sport and for the young kids to start a NASCAR career with endless funds.

[JamesHigdon]

So what would be the harm in a local track flipping the script for a few races? Make it $500 to win a front-runner or grand-stock race with ok pay-outs through the field and see if any more cars show up?

 

MAYBE the fix for this issue is right at our fingertips? I doubt many of the guys racing late-models are materially effected by the purse, certainly the guys running up front aren't? Seems like it is the little guys that need the money more?

 

THIS would be counter what NASCAR does and counter to their way of doing business, spread the money around at the bottom and see if it benefits the whole picture?

[HiTech]

Payouts have always been a problem with me ..lets say 1000 to win then 750 .then 400 then 100 .100 100 and so on other words the top three take the lion share ..

[Bobby]

Doing anything for "a few races" generally has little effect on an outcome. By the time the news that a track is doing something different filters down to the people who have long since divorced themselves from the sport, and they have reoriented their budgets and reacted, the track has concluded "that was a waste, we'll never do that again".

 

At a minimum, any changes have to be proceeded by a long in advance and thorough publicity campaign. In addition, the track has to be trusted by racers not to leave them high and dry if they do respond - the changes have to be for a guaranteed duration. For example, how is that new pavement stock car class working for the person or two who abandoned their old cars and went to a totally different concept?

[arob]

I'm sure that every track promoter would like to pay more.But the cost of operating a track never goes down. Pit pass, registration and spectator prices have to be done not to out price yourself. As for say concerts, seperate from the races, they can make money if you get the right entertainment which costs more bucks.Of all the acts STS had that I saw only the Tejas Brothers generated any big interest.(I missed Mark McKinney). And there was some good bands booked.The other risk is the outdoor venue.Rain ruins most outdoor concerts. I don't know what the answer is. I know the IceRays hockey team works hard getting out in the community selling the product. And they have the highest attendance in the league two years in a row (teams in Michigan,Penn. Dakotas,Texas and Alaska to name afew). They have booths at most civic events like Best of the Best and others. They visit schools , hospitals , base and other things.Don't see why that couldn't be done with racers and their cars.

[Alloutpc17]

Remember, this is local short track racing. Not cup racing. No one at local short tracks race full time on a regular season. Most guys and girls only get sponsered for fuel and tires. Not chassis, bodies, shocks, engines, etc. Unless you own a huge company and put your whole car on a write off. There is only around 4 teams at the most at any track with deep pockets vs the others that amounts to around 50 teams with limited funds. If I ran a track, we would be running the 1998-2001 rules. Updates are OK on chassis but none of this $2500 bodies, $4000 shocks, $20,000 engines. Because I gotta figure who has that kind of money that anyone can compete with? Very very little. Those rich guys can go travel to get what they are looking for which is getting noticed to advance in a bigger series. Ever seen any random guy with limited funds make the snowball derby? I haven't. To buy a decent pro truck will cost $10,000-$18,000. That's ridiculous for a stock frame chassis. Every track is trying to keep up with other tracks that have high end cars. If your not sanctioned, there's no point in having high end cars. Win a championship and get a belt buckle or jacket lol. Makes me wanna get a loan and buy a top notch pro late model to own those things lol.

[toyotatim]

Crate Motors are the best thing that has happened to racing in the last 10 years. $12,000 for a crate is peanuts compared to what was being spent. And I do agree to old rebel, they need to purge some classes. The racing is too diluted now. In a year or two, most of the ones who were purged would rejoin in another class. That would let the available sponsor/purse money to be allocated among a smaller, but more competitive field. Noone ever said that racing was cheap or the racer should even have a chance to break even. If you want to make money, dont count on the purse for it, go sell sell yourself. Pimp your deal to sponsors, lots of cash out there if you go get it.

[thumper]

One thing nobody talked about is the fact most tracks have too many classes that are too similar.This thins out the teams to draw from and dilutes the purse so much everybody looses. The most successful tracks I have been associated with had only 3 or 4 classes on a regular basis. So if you wanted to race you picked one of them. The car counts' were higher and the pay was better. The more cars the better the show. The better the purse V/S the cost of the car also equates to higher car count. And the more cars, the more family, friends and fans because EVERY team has all 3 things. But instead we sell the same old show as 50 years ago, remove the passion and pay much less for it "because". Too many have an attitude and vanity is our biggest enemy. The thing to do is go back and seriously look at the venues that had success and figure out why.

 

Its easy to say what others should do so Heres what I do instead. I have been racing a cheap car for about 40 years and have been able to pay for my racing from the purse. Some call me names and think I should "move up" like that actually means something. I tried it but only found out that is a money funnel in the out box. I even tried to race my cheap car and my "moved up" car so the cheap car would help pay for the other one, then the track got the wise idea to make me buy 2 pit passes because I brought 2 cars. Each pit pass cost $50.So again the product being sold has to pay for being sold. I see a loosing pattern here.

 

Even the once best paying series for my kind of car has become too expensive with too little return to justify being involved. So I now run at South Texas Speedway with the junk I already have just like most of us are doing with that series. When that is gone Im done racing. I bet many have already reached that point.

 

So what I hope for is a promoter that realizes the prize money is best spent on the series that brings the best return as far as the numbers game. It has worked in the past. But its complicated to say the least.

[Alloutpc17]

Those crates are not the best thing that has ever happened. Maybe when they came out but not now a days. Go to a engine builder and ask what the best route to take is. I have been told open motor over and over. They say by the time you get the crate where it needs to be, you could of built an open motor for cheaper with more HP. But some choose a crate for weight reduction which is total BS because they are not true crate engines. Crate builders have even said they are "well massaged". You buy the crate, they tear it apart and put their package of goodies in with machine work. So just because you have locking bolts doesn't mean they are true crates because most are not. So of course your going to be up front with a "crate" engine and a lighter car with a 4 barrel carb. I caught on to that a while back. So it may seem cheap to have but to be competitive you will get ran over with a factory crate. I wish I still had my Allison legacy sooo bad. It was a truly affordable class and tech was very thorough. One thing I can agree with Nick on. I did more work loading it to get to the track then I did at the track. Pump gas fuel, tires lasted many races, motors were super reliable. Dumb move on getting rid of it. I highly regret it.

[Big G Smith]

Those crates are not the best thing that has ever happened. Maybe when they came out but not now a days. Go to a engine builder and ask what the best route to take is. I have been told open motor over and over. They say by the time you get the crate where it needs to be, you could of built an open motor for cheaper with more HP. But some choose a crate for weight reduction which is total BS because they are not true crate engines. Crate builders have even said they are "well massaged". You buy the crate, they tear it apart and put their package of goodies in with machine work. So just because you have locking bolts doesn't mean they are true crates because most are not. So of course your going to be up front with a "crate" engine and a lighter car with a 4 barrel carb. I caught on to that a while back. So it may seem cheap to have but to be competitive you will get ran over with a factory crate. I wish I still had my Allison legacy sooo bad. It was a truly affordable class and tech was very thorough. One thing I can agree with Nick on. I did more work loading it to get to the track then I did at the track. Pump gas fuel, tires lasted many races, motors were super reliable. Dumb move on getting rid of it. I highly regret it.

Why don't you buy another one?

[Alloutpc17]

Would love too. I actually might next year. I just can't compete with those 602 crates with weight brakes and they technically can't be torn down if they have locking bolts. So if you have a crate that's been heavily modified, your safe. How do you compete with a crate that's not a true crate with a lighter car? You can't. I have seen crates internally with my own eyes and they were no where near what they should be. Seen dyno sheets, part #, etc. It definitely opened up my eyes and made sense. Best way to manipulate the rules is with a crate engine that has plenty of excessive work done.

[scotty9]

I like the engine claim rule, but teams with deep pockets would just race some place other than the track with the claimer rules. I have never been one with deep pockets, but I have been blessed with the opportunity to drive for other people that have poured their money and hard work into the car . I asked my dad , who has raced everything on dirt and asphalt to boats, and top alcohol dragsters what he thought about crate engines. A no go with him, to easy to hide a high dollar cheater motor. He likes the idea of open motor , with limts/rules a $1000.00 claimer and a tech man that knows what they are inspecting and not afraid to DQ if needed.( no track favorite) . High dollar cars has put alot of talented and gifted drivers that didn't have the financial backing in the grandstands,I don't have the answer to bring racing back to the way it was, but my autozone motor I had in my very first race car lasted 2 seasons, 9th in points my rookie year and had $1200.00 invested in it. That was in the mid 90s and at that time was paid $25.00 for finishing 10th or lower, pay haven't changed much , but cost of the cars is way out of hand. Still trying to put mine back together on a very tight budget with ( crate engine that HAS NOT been opened). Sponsor needed (lol)