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You think you're frustrated now, just wait until you've been swinging the sticks for a while.

 

Also I might suggest a good nights sleep and a pot of coffee before tackling the golf rule book

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In over 5 years nobody has asked the question regarding monoballs.

Totally irrelevant!

Nobody has been caught with them.

Totally irrelevant!

Yes they have been part of our regular inspections.

The car was purchased out of state with Monoballs in place. Every STXSSS event they were there. If they have been part of regular inspection, how were they missed? If you guys hadn’t dropped the ball then, this issue would never have happened!

I get questions all the time regarding gray areas and when I clarify them and if it needs to be I will put them in red in the rules so everyone can see them. My tech crew for this event Chris Satoff, Chuck Barber, and Bruce Beddoe all agreed that a monoball, which is obviously to replace a bushing, is a bearing.

(4) people hardly makes a consensus for the rest of the world. Just because (4) people are wrong doesn’t mean the people that manufacture and sell the parts are wrong.

I agree with them as well as did several drivers after the race once they heard.

When you get your butt handed to you...naturally you would agree (duh).

I also referred to a street stock car builder and got the same answer but no need in dragging him into this debate.

Please recall, the rule said ANY BUSHING. It did NOT say “No Monoballs” or “no bearings”. So, the “bearing” arguments are completely irrelevant. The only relevant argument is “Can a monoball be considered a bushing”. Obviously I have proven that it can. Per your rules it was not gray. It was black and white. As for the 44 Limiteds you reference earlier. They have the good fortune of a well thought out IMCA rules. Which state such things as “rubber bushings only” and “no bearings”. In this instance it is clear, Your rules were not.

There is a clear advantage to running them. per your specs you provided, otherwise they would not be on the car. If you can get the same results out of stock bushings well then you didnt prep the car according to the rules.

Sure there is an advantage. However it can be achieved by other means, as Mike explained. Again, Mike purchased the chassis with these parts. It was not built from scratch and custom tailored to STXSSS. The rules were read, and it seemed clear that MONOBALLS fall within the guidelines of ANY BUSHING. Ask yourself, why would he remove the monoballs if the rules state ANY BUSHING and clearly suppliers are selling them as bushings? People do not waste time replacing parts they think are legal. Throw in the fact the car was teched regarding suspension more than once by STXSSS. Why, at this point, would he think there was a problem?

Now if you think that is a gray area and you are interpreting the rules differently then as the rules state in the last sentence of our rule book.

" Please ask questions if you have a gray area before doing it. Any area concerning rules as they are brought up and answered we will clarify and add to the rules in red. We reserve the right to change the rules to keep competition fair for competitors at any time. Any changes will be posted and brought to the attention of all drivers best as possible through normal social media and drivers meeting at the races. "

It didn’t seem gray. It seemed Black and white.

Now we will post a clarification under suspension. Trigg rule: No Monoballs allowed! They will not be considered an aftermarket bushing.

Whatever you call it. It is about the only response I have seen from you I agree with J

Now regarding the steering, the rules state:

Centerlink, all tierods, pitman arm, sway bars, and idler arms must be stock replacement.

You can not run heim joints in place of your stock tierods. Infraction #2. I don't feel this rule needs clarifying at this time, seems to be very straight forward and to the point.

Oh, I can poke holes in this too! Where in your rules is there any definition for “Stock Replacement”? That is a VERY vague term. I can go down to Autozone and buy a part for my Chevy truck, as long as it performs the same function, and bolts in, they call it stock replacement. Regardless if it looks the same as the part that came off. I don’t know the number of times I opened a box and had a part that looked NOTHING like what I was replacing. Many of these “replacement” parts are “universal” in nature and require slight modifications to make them work. So, “stock replacement” is truly vague.

 

So, if it performs the same function...then it is Stock Replacement.

 

Besides that, there are two other arguments:

  1. “Tie Rod” and “Tie Rod END” are two entirely different things. The “tie rod” is the “rod” between the two “tie rod ends”. .Your rules state “stock replacement “tie rods”...it does not state Stock Replacement “tie rod ends”.
  2. Say we have a TIE ROD (let’s call it part “A”), and it threaded to a TIE ROD END (let’s call that part “B”)...and it is bolted to the STEERING ARM (we’ll call that PART “C”).

So, now let’s consider I buy a rod-end style steering kit from Speedway Motors which replaces the TIE ROD ENDS...and it installs with no modifications. Wow, I just performed a “Replacement” of those “stock” TIE ROD ENDS. Since there is no definition is “Stock Replacement” and it is completely left up to reader interpretation, my definition is correct and valid...unless you know something about the English language that I don’t.

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yes I agree about the term stock replacement. A mono ball is a stock replacement part. can it be chevelle .for Camaro. longer, shorter spindle??so to me that is a grey area.is brezinkey heads legal?

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yes I agree about the term stock replacement. A mono ball is a stock replacement part. can it be chevelle .for Camaro. longer, shorter spindle??so to me that is a grey area.is brezinkey heads legal?

if it said "stock replacement" ONLY....THEN SURE. However, the head rules are fairly specific. They even removed Vortec Bowtie heads this year...after i exposed that weakness!

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Great reading here guys

I have no dog in the this as this is my opinion on a public forum.(By the way thanks Nick)

I have read all 4 pages of this thread and haven't heard any viable evidence of quality arguable information until I just read the lengthy post up above this by slidejob bringing up very valuable explainations for said parts that were in question.

You know really nobody wins from these circumstances that took place on the tech pad.

People will have ill feelings towards the series now

The drivers that were DQD will have ill feelings towards the series

Outside people will have ill feelings towards both the series and the driver after reading this or hearing about it

So really nobody wins in this situation.

Everybody has egg on their face

I would spell out those rules clearer on above listed items so this never comes up again

As a reminder this is my opinion after 30 plus years of racing,officiating,etc..

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 07:57 AM

Starting today if anyone wants a question answered or commented on you will post who you are and what team you are with. My time is valuable and I will not be answering every single question or comment unless I know they have a vested interest in the shootout series. Secondly I really dont care if some dont like my answers regarding certain questions. My recommendation go spend 1000 hours a year putting together your own series and countless meetings with sponsors and supporters so you can have about 3 hours on entertainment each month. Thanks for everyones support.

Remember I want your name, car number, engine builder, chassis builder whom ever you are listed with your question otherwise I will simply disregard any question and will eventually have it totally removed.
Slidejob I remembered back in October you pulled this and I posted this message making alot of people happy so here it is once again..

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Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water... LOL

 

If I ever need someone to "bulletproof" our Lone Star Legacy rules, I know who to call.

 

I do enjoy lively rules discussions. I do not enjoy those discussions that degenerate into beating a dead horse until it wakes up.

 

But, since no one seems to be bashing, carry on...

 

Oh, one point that seems to keep coming up is that the offending part(s) had not been caught in tech before. I have served as chief tech for several series and a couple of tracks over the years and I can honestly say that I have looked right at an illegal part without it ever registering as being illegal in my brain. Just because a tech official doesn't see it, doesn't make it legal and certainly is not an endorsement that a given part is or is not legal. Just admitting the truth.

 

I've had guys come up to me years later and ask me why I let this or that part slide in tech.... The answer is that if it had dawned on me that it was illegal when I was looking at it, it never would have slid past.

 

Nick

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I got an idea Slidejob why dont you come to STS on the 28th. I will be happy to give you the microphone and you can plead your case with the other 35 plus street stock drivers. I mean since you have been running those parts for a year like you previously stated and all. Those are the men and women you have been stealing from see if they have a sympathetic shoulder for you. I DARE YOU come on what do you have to lose. I wont even comment afterwards I will roll right into my drivers meeting.

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Oh, one point that seems to keep coming up is that the offending part(s) had not been caught in tech before. I have served as chief tech for several series and a couple of tracks over the years and I can honestly say that I have looked right at an illegal part without it ever registering as being illegal in my brain. Just because a tech official doesn't see it, doesn't make it legal and certainly is not an endorsement that a given part is or is not legal. Just admitting the truth.

 

I've had guys come up to me years later and ask me why I let this or that part slide in tech.... The answer is that if it had dawned on me that it was illegal when I was looking at it, it never would have slid past.

 

Nick

 

Excellent point!

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You use a mic in drivers' meetings Stephan? It's a proven, scientific fact that only 5.4% of all drivers actually hear what's being said in a drivers' meeting no matter whether the speaker can be heard or not. LOL

 

Nick

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fix ur stuff or move on if u can't do that sell u car an let the real racers race because every one is tired of hearing it.

 

Stephan has done more for racing than anybody has for a long time and snap on tools are the best peace out

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About the same I guess when interpreting their own rules apparently.

 

Of course with this kind of rationality you can see how murders walk away unpunished lol.

 

With all the publicity this is getting dont forget everyone Shootout Race #1 at South Texas Speedway March 28th.

 

I will have the last batch of South Texas Nationals Tshirts there to move about 60 shirts left and boy were they popular.

Edited by SouthTxPromotions

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I was thinking the same thing but I had to reread my license to make sure I had salt water license it could easily be mistaken for fresh water you know.

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I will have the last batch of South Texas Nationals Tshirts there to move about 60 shirts left and boy were they popular.

 

Do you still have all sizes? Do you have any youth xsm? Price? THANKS.

 

Daniel Waer

Spectator Currently

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man you are being ill rational just say the truth that the wording needs to be changed and if it looks or sounds like a grey area call tech or its not legal.dont try it. simple.i liked the races.and I applaud your show

Edited by j.j.&s.racing

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I got an idea Slidejob why dont you come to STS on the 28th. I will be happy to give you the microphone and you can plead your case with the other 35 plus street stock drivers. I mean since you have been running those parts for a year like you previously stated and all. Those are the men and women you have been stealing from see if they have a sympathetic shoulder for you. I DARE YOU come on what do you have to lose. I wont even comment afterwards I will roll right into my drivers meeting.

 

For Mike's sake, I assure you I am NOT him...as it appears you may think. Mike wisely moved on already. I encourage Nick to look at the IP info if you desire proof. I am near Houston and if there is a history it will show I have always been near Houston. Mike lives near San Antonio.

 

I feel I have made what points I wanted to make.

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I will have the last batch of South Texas Nationals Tshirts there to move about 60 shirts left and boy were they popular.

 

Do you still have all sizes? Do you have any youth xsm? Price? THANKS.

 

Daniel Waer

Spectator Currently

lg - 3x in the nationals shirt $10. But I do think I have little sizes in 2014 shootout shirts if so I will hook you up as I am using the remaining ones for fan promotions.

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man you are being ill rational just say the truth that the wording needs to be changed and if it looks or sounds like a grey area call tech or it not legal.dont try it. simple.

No I will definetely add some wordage for the 1% ers

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Hey, Stephan! Speaking of shirts..... hint, hint... LOL

 

Nick

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Blue I thought you had a Street Stock? Oh well, ya I learn from these things too so just observe and look at it for the information. I noticed somethings in several posts but this isn't my class so I just kinda keep it within.

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